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B & S - 60112 - 2 H.P.- Merry Tilller (Minnie) - Oil Seal Leak


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07-22-11, 04:09 PM   #1  
B & S - 60112 - 2 H.P.- Merry Tilller (Minnie) - Oil Seal Leak

I have a small 2 h.p. MerryTiller that I use for between the rows in the gardens, which saves a lot of weeding, and it has been "old faithfull" for years. No problems ever !

I made the mistake of loaning it to my brother-in-law yesterday, and he removed the belt guard to try to see if he could get more adjustment on the idler to tighten the belt a little more, and did not replace it.

When returning the tiller, it apparently fell over in the back of his truck, and landed on some steel he had in the box as well.

When I started the tiller up, I saw oil leaking from the oil seal, and figured no big deal, and went and picked up a new oil seal, and went to install it.

When I removed the crankcase cover, I noticed that the spacer (what I call it) in which the oil seal is mounted, was down on one side, and that in turn would put crankshaft pressure (?) on one side of the oil seal, allowing oil to leak out when the engine was running.

My question is, should this spacer (?) be mounted flush with top of the crankcase cover, leaving a small gap underneath, or pressed down as far as it will go? I honestly don't remember even noticing it before.

I managed to gently lift it up almost flush with the top, but two oil seals later, is still leaking. I've replaced oil seals on other motors without any problems, but all the other motors had a solid hub in which the oil seal was mounted, and not a spacer (?)

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

f.

Model 60112
Type 0381-01
Code 77010301

 
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07-22-11, 08:05 PM   #2  
I'm not understanding what the problem is or what you are describing. I looked at the diagram for that engine and it looks like a normal press in seal. It should be a metal piece that fills the gap and seats into the side cover with a rubber seal edge mounted on the inside diameter of it. If it's not, maybe a picture would help.


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07-23-11, 05:30 AM   #3  
Posted By: cheese I'm not understanding what the problem is or what you are describing. I looked at the diagram for that engine and it looks like a normal press in seal. It should be a metal piece that fills the gap and seats into the side cover with a rubber seal edge mounted on the inside diameter of it. If it's not, maybe a picture would help.


You are correct on the oil seal, but what I am talking about on this model, is a pressed in ring (what I called a spacer), into which the oil seal seats.

My digital camera is broken, so hopefully the picture from the manual will come through.

f.


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07-23-11, 12:51 PM   #4  
I don't see it. If the seal mounts inside this "spacer" and the spacer floats around up and down and fits loosely, how are you supposed to drive the seal in without messing up the spacer position. And if it fits that loosely, what seals the spacer so that it doesn't leak between the spacer and engine cover? I think something has been done here that isn't original or ???. Look at this parts diagram and point out what I'm missing.
http://www4.briggsandstratton.com/mi...Ls/MS4234a.pdf


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07-23-11, 07:58 PM   #5  
The motor has been untouched as far as any changes, since purchased new, years ago !

I've never had any type of oil leak in that area from day 1.

It must have taken a good hit when it fell over in the truck, to move that "spacer", and as I said earlier, I was able to gently pry it back up again.....It's in solid, and doesn't "float" or move around..

After I was able to raise it up again, I was able to tap the new oil seal into place, and the "spacer" didn't move a bit.

Briggs manual doesn't show that particular crankcase cover, but if you "zoom" in on the picture I uploaded, the top arrow points to the "spacer". That model engine must have been used for other applications besides Merry Tiller.

The question still remains, if this or any engine has a "spacer" or some such thing to take up space, should it be flush with crankcase housing, leaving a gap below, or pressed down as far as it will go, which in turn will put the oil seal further onto the crankshaft ?

My thinking, is that it should be flush, and the gap would be for oil to be returned to the crankcase, but I could be wrong.

I sure appreciate your input on this problem, it's got me scratching my head, and there's little enough hair left up there now !! : )

f.

 
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07-24-11, 12:19 AM   #6  
Well, I understand the question, but I can't answer it because I can't find any reference to a spacer, and since I can't find it on a parts diagram for that model and type engine, it appears to be either something that is intended to be integral to the side cover and not a separate piece, or not removable. I have never seen an engine of any kind that has a crankshaft seal that installs into something other than a boss in the block milled for it to fit into (other than 2 piece seals on older car engines). I can't imagine why they would have a seal installed into a spacer, then the spacer just slipped into the block. Is your seal metal and rubber?


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07-24-11, 05:35 AM   #7  
That crankcase cover apparently was a cross application for another size crank or possibly using up cover parts. The spacer you're putting in would logically be installed flush to the surface of the cover and the seal driven in flush to the surface of the spacer.

The logic applied is this is a normal way to install a seal and prevents accumulation of debris at the top/outside of the seal if it's recessed. If you still have a leak check the spacer surfaces, inner and outer, then the surface of the interface on the crank to the seal. On older engines that can get rough or possibly got nicked when the tiller fell over.

If those surfaces are in good shape apply a sealant to the inner and outer spacer surface, let it setup and install the seal. Should that fail to seal the leak, make sure your oil level is correct, the crankcase vent is clear, and check the vertical play in the crankshaft.


Last edited by marbobj; 07-24-11 at 05:51 AM.
 
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07-24-11, 09:09 AM   #8  
I thank you both for your input.

A friend stopped by this morning, and I stol....borrowed his cell phone and got a picture.

The grey ring is the "spacer", and the darker inner ring is the oil seal.

f.


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07-24-11, 09:34 AM   #9  
I would say the spacer is an adapter, although that whole thing is about the size of a seal. If you hadn't already had it apart and known what it was, I would have said the seal came apart and the "spacer" you're referring to was the metal encasement for the seal. In fact, I'm not so sure that isn't what you have.

What you could do is take the two parts to a bearing/seal parts store and see if you can get a single component seal to fit where the two parts now sit.

Or, with those being two separate parts, I would suggest doing what I previously posted.


Last edited by marbobj; 07-24-11 at 10:02 AM.
 
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07-24-11, 11:13 AM   #10  
Weird. I'd say marbobj's advice would be accurate. Install the spacer and the seal both flush, using black rtv sealant around the outer edged of both when installing.


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07-24-11, 02:53 PM   #11  
SUCCESS !!

Thank you gentlemen for your help (and patience !) with my problem.

Tiller is now up and running.....Cleaned the shaft lightly, made sure the spacer was flush with the crankcase edge, and then installed and made sure the oil seal was flush with the top of the spacer, and replaced the crankcase gasket.

Added oil, fuel, and started it up.....babysat it for 5-6 minutes, nothing, so left it for about 10 minutes and no leaks !!

I was just thinking ...with the lower oil seal gone, and now replaced would it be a good idea to replace the upper oil seal as well, or would that be overkill for now?

f.

 
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07-24-11, 03:32 PM   #12  
If it works now, don't fix it.

 
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07-24-11, 04:06 PM   #13  
Advice heeded ! : )

Thanks again for the help, it's greatly appreciated !

Have a great day,

f.

 
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