Kohler CV20s/Craftsman GT

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Old 05-07-12, 01:51 PM
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Kohler CV20s/Craftsman GT

20HP V twin
Any common or known issues for these seizing up?

Have on in the shop and it simply does not want to turn over. I was able to get it to turn far enough to verify both pistons are moving up and down. Also pulled the flywheel and all is intact and the engine still does not want to turn with flywheel removed.
The crank under the flywheel had about 1/2" of pretty well built up rust and the upper bearing (what is exposed any way) looked fairly well molded up as in much moisture...(Pac NW is common for this white stuff on equipment left out)

I have serviced this GT for several years now and it has always been only the usual, belts and mandrels and such. Never has used a drop of oil. Comments when it quit was that it was running, got off to put the dogs up and it just quit...quietly
 
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Old 05-07-12, 03:26 PM
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Hey BFHFixit....


Doe's this unit have the PTO clutch ?

If so, Drop the clutch off the crankshaft then try spin'n the engine. If one of the clutch bearings failed it would shut the engine down.....

Otherwise post ALL the engine numbers for me.


Cya
 
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Old 05-07-12, 04:22 PM
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Hi ya tech,
I thought about the PTO, it spins freely when not engaged, I can defeat the seat switch and engage the PTO and spin the engine with same resistance....PTO disengaged it spins free and deck free as well....I will go get the numbers now and post back....

Thanks,
Hope all is well with ya
 
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Old 05-07-12, 04:31 PM
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Ok numbers are as follows:
Craftsman: 917.272960 S/N: 120600A6865
Kohler: CV20s, Spec 65561 S/N 3030705571
 
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Old 05-07-12, 04:40 PM
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PS:
No more than I can spin the engine with breaker...I do hear a groan sounds like from the rear of the engine...thus my suspicion of flywheel.....but after removing the flywheel it sounds deeper into the engine...sounds like bearing/bushing....seized...no clank or free movement at any point.
 
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Old 05-07-12, 05:16 PM
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Everythings go'n well....


Ya missed my point with the PTO clutch, I've found the top bearings seized on a few that caused engine drag/lock-up. If the lower clutch bearing fails/seizes the clutch would drive the deck continuously, Just for giggles before tearing into the engine too deep drop the clutch off and make sure.


Cya
 
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Old 05-07-12, 05:24 PM
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Ok will do .
 
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Old 05-07-12, 06:26 PM
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Hi BFHFixit,

I haven't seen one do what this one is doing, but I have seen one spin the top crankshaft bushing in the block and mess up the whole block... probably happened just like this one did, except instead of locking up like this one, it probably just bogged down until it spun the bushing and then kept going.
 
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Old 05-07-12, 06:34 PM
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OK thanks cheese,
Not much to drop the clutch so will do that any way and see...but sure seems to me like internal after pulling the flywheel. Just never seen any engine let go that would not give some free spin at all...

thx to both for replies
Az
 
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Old 05-07-12, 06:40 PM
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Interestingly enough, the one I saw that ruined the block:
The reason I found the problem was that it got to where it wouldn't run well. I checked it out and noticed the coil gap was too small, and in fact the flywheel was hitting the coil. Seeing that, and the fact that oil was coming from under the flywheel where oil rarely leaks, I decided to wiggle the flywheel back and forth to see if there was play in it. There was probably near 1/8 inch of slop. It ran that long, lol.
 
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Old 05-07-12, 06:55 PM
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I was expecting to find something similar or at least, a coil or magnet had come loose. It did take some jostling to get the flywheel off the shaft even after busting it loose from the seat...only thing was some gentle marks on the inside of the flywheel from the built up dust I attributed to rocking the flywheel getting it off the crank. Outside of it had no marks or scores and no score inside just some dust knocked off....sure hope tech is on to something....and can teach me another thing or three
The weak point on these tractors, IMO, is the mower, other than that hey are one heck of a tractor.
Preciate the input guys and good talkin to ya's again.

Az
 
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Old 05-07-12, 07:00 PM
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Techs idea is valid though, because the bearing that turns when you turn the pulley underneath is not the one that causes the problem. The one that causes problems is the top bearing, and it is on the part of the clutch that is keyed to the crankshaft. I've seen them messed up, and usually they cause the clutch to short out and burn up or they rip the tang that holds the clutch solid to the frame loose and snatch the clutch wires loose. You never know 'till you look.
 
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Old 05-07-12, 07:24 PM
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Ok guees I am not picturing it very well...I would think it would spin the clutch against the tangs then....I don't see any signs of that ...
This will totally derail this thread but....
The owner is a pilot for a to be unamed airline....he also has and old Montgomery Wards/MTD rider here that is well....mostly wore out that he used as a brush hog. He parked it last fall when the steering went out, then this spring decided to see about resurrecting it. Said it was using oil, 12 HP briggs. So I put a charge on it, tried it and it fired right up, oil was a bit low and black of course but.....
Pulled the air filter along with a brick of grass, same under the cowlings...figured ya it is using oil to cool and breathe
Dummy me I only asked if all else was working when he shut it down last...yes just could not steer was the reply....
Well....I replace the lower steering shaft then go to try it out...hmmmm.....one spindle was so wore out that the belt put it in such a bind it would not even turn. So I have a deck with the newer type spindles I will put on for him...pull his deck and dang rear drive belt has a huge gash in it...so I suggest DOA
Acres to mow and now...no mowers...
 
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Old 05-07-12, 08:15 PM
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Yep, it will put force on the tang if it is that bearing.

Monkey wards as my dad called it. I haven't seen a mower with that name on it in a long time. MTD as I recall.
 
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Old 05-08-12, 06:18 PM
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Tech to the rescue again!

Well kudos again tech and cheese for confirming....dropped the clutch and sure enough engine spins like a merry go round and the upper bearing in the clutch looks like split pea soup

Another day another lesson....is a good day
 
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Old 05-08-12, 06:28 PM
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Nice! Good call 31YTech!
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Old 05-08-12, 06:29 PM
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Guess I should ask...can those bearing be replaced easy enough or ?????
I know last one of those clutches I replaced was about 225.00 and that was some years ago.

thanks gin,

Az
 
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Old 05-08-12, 06:40 PM
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I have replaced them, but it's a pain. You have to cut the crimps out of the stamped metal that the bearing is in, and the bearings aren't cheap. It can be hard to get the bearing out, especially the outer race. Check ebay, you can pick up clutches cheap there sometimes.
 
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Old 05-08-12, 07:11 PM
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Well kudos again tech and cheese for confirming

[ATTACH=CONFIG]364[/ATTACH]


I've replaced those bearings before as well but they are a pita like Mr Cheese said.... You may want to gander at this place for a replacement, Their about the cheapest I've found; https://secure.wf-api.com/www.turftr...-clutches.html


Cya....
 
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