Murray 14.5 I/C Rider runs rough

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  #1  
Old 05-18-10, 09:58 AM
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Murray 14.5 I/C Rider runs rough

I have an older Murray riding mower in which the name plate has fallen off for the mower but I have the info for the 14.5 hp Briggs motor on it. So, it sets me back a little because I have to search all over to find schematics close to my mower and I have come to the conclusion that I have a 1996 or 1997 as far as I can tell.

Now my story... I have a small lawn care business on the side and this mower has been running just fine. So, a few weeks ago I was mowing a property when I went to the back yard and when I cut on the blades the mower began to run like crap (as if it was missing and bogging down) and just making a lot of racket. So, I shut down the blades and it was still loud so I shut down the motor. When I went to start it back up, a little flame came out of the exhaust and I figured that was my cue to give her some time. So I waited about 5 minutes while I looked under the deck and all to make sure everything looked copacetic and it looked fine. So I tried to start it again... This time it started and ran crappy for a second or two and then it sounded like something (in the deck maybe?) made a sound like it dropped and it cleaned up and started running fine again. So I went to cut the blades back on and it started running like crap again and hasn't stopped running like this ever since.

Now, here is what I have done:

-I checked belts and pulleys in the deck - nothing is hanging up, everything seems fine
-Spark plug looked fine at first and after diag checks it developed a wet, black look so it is new now
-Cleaned and rebuilt the carb, changed filter and fuel lines
-Oil level was good, just dark so I changed the oil
-Tried bypassing the safety switches - no change
-Replaced the battery (diag killed it)
-New fuel w/ a little water remover
-Checked valves, pushrods and piston - all good
-Adjusted valves - were pretty much good to begin with
-Checked for spark - good
-Cleaned up/sanded the coil/armature and gapped it to the .020

That may be it but I feel like I may be missing something. So I have covered a lot of my bases but I have to be missin something. Anybody have a clue???

As of now, she starts but she just putts and stutters like there is a miss or maybe not enough fuel... or spark? In fact, I will take a video and post it on youtube probably today so I can copy the link to it and post that in here so anybody that cares to listen to it can.

Thanks in advance for any help or insight!!

-Patrick
 
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  #2  
Old 05-18-10, 01:12 PM
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Update - -

Engine Numbers: Model - 287707; Type - 0225-01; Code - 9511094B

I try to start it now and it runs for a second, kind of, but shuts off every time. I haven't done anything else besides unplug the PTO switch to see if I could jumper the wires and I don't think I was too successful seeing as how I can't find the exact schematic... I went from yellow to yellow and black to black and it would crank but no start... so I am missing something there that the switch has but it was just another diag. But my camera phone does some kind of .m3u file that youtube does not really like so I couldn't post a succesful video with sound but I may be able to tomorrow with another camera.

So, I am leaning towards the solenoid on the bottom of the fuel bowl because that regulats fuel for anti-backfiring. I had a little bit of a backfiring issue when shutting off the mower since day one and now it seems to be starving for fuel if you ask me... makes sense to me so it may be worth a shot...

Thanks again!
 
  #3  
Old 05-18-10, 06:56 PM
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try disconnecting the kill wire that runs from the coil to the key, usually to right of starter in a single connector. Push a small nail into connector on wire to coil and attach double end alligator clip jumper to it. Hold clip end off metal and see how it runs. If it runs ok it's a safety or key switch problem . To shut it off ground the clip to metal (non moving of course)
 
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Old 05-18-10, 10:00 PM
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So the solenoid on the bowl is working fine because I can hear it and feel it.

Now you may be on to something 38 because I have one single wire going to my coil (besides the spark plug wire) and I unplugged that tonight out of curiosity and it seemed to tgry and run for longer, but not exactly in a smooth way. So tomorrow I will give that a shot. The only thing about that is that I think the connecter that wire goes to is a harness with two wires... I am not positive though, this is off of memory right now. But I will find a way to try something and I'll let you know tomorrow. Thanks!
 
  #5  
Old 05-19-10, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by YorkTrim View Post
So the solenoid on the bowl is working fine because I can hear it and feel it.

Now you may be on to something 38 because I have one single wire going to my coil (besides the spark plug wire) and I unplugged that tonight out of curiosity and it seemed to tgry and run for longer, but not exactly in a smooth way. So tomorrow I will give that a shot. The only thing about that is that I think the connecter that wire goes to is a harness with two wires... I am not positive though, this is off of memory right now. But I will find a way to try something and I'll let you know tomorrow. Thanks!
there will be a double or single connector coming from the stator to charge battery and maybe run lights. It's usually to the left of starter
 
  #6  
Old 05-19-10, 01:53 PM
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Oh yea I know which one you are talking about. You think that would effect how it runs rather than just the charging of the battery?

There is one wire going to the coil too. Is that the kill wire because that has impedance at shut off but not in run. And when I unplug that one it runs just the same and shuts itself off just the same after about 5 seconds... new coil maybe??
 
  #7  
Old 05-19-10, 08:06 PM
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Also, when I do the coil test where I hook the volt meter to the spark plug wire and to a ground and pass the flywheel magnet past the coil I get around 5 volts... Is that way too low or is that just me?? I can't find anything that states a roundabout voltage for it..
 
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Old 05-19-10, 10:50 PM
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Don't do that to your voltmeter...it has the potential to ruin it with a burst of 20,000 volts.

The kill wire should only have impedance to ground with the key switch turned ON. If it does not, it will not start. It should have continuity to ground with the switch OFF.

Set the coil gap to .010" rather than .020".

Is the choke possibly sticking shut? Does it smoke in any way when it's running bad? Does the engine pop at all when running bad, and if so, is the popping out the exhaust or the intake? Does applying the choke help it run longer?
 
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Old 05-21-10, 02:35 AM
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So would that mean that I am getting a low voltage out of the coil?

I will set the gap today once I get a chance but it was at about .010 the first time and I had read some info and set it out to .020 but I'll set it back.

As for the popping, I was getting some, mostly out of the exhaust but it doesn't really seem to do it now. And yes the choke does help it to start for about 5-10 secs. but nothing really when not choked... no sticking.

It was showing about 5 ohms to ground at switch "Off" and just a "1" on the other side of the screen at "Run".

No noticeable spark.
 
  #10  
Old 05-21-10, 01:08 PM
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I mean to say no noticeable smoke but yes a weak spark too...

Coils can weaken without fully goin out can they not? Or do you think my issue is in wiring/ the ignition switch?
 
  #11  
Old 05-22-10, 12:47 AM
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No, your voltmeter can't read the high voltage sent from the coil secondary windings because it happens so fast. If the coil is creating a spark, that should be sufficient.

Try running it with the kill wire unplugged from the coil itself...keeping in mind that you won't be able to shut it off without choking it or unplugging the spark plug wire.
 
  #12  
Old 05-22-10, 12:29 PM
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I unplugged it and the mower does the same thing... sounds like it wants to keep running but it just putts for a couple seconds and dies.
 
  #13  
Old 05-22-10, 10:39 PM
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Check the choke to be sure it is opening after you start it.
 
  #14  
Old 05-23-10, 07:38 AM
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yep it sure is. you don't think it could be a short in the ignition switch since i get five ohms at 'off' and nothing at 'run'?
 
  #15  
Old 05-23-10, 11:47 PM
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No, that is what you should get.

The fact that you added water remover to the gas throws up a flag... did it have water in it? Do both rocker arms move equal amounts up and down when the engine turns, or does one have noticeably less travel to it? This sort of sounds like you may have a dropped valve seat.
 
  #16  
Old 05-24-10, 03:52 PM
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Well I put in a new ignition switch and no change. The rocker arms move the same amount.. both about a half of an inch (spring travel). The more I listen to it, I wanna say it is fuel but it seems to be getting fuel... I am thinking about checking the compression with a tester too. What kind of compression should I have as a roundabout?
 
  #17  
Old 05-25-10, 12:18 AM
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The engine has compression release... you aren't going to get an accurate reading testing compression. If it runs, it has enough.
 
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Old 05-25-10, 03:45 PM
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that is kind of what i figured... any ideas?
 
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Old 05-25-10, 07:02 PM
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I guess after re-reading this, and going with the things you said were checked out, I'd say the carb is flooding.
 
  #20  
Old 05-25-10, 10:37 PM
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Which could really only be triggered by the solenoid on the fuel bowl as far as i know correct? Or the float?
 
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