Help!! Wrong rings

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  #1  
Old 10-04-11, 03:24 PM
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Help!! Wrong rings

I have a Briggs model # 28Q777,0690-E1, 010416ZE,,,,It is labeled as 16 HP. I have been attempting to rering this engine and every time I go by the Briggs& Stratton part number they have listed I get the wrong rings. Could this engine be labeled wrong?? The bore size is 3.562 and that would put it into the 3100 series but Briggs says NO, the bore size is 3 7/16,,,,,,,,,I ain't stupid and I know how to measure an engine,,,been doing it for years. The rings that came out of this engine are ,,,,,top ring .0620 thick and 3.755 OD,,center ring is a chrome ring and is .0620 thick and 3.744 OD ,,and oil ring is .100 thick and 3.671 OD. Could I reuse these rings?? I don't believe in doing things this way. Also How do I come up with correct Model number for this engine?? It is on a Toro and I have already called them, of coarse it's not their problem.

Thanks.
John
 
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  #2  
Old 10-04-11, 08:29 PM
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the 28 series that I have are all 3 7/16 bore. Is the model on the shroud or if OHV , on valve cover? Maybe the shroud or valve covered were replaced on a 31 series with a 28 series part.
 
  #3  
Old 10-04-11, 08:56 PM
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Help

There are no numbers whatsoever on Valve cover and Yes it is a OHV engine. BS says the bore should be 3 7/16 and it is NOT and they won't beleive me. I'm like you I think it is a 31 series and then a shroud with a 28 series model number was shoved on it. I need a model and type number to order rings to fit this 3 9/16" piston and bore. Oh , BS also said the 28 was bored .010 over sized to get the 3 9/16" bore,,,,,,,,,,,,YEA RIGHT!!!!
 
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Old 10-04-11, 10:35 PM
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Lol, so they think ten thousandths equals one eighth? Weird math they got nowadays, huh?

I also think you have the wrong shroud on the engine. Look up the mower by model on the parts breakdown, then pull up the engine part number that toro lists and you should have either the engine number you have, or a list of possible engines available for that mower which you can pick from so as to narrow down the possibilities. You might just get lucky using the run of the mill 310707 basic briggs engine model number for that series.
 
  #5  
Old 10-05-11, 05:33 AM
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Thank You very much,,,,I will give this a shot. I wish there was a way I could see the specs on the rings before ordering them then I know they would be right. I have called Toro and of coarse they said the 28 series came with this mower and of coarse they are right and Iam wrong,,Iam just making all this up,,YEA RIGHT!!!!
 
  #6  
Old 10-05-11, 06:37 AM
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What is the Toro model and serial numbers - off the chassis? With a only a little of time spent on my part checking into this, try this, go to your local Briggs shop with your cylinder block, piston and old rings and ask them if you could see Briggs part number 690162, ring set. This, I believe, will be what you need. See if the rings set in the lands properly then push the oil ring down the bore with your piston (to ensure square) and check the end-gap...should be .010-.015" or so. If the shop agrees to you (or them) doing this...while you (they) watch.
 
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Old 10-05-11, 06:51 AM
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hi mowerdude ive got a question that you my be able to answer ive got a wards tiller im looking for the drive belt installation and how the pully on the 5 hp briggs is mounted the model #on the tiller is GIL - 1593b 86x45640 can you please send me in the right direction ty jim
 
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Old 10-05-11, 02:09 PM
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The Toro Model number is 71223, serial # is 220000107. Thanks for this information,,,,if only some of the Briggs stores would stock rings ,,that is the proplem, they don't stock nothing around here except your filters and belts and carb parts. The ring set that you mention is the same number that I got this morning but BS is of no help,,I have asked them for Demensions of the rings and they say "WHAT"!!!! I have been put on the list to have a n advanced tech call me,,,It hasn't happened yet. I will end up ordering the rings and if they are wrong I will get stuck with the shipping and 20% restocking fee. This is what Iam trying to avoid. Thank You for your answers.
 
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Old 10-05-11, 02:33 PM
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I'm sorry Jim I am unable to help you. Do a google search of belt installation for MW,,if it was in front of me I might beable to help ya, but Iam not,,Thanks
 
  #10  
Old 10-06-11, 06:34 AM
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The rings part number I provided is for a 31-cubic inch engine, not a 28CI, so, they should be what you need. I see, indeed, that the Toro website indicates that the engine is a 28Q777-0690-E1 but since you are sure the bore is 3.562 the rings I noted should work for you.
 
  #11  
Old 10-06-11, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by puey61 View Post
The rings part number I provided is for a 31-cubic inch engine, not a 28CI, so, they should be what you need. I see, indeed, that the Toro website indicates that the engine is a 28Q777-0690-E1 but since you are sure the bore is 3.562 the rings I noted should work for you.
just to repeat you I looked up the specs in briggs manual, 28 series is 3.437 (I have another manual that says (min 3.4365 max 3.4375) so this manual just averages them) and reject is 3.441 and for 31 it's 3.563 with reject of 3.567. So OP's has got to be a 31.
And by looking this up and seeing the reject on the 28 I'm might just re-ring one of mine one last time with chrome rings. It's right on the reject and thanks to puey I'll check the new ring gap first and see if below .015 (reject is .035). I was toying with another block that's less worn but have to drill out broken muffler studs to use it with other than screw pipe muffler.
 
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Old 10-06-11, 09:51 AM
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38 racing, too bad you don't live closer or you could pick up a block from my shop, I have a few. I don't know if you've used chrome rings in cast iron lined cylinders with success before, but I usually don't like chrome in lined cylinders, only in aluminum. They never seat in well (the chrome is too hard and the cylinder is too hard).
 
  #13  
Old 10-06-11, 11:18 AM
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Yes, I understand what you are talking about puey61 but the 31 series engine(which I have but has been tagged wrong) no numbers in valve cover. I noticed I did a job a while back on a 31 series engine and had to replace the piston and head, but the rings are WAY to narrow to fit my 31 series piston. That is where I am have an issue with getting that spec. BS is still having to throw it to other people higher up on the Tech ladder. I don't want rings for a 28 series, I have 4 sets. I want rings for a 31 series but I want the messurement of the width of the ring to make sure it will fit the ring groove on the piston I have for this 31 series engine. This is getting hard to explain any more . We use to do this everytime we had to build a racin engine for the race car, the ring grooves had to be meassured on every piston to make sure the ring groove was not worn out and to makes sure the rings didn't have to much slop to them. But this is a mower motor and Iam not racin it. WIDTH OF RING OR RING GROOVE OF PISTON AND THEN PART NUMBER WILL FIX IT!
 
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Old 10-06-11, 11:21 AM
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Thank you for that part number but are the width of the top and middle ring .0625?? and the width of the oil ring .100?? that is the question...Thanks
 
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Old 10-06-11, 11:25 AM
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The bore size on my engine is 3.562. It is a 31 series,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I need specs on ring groove or spes on the rings WIDTH!! End gap does me no good but it is good information
 
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Old 10-06-11, 02:30 PM
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puey61,,,,,,,I have called my parts store and have asked them to pull part number 690162 and asked them to manualy measure these rings. Top ring thickness should be .0625 (1/16") and sencond ring needs to be .0625 (1/16") also and oil ring is .100" thick. I am not look for ring gap I am looking for a set of rings that will fit my ring lands(grooves). I hope this part number is the right one.
 
  #17  
Old 10-06-11, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mowerdude View Post
puey61,,,,,,,I have called my parts store and have asked them to pull part number 690162 and asked them to manualy measure these rings. Top ring thickness should be .0625 (1/16") and sencond ring needs to be .0625 (1/16") also and oil ring is .100" thick. I am not look for ring gap I am looking for a set of rings that will fit my ring lands(grooves). I hope this part number is the right one.
i would think the groove width and hence ring width is standard on all those 31s. No indication of differences like that on the ipl
 
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Old 10-06-11, 08:32 PM
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This may be true so why did they put a different piston in the 31's and use a different ring? I have a piston to prove that a possible different piston and smaller ring grove used in a different type #. I 'll post that size and info tomorrow.
 
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Old 10-07-11, 06:09 PM
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What is ipl?? Yes different pistons and different ring grooves are used. puey61 I ordered that set of rings that you gave me part number on so Monday we shall see if they are the correct ones. 38 racer I'll post a piston number that uses different rings later tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for all the input.
 
  #20  
Old 10-07-11, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mowerdude View Post
What is ipl?? Yes different pistons and different ring grooves are used. puey61 I ordered that set of rings that you gave me part number on so Monday we shall see if they are the correct ones. 38 racer I'll post a piston number that uses different rings later tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for all the input.
IPL, Illustrated Parts List, usually supplied by the manufacturer. Have a good one. Geo
 
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Old 10-07-11, 08:43 PM
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Thank You, I wish it would supply the information that I am looking for.
 
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Old 10-08-11, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mowerdude View Post
...... Yes different pistons and different ring grooves are used. .......................
On what do you make that conclusion? At least within the 31 series?
 
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Old 10-08-11, 12:28 PM
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Yes, on the 31 series and others,,,just look at the parts numbers listed for a 31Q series, and also I did a 31Q series last year and the piston had very short skirts and had like a teflon patch on each side of the piston skirt. I'll enter part numbers later
 
  #24  
Old 10-08-11, 08:50 PM
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The piston part number is 796172 and the ring grooves accept a .0465 thick ring in top groove and center groove,,oil ring is .0740" thick. This is for a 31Q777-0298-E1 17.5 HP engine. I replaced this piston last year and kept it because it has a valve head stuck in the top of it and I use it as a conversation piece. So I measured the rings on it. So are all 31 series pistons the same??? NOPE!!! So are all rings the same on all 31 series engines??? NOPE!!
 
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Old 10-09-11, 03:04 PM
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Is it maybe an Aftermarket piston that someone put in??? If it has the incorrect fanshroud on it, Someone may have been into it before.. Check Stens, Oregon, Etc & see if anything there helps..The other option is buying pistons to fit the rings from briggs.... Sorry,, Roger
 
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Old 10-09-11, 04:41 PM
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The piston is $70.00,,,,,,,I think it came off the truck on a Toro mower damaged and the engine got swaped and a 28 series shroud got put on it. What amazes me is that BS will not help at all!!! Just goes to show you that they don't care about the little guy.
 
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Old 10-09-11, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by hopkinsr2 View Post
Is it maybe an Aftermarket piston that someone put in??? If it has the incorrect fanshroud on it, Someone may have been into it before.. Check Stens, Oregon, Etc & see if anything there helps..The other option is buying pistons to fit the rings from briggs.... Sorry,, Roger



It is not an aftermarket piston,,Piston numbers are of BS,,,but I am unable to get anybody to run down the numbers on top of piston. The rings from Briggs are for a Bore of 3 7/16 and as I said before the bore is 3 9/16. If Briggs would just answer my question this I know could be all solved, surely they have a blue print on this engine which in turn would show the rings sizes that match this piston. But maybe that is way tooooooooooooooooooooo technical???
 
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Old 10-09-11, 08:54 PM
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what are the piston numbers?
 
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Old 10-10-11, 04:00 AM
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the numbers on top of piston are 214843-STD,,,F069-3B,,,
 
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Old 10-10-11, 09:47 AM
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Mowerdude, are you and authorized Briggs shop? I ask because it would be your distributor who would help you with questions/concerns such as you have. Me, even being an authorized shop cannot consult with the factory for problems so I'm not surprised you are getting nowhere with them...imagine if they fielded calls from the general public; you thought your hold time with DMV was bad! FYI, I ran the Briggs number you posted (last reply) and come up empty on both my Part Smart lookup and distributors site. If you are not a Briggs dealer, do you have a good relationship with a local shop who you could turn to?
 
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Old 10-10-11, 11:43 AM
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puey61,,Iam not a BS authorized Briggs shop and yes I have good relationship with the Briggs authorized Briggs shop. I figured this would be the case,,,I can't beleive it. I am a small no name lawn mower repair shop and I get kicked to the curb,,thanks for your help. I have supplied these numbers to local BS shop and haven't a clue also,,,,,,,so do I just throw this engine away?? Or do I pay about $300.00 to have local BS dealer deal with it??? UNREAL!!
 
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Old 10-10-11, 02:19 PM
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Well, wait on the rings you ordered and then cross the next bridge if need be. Hopefully, there is no next bridge!
 
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Old 10-10-11, 02:32 PM
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WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!! The part number that you provided are the right ones puey61 and cheese that model # you provided shows one set of rings (STD) and it is 690162 for a part number which is what puey61 provided. I looked at most of all the the IPL and it looks identical to what I have. I WILL STAMP THOSE NUMBERS IN VALVE COVER,,and remove the other model tag. I hope this will help others also in the future. Thanks to everyone!!
 
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Old 10-11-11, 06:02 AM
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Phew! Another successful story...but not without some loss of hair.
 
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Old 10-11-11, 11:17 AM
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Thank You again,,,,,,Briggs & Stratton wants to know more, they now want to know how we came up with all this information. I told them from a very kind Briggs dealer on a Forum. Now they want to know who??? They also want to know where the Toro was purchased new, I gave them that information, but nothing of any names on here. What part of NY are you from puey61,,,I was born and raised in Geneva, NY. Again everybody thank you very much.
 
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Old 10-11-11, 11:49 AM
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Uh OH! You've been identified as hacking their super secret parts system. Now yer in for it. Bar the doors and sleep with one eye open from now on...
 
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Old 10-11-11, 04:15 PM
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You may be right! Dang message to short so I have to type more. This should do it.
 
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Old 10-11-11, 06:24 PM
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Lol, well I'm glad you got it! You can tell them where you got the info ...copy and paste http://www.doityourself.com/forum/ou...ong-rings.html

and my screen name if you like... I'd be interested in finding out what they have to say. (curious as to why they want to know who helped). Maybe they would like to advertise or participate in this forum or site.
 
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Old 10-11-11, 07:42 PM
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Cheese;
Be careful you might end up in Guantanamo, as a "RING" leader in some spy organization and they will know that 690162 is the secret code. Have a good one. Geo
 
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Old 10-11-11, 07:59 PM
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Ok, Cheese,,,,I am not sure what and or why all of a sudden BS started asking questions,,,Yes, I too would like to hear what they have to say,,,I can lead them here if they choose to. I am just glad to have the correct rings and the engine assembled and hopfully fire it on Wednesday. Again thank you.
 
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