Crankcase gasket leak 19.5HP Craftsman rider

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  #1  
Old 07-20-10, 02:13 PM
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Crankcase gasket leak 19.5HP Craftsman rider

Craftsman 917.270815 19.5 HP, B&S 461707 type 0145-E3 engine.
I recently noticed that I have started losing oil and have tracked it down to the crankcase gasket area directly above the oil drain plug. On closer inspection it looks like there is either a bolt head broken off or I am mistaken and it is just an alignment dowel. Do you know if there is an alignment dowel in this position. Also to just replace the crankcase gasket, would it be easier to just drop the sump off the bottom or do I need to do it from the top down?
Thanks in advance.
 
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  #2  
Old 07-20-10, 03:25 PM
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I have run into many of the B&S sumps loosening up and leaking at the gasket. In most cases the bolts are loose all around and since you will have to remove the engine from the tractor to tighten them properly, it is a good time to just replace the gasket and crank seal for a proper repair.
 
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Old 08-01-10, 07:42 PM
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Replaced the gasket yesterday. There are positioning pins on each side of the case. No loose or broken bolts, but the gasket had failed. To be sure the new gasket didn't leak, I put a thin layer of Permatex 2B on each side of the gasket before reassembly. I took the least amount of parts off the engine as I could (sort of unwieldy), and set it on the top on the garage floor. All was fine until I sat the upside down sump housing on my lap and started tapping the new seal into place. As I was doing this, the govoner gear retainer ring slipped out of the groove and the assembly slipped off onto the floor. My parts diagram doesn't show all of the govoner parts and took a while to figure how the (I'm going to call it a capstan - not shown on parts diagram) fit into the fly arms while the retainer was still in the groove. Anyway, put it together yesterday and it runs with no oil leak.

I have a couple of questions.
1. Did I make a mistake with the Permatex on the gasket?
2. I had to sort of force the capstain onto the govoner shaft between the fly arm fingers to keep it from spreading too far. Does this sound like the right move?
 
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Old 08-01-10, 08:13 PM
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Did some looking and the B&S site does have a parts diagram that shows all the parts, but don't see how it can go together in the order they show as retainer is only diameter of the governor gear shaft and the capstan? has to go over the shaft.

reference 219 on page 5, parts 615 and 220

http://www.briggsandstratton.com/mai...=MS6170_LO.pdf
 
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Old 08-02-10, 09:27 PM
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Been a while since I messed with one of those, but I believe the gear goes on, then the retainer, then the hat. You have to fit it all on at one time to get the hat under the flyweights like it should be.
 
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Old 08-03-10, 07:00 AM
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If like you said all the bolts were tight, then make sure your breather or crankcase vent hose is not kinked off. Usually if you have excessive crankcase pressure, you will blow out a gasket at the weakest point. The Per 2B is good. Have used it for years on cars and truck engines, transmissions, axle differentials, etc. I still like it better than the silcone versions. I am in the same boat as Cheese on the gov gear as have not had to replace any except on a Tecumseh engine that had one fail due to age.
 
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Old 08-03-10, 10:12 AM
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Thanks for getting back with me on this. I guess to get the governor and hat on right, what I should have done was started the gear on the shaft and then slipped the retainer ring on the shaft and then put the hat on while the fly weights were free to move more. Then I would have had to reach in between the gear and the hat and slide the retainer into the grove on the shaft. What I did seemed to work OK and didn't distort anything as far as I can tell.

One more question before I put to hard work cutting grass. Should I open the inspection plate back up and check clearance between the sump housing bore and the crankshaft shoulder? Don't want to take a chance on tearing it up as has been a good motor for 11 years now. Not sure if the Per 2B might have given it extra clearance that would matter. If so, what are allowable clearances?

Thanks again for your help.

PS. Not getting a lot of relief from this shade tree. ;-)
 
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Old 08-03-10, 09:27 PM
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Cheese,
When you said the hat has to go under the flyweights, do you actually mean totally under all of the flyweights? It looked to me like it fit between the 2 sets of fingers on the bottom of the flyweights. That's where I put the bottom flange of the hat. It allows the weights to open, but not fall totally open. Beginning to wish I had taken the time to take some pictures and not been in a hurry to get it back together.
 
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Old 08-04-10, 07:31 AM
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Well, after sleeping on this last night, I have decided I have a do-over. Ordered new gaskets and breather assembly this morning. Afraid I'm going to regret using the Per 2B.

Also ordered a repair manual from B&S (If it's still in print).

Will try to correct the governor hat position from the access cover before dropping the sump again. Went ahead and ordered the 3 different thickness of crankcase gaskets. Wouldn't mind if someone could give me recommended allowance between crankshaft and sump housing just in case the repair manual isn't available.

Thanks again Camino Kid and Cheese for your help.
 
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Old 08-04-10, 02:47 PM
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Checked clearance today and had .016-.017 on top of crank. Couldn't get anything under the bottom so saying it's zero.

Looking at the governor from the inspection plate, there is no way I'm going to take all of the exterior governor parts loose to get enough play to lift the governor to check it. Went ahead and pulled sump off. There is only one position the goveror hat can go on the gear. Cheese and Camino kid are right on about how it fits. Slip the washer on first, then start the gear, then when enough shaft showing, slip on the retainer. Then put the hat between the flyweights and slide it all down the shaft. The had has too wide of a bore to seat the retainer in the groove, so will need to lift the hat a little and with small screwdriver slide the retainer into the groove.

Spinning fly weights lift hat and hat lifts governor arm to control engine speed. (If you wanted to know)

Found a small oil leak under the valve cover so will replace it's gasket also when the gasket set comes in.

Took a picture of governor today, but don't know how to post it.
 
  #11  
Old 08-04-10, 02:48 PM
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The governor hat should fit in with the flyweights, not totally under the entire assemblies. It should fit in a manner so that when the flyweights swing out, they lift the hat up, and when they swing closed they let the hat back down.

I don't have the end play specs on hand, but look for .010" or so ideally, and not much more than .020" max limit for the end play. Any more and it will rattle. Less than about .007" may cause damage to the thrust surfaces. This goes for most briggs engines.
 

Last edited by cheese; 08-04-10 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 08-04-10, 03:30 PM
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New gaskets are .015,.009, and .005" thicknesses. Will probably go with the .009 instead of the .015 (as I had) which should give me around .010 to .011" end play.

std gasket (.015)-.009=.006
free play I had (.016 to .017) - .006=.010 to .011

Will go ahead and coat both sides of gasket with Per 2B again as it's in known measurement.

By the way, didn't have any gasket remover, so used some Oops! - I know Per 2B was fairly fresh (had been ran and brought up to temperature), but it cleaned mating surfaces up very nicely.
 
  #13  
Old 08-06-10, 06:50 AM
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Hoping to help someone with same questions.

Received repair manual today (B&S part#271172).
Allowable end play on crankshaft .002 to .026" on vertical crankshaft engines. If more than .026" with one .015 gasket in place, thrust washer (part#222951) can be added on PTO end of crankshaft, then end play can be adjusted with the different thickness gaskets available.

Still waiting on parts to arrive.

Would have probably been OK to run as it was, but would have taken a chance on blowing housing gasket again with out replacing breather.
 
  #14  
Old 08-11-10, 08:51 PM
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Well got my parts yesterday.

Changed breather and valve cover gasket. Glad I did, there are some cooling-air holes behind the "air dams" built into the breather and valve cover gaskets that I have never cleaned out before. Had tried, but thought there weren't holes in the bottom. Crankcase oil leak had really made a mess of everything.

Put it all back together today and gave it a hard 4 hour workout - ran like a top and no leaks.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Think I'm ready to tackle my daughters cheep wally world special that has been taking up space in my garage for 2 yrs. (Locked up engine and tranny.)
 

Last edited by mmjohnson9; 08-11-10 at 08:51 PM. Reason: punctuation
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