Toro/wheel horse has me stumped!!

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  #1  
Old 05-26-10, 02:36 PM
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Toro/wheel horse has me stumped!!

I have a 1995 Toro Wheel Horse that won't turn over. It was starting and running fine and after the last time it was shut off it is now dead. I have replaced the solenoid, battery is good, all fuses are good. I have bypassed the clutch and seat safety switches. I can hear a square black relay box click when I engage the key so I'm pretty sure the switch is ok. Does this tractor also have a blade engagement safety switch hiding somewhere? The tractor is at a customers house so I can't run out and check it or I would. Any other ideas for me to try?
Thanks for your help
Backachers
 
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  #2  
Old 05-26-10, 03:28 PM
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How did you test the battery?? Did you use a load tester or just check the voltage with a voltmeter??? Roger
 
  #3  
Old 05-27-10, 03:37 AM
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Battery is new and checked with load test. Also cranks starter when by-passing the starting system.
Thanks
Backachers
 
  #4  
Old 05-27-10, 06:45 AM
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My Poulan will not turn over if the blade engagement is on. So yes, you most likely do have a switch there.
Also, pull the spark plugs and see if it turns over. Could be hydro locked.
 
  #5  
Old 05-27-10, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Backachers View Post
I have a 1995 Toro Wheel Horse that won't turn over. It was starting and running fine and after the last time it was shut off it is now dead. I have replaced the solenoid, battery is good, all fuses are good. I have bypassed the clutch and seat safety switches. I can hear a square black relay box click when I engage the key so I'm pretty sure the switch is ok. Does this tractor also have a blade engagement safety switch hiding somewhere? The tractor is at a customers house so I can't run out and check it or I would. Any other ideas for me to try?
Thanks for your help
Backachers
I just replaced a solenoid . It would click just fine but was not closing the terminals inside.
 
  #6  
Old 05-27-10, 09:38 PM
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Sounds like a bad solenoid to me...check it and see.
 
  #7  
Old 05-29-10, 03:50 AM
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Cheese,
My first thought is that the problem was the solenoid so that is the first thing I replaced. This is a tractor I rebuilt and sold and I usually put a new solenoid on them when I rebuild them because it is easy to get at when the tractor is apart. I didn't replace this one on the rebuild so I thought it was a payback for not doing so. Anyway, I have replaced the solenoid at the customers home and still no start.(Unless the new solenoid is also bad, which is possible) I'm still thinking a safety switch has failed and will not allow power to the solenoid to engage it. I'm going to haul it to my shop and tear into it and will let you know how it comes out. I'm still open to suggestions.
Thanks
Backachers
 
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Old 05-29-10, 04:35 AM
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I had one recently that had a bad engine to frame ground.
I had cleaned all connections and even removed the starter and tested it. The solenoid would click and I could measure voltage at the starter. It had started working after cleaning the ground for the solenoid, but then it started NOT working again. Finally used a lead from the battery neg to starter and could make it work, kept working the ground point toward the starter and found that grounding from engine to frame let it work right. So it was either remove the engine bolts and clean or run a lead from the block to the frame.
 
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Old 05-29-10, 09:54 AM
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Oops, sorry, sometimes I read these posts too fast... I missed the fact that you already replaced the solenoid. You'll just have to trace power from the "S" terminal on the switch to the small terminal on the solenoid until you find the power loss, and if there is none, it will be a ground problem.
 
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Old 06-05-10, 03:22 PM
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Cheese,
I haven't had time to work on this tractor since my first post(busy time on the farm) but I'm thinking that this solenoid needs to ground through the safety switches to engage. IE if one of the switches is bad and not closing there is no ground to the solenoid. Am I on the right track or just wishful thinking?
Backachers
 
  #11  
Old 06-05-10, 03:40 PM
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Some of them do work that way. If the solenoid has 2 small terminals on it, check them when trying to start. One should have 12 volts when trying to start. If not, that is the problem. If it does, then check the other... it should be grounded when all safety switches are in their proper places. If it is not grounded, that is the problem.
 
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Old 06-06-10, 03:53 AM
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Thanks Cheese,
We are on the same track. As soon as I get time to work on it I'll let you know how I make out.
 
  #13  
Old 06-18-10, 09:23 PM
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Please Update

Hi Backachers,

How did things work out? I'm having what seems to be the exact same problem with my Wheel Horse.

Regards,
 
  #14  
Old 06-19-10, 04:09 AM
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Jolly-Roger
I think I have tracked it down to the SDPT relay in the starting circuit. You can check to see if all the grounds are ok by jumping from the battery to the positive(switch side small terminal) on the solenoid. If it cranks when doing this the solenoid is ok and the grounds through the safety switches are ok. I had already replaced the solenoid but wanted to be sure it was good. I put a new switch in it thinking the start circuit in switch had shorted out but still nothing so the last thing to replace is the relay ( small black plug in box located near the solenoid). I'll let you know how I make out. I would suggest you work backwards from my process and replace the relay first. They are about $3.00 on e-bay or you could probably get one at your local auto parts store if you don't want to wait. Let me know how you make out!!
I usually work on old John Deere garden tractors that don't have all these fancy relay circuits in them.
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Old 06-19-10, 04:15 AM
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Jolly-Roger
Addition to my last. Be sure to check the 3 10 amp fuses to be sure the are ok. You probably have done that already but just thought I would mention it.
Backachers
 
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Old 06-19-10, 08:55 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply Backachers.

Your right about the fuses. I don't know much about fixing these mowers but that was one of the first things which came to mind.

I'll definately try your suggestions and let you know how it goes. My uncle was helping me and like you we were both stumped. What you previously described was extremely similar to my problem and these suggestions make a lot of sense.

Thanks again,
 
  #17  
Old 06-20-10, 03:52 AM
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Jolly-Roger
When testing the solenoid by jumping to the start side terminal I forgot to tell you the the ignition switch needs to be in the on position or it won't crank. I'm waiting for the relay to come in the mail and will post the results once I plug it in.
Backachers
 
  #18  
Old 06-20-10, 08:55 PM
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If it is similar to my 1998 Toro rider it defintely has an engagment safety switch. I engage my blade by pulling up on a lever that is pretty much behind your right leg if sitting in the seat and the lever moves parallel with the leg. The safety switch is at the very bottom of the slot that the blade engagement lever slides in and it pushes a little metal paddle over when it is disengaged and at the bottom of the slot.
 
  #19  
Old 06-24-10, 04:08 AM
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Still Stumped!!
I have replaced the ignition switch, solenoid, and relay, and still no power to the start side on the solenoid. All safety switches check out ok. I am now going to trace every wire in the system for a break (which I should have done in the first place). Yesterday the customer gave me an "oh by the way everything was ok until I started mowing in a hay field and the deck drive belt came off". Might be a clue here. I'll keep you posted.
Backachers
 
  #20  
Old 06-24-10, 12:47 PM
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No longer stumped!!

I started checking all the wires on this Toro and found the problem. All the safety switches had checked out ok but I found a bad plug at the clutch safety switch. Replaced the plug and she now starts and runs like a top. Thanks everyone for your help.
Backachers
 
  #21  
Old 06-26-10, 01:45 PM
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Wheelhorse won't start....

I have a 94 Wheelhorse which won't start....2 weeks ago I was mowing and a white puff of smoke came from the PTO Clutch, then the entire tractor stopped, both mechanically and electrically.

Ever since, I can't get the unit to turn over. I've traced all safety switches, they seem good. I've replaced the Solenoid, and the new Solenoid has a 'machine gun' sound on 'start' ignition position...

I measure +12V to a small tab on the Solenoid...

Ideas?
 
  #22  
Old 06-26-10, 01:53 PM
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Sounds like a bad ground from the chattering of your solenoid...or maybe a bad solenoid, clean all grounds starting with the battery which may tie into the solenoid ground, starter ground, engine to frame....etc.
 
  #23  
Old 06-26-10, 02:11 PM
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Possible ground problem?

The Solenoid Ground (2 black wires) coming from the Solenoid make contact to an engine block grounding location, which is where the battery ground is connected to as well...I sand-papered down these connections, still nothing...
 
  #24  
Old 06-29-10, 04:31 PM
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If you had a puff of smoke from the area of the pto engagement lever it's a good bet that switch is bad. If not in the same area as the solenoid you should see a relay which could also cause your problem. All the safety switches are interrelated on this machine so if one is bad you have a problem with the whole system. If you check my last post you will see that after replacing the ignition switch, solenoid, and relay on a 95 model I tracked it down to a defective plug on the brake safety switch.
 
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