Riding mower runs! but wont move
#1
08-25-13, 08:23 AM
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: usa
Posts: 1
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes
on
0 Posts
Riding mower runs! but wont move
I have a Craftsman's LT1000 riding mower that runs good BUT when I release the clutch brake or engage the blades the engine will power down. I can have the seat up and it stays running also. Please Help!
#4
08-25-13, 04:26 PM
Don’t you just hate those stupid safety switches that they put on riding mowers?
The seat "safety switch" is a normally open switch that breaks the circuit when there is no weight on the seat.
Lift the seat and unplug the switch, the engine should not turn over.
If it doesn’t then you likely have a defective seat switch.
Sears PART NUMBER: 121305X $9.65
Which should address the problem with the mower still running with no weight on the seat, but probably does not address the rest of your problems.
If the engine will turn over with the switch unplugged, whether the seat switch is defective or not, then you likely have a short somewhere in the wiring from the ignition switch to the seat safety switch.
If it does not turn over with the switch unplugged, place a short jumper wire across the plug that came off the switch and try it.
If the engine turns over with the jumper in place, go ahead and start the mower and see if the engine is killed when you release the clutch only.
If it is, then locate and unplug the clutch safety switch.
Under normal conditions, the engine should start and run with the clutch switch unplugged whether or not the clutch pedal is depressed.
If the engine starts and runs with the clutch switch unplugged, engage the blades.
If the engine continues to run then you probably have a defective clutch switch.
Sears PART NUMBER: 176138 $14.95
Or in this instance you can merely leave the switch unplugged until you have the money time and inclination to replace the switch. Just make sure you secure the wires somewhere so they don’t get damaged during use.
Personally I run my mowers with the seat switch bypassed with a jumper and the clutch switch removed from the circuit. Both in my craftsman DLT 3000, and in the older Murray that I have.
You can also test the blade engage switch the same way.
If the engage works with the switch unplugged, but not with the switch plugged in, then you have a defective engage switch, which is the same sears part as the clutch switch.
If the problem isn’t with one of the latter two switches, then my best guess, without digging into the wiring myself, is that you have a dead short in one of the wires coming from either of the three switches which will serve as a kill switch by shorting the engine to ground.
In which instance you will have to be prepared to start tracing wires for the short.
Good luck.
The seat "safety switch" is a normally open switch that breaks the circuit when there is no weight on the seat.
Lift the seat and unplug the switch, the engine should not turn over.
If it doesn’t then you likely have a defective seat switch.
Sears PART NUMBER: 121305X $9.65
Which should address the problem with the mower still running with no weight on the seat, but probably does not address the rest of your problems.
If the engine will turn over with the switch unplugged, whether the seat switch is defective or not, then you likely have a short somewhere in the wiring from the ignition switch to the seat safety switch.
If it does not turn over with the switch unplugged, place a short jumper wire across the plug that came off the switch and try it.
If the engine turns over with the jumper in place, go ahead and start the mower and see if the engine is killed when you release the clutch only.
If it is, then locate and unplug the clutch safety switch.
Under normal conditions, the engine should start and run with the clutch switch unplugged whether or not the clutch pedal is depressed.
If the engine starts and runs with the clutch switch unplugged, engage the blades.
If the engine continues to run then you probably have a defective clutch switch.
Sears PART NUMBER: 176138 $14.95
Or in this instance you can merely leave the switch unplugged until you have the money time and inclination to replace the switch. Just make sure you secure the wires somewhere so they don’t get damaged during use.
Personally I run my mowers with the seat switch bypassed with a jumper and the clutch switch removed from the circuit. Both in my craftsman DLT 3000, and in the older Murray that I have.
You can also test the blade engage switch the same way.
If the engage works with the switch unplugged, but not with the switch plugged in, then you have a defective engage switch, which is the same sears part as the clutch switch.
If the problem isn’t with one of the latter two switches, then my best guess, without digging into the wiring myself, is that you have a dead short in one of the wires coming from either of the three switches which will serve as a kill switch by shorting the engine to ground.
In which instance you will have to be prepared to start tracing wires for the short.
Good luck.
#5
08-25-13, 08:23 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Mister_Ed, it doesn't work that way.
Rockytop, plug the connector on tighter first and report back. That is usually the problem.
Rockytop, plug the connector on tighter first and report back. That is usually the problem.
#6
08-27-13, 10:11 PM
After reading your chastisement cheese, I went to my Murray to clarify a few things.
It has three wires coming off it; one goes to ground, one goes to the brake switch and one goes to the PTO engage switch.
It is normally “closed” to create an engine kill circuit, until the seat is occupied.
The brake switch, is a double switch normally closed in the kill circuit, and normally open in the starting circuit, when the pedal is up.
When you depress the pedal the kill circuit is broken and the starting circuit is completed to allow current to flow through the PTO switch to the starter solenoid.
When you let off the pedal the kill circuit is completed back to the seat switch to kill the engine if the seat is unoccupied.
The PTO switch is also a double, normally closed in the starting circuit, and normally open in the kill circuit.
When you engage the PTO, the starting circuit opens to prevent current to the solenoid, and the kill circuit completes back to the seat switch, to kill the engine if the seat is unoccupied.
Removing the wire to ground from the seat switch disables the kill circuit, but allows the brake and PTO switches to function correctly through the starting circuit.
Start only if brake pedal is depressed and not start if PTO is engaged.
Simple removal of the seat switch should also disable the kill circuit and allow the engine to start and run normally, but not die when you get out of the seat.
The craftsman basic schematic shows a slightly different, though similar configuration.
The seat switch is a normally closed kill switch to ground through the PTO switch only.
The brake switch is a single normally open switch that closes the starting circuit to the PTO switch when the pedal is depressed.
The PTO switch is a double that is normally closed in the starting circuit and normally open in the kill circuit.
The same thing applies.
Removing the ground wire from the seat switch, or removing the switch altogether, disables the kill circuit and allows the mower to start and run, but would not kill the engine when you get out of the seat.
The craftsman basic schematic with electric clutch is more complex, but still similar in function and use.
The seat switch shows as a two position, single function switch that is connected to the ignition unit instead of direct ground, and connects to both the brake and the PTO switches to ground.
The brake switch is normally closed in the kill circuit, and normally open in the starting circuit, pedal up position.
The PTO engage is a triple switch that is normally closed in the starting circuit and normally open in both the kill circuit and electric clutch circuits.
With the PTO disengaged the starting circuit is complete to the brake switch.
The kill circuit is broken to the seat switch and the circuit is broken to the electric clutch.
With the PTO engaged the starting circuit is broken, the kill circuit is closed to the seat switch and the electric clutch is engaged.
As for the problem with Rockytop’s DLT1000.
What he describes with the mower dieing either when he releases the brake, OR when he engages the PTO.
I have to assume either that he has an electric clutch, which shows as having a kill position.
Or he has a mower without electric clutch, and;
He has a mower that uses a double function switch on the brake pedal, as is used on the Murray, instead of the single function switch shown in the schematic I have for a craftsman, which is certainly possible. Or, that there is a dead short from the starter side to the kill side of the PTO switch.
From the schematic I have for the electric clutch, you should be able to unplug the seat switch altogether, start the mower and have it continue running when the blades are engaged or when the pedal is raised.
Buy a new seat switch for the sake of manufacturer safety standards.
If you’re having problems with it now, you are just going to keep having problems with it as long as it is plugged in, regardless of how many times you get off the mower and raise the seat to jiggle, tap or clean it.
My craftsman LT1000, not electric clutch, starts easily with the seat switch unplugged, and will continue to run with pedal up and blades engaged.
If your DLT1000 will start and continue to run with pedal up and blades engaged with the seat switch unplugged, buy a new seat switch and try it with the new switch plugged in.
If the problem continues with a new seat switch, then remove the PTO engage switch and jumper the wires that go to the solenoid and to the brake switch and try to start it.
If it starts and runs when you engage the blades with the jumper in place, then your problem is most likely the PTO switch.
If it starts and runs with the blades engaged but dies when you raise the clutch, reconnect the PTO switch.
If your brake switch has four wires, locate the wire to the PTO switch and the wire to the ignition switch, jumper them and try to start it and keep it running with the pedal up and blades engaged.
Same thing, if it starts and runs with the PTO switch back in place, and the jumper across the brake switch plug in place, then your problem is most likely the Brake switch.
It has three wires coming off it; one goes to ground, one goes to the brake switch and one goes to the PTO engage switch.
It is normally “closed” to create an engine kill circuit, until the seat is occupied.
The brake switch, is a double switch normally closed in the kill circuit, and normally open in the starting circuit, when the pedal is up.
When you depress the pedal the kill circuit is broken and the starting circuit is completed to allow current to flow through the PTO switch to the starter solenoid.
When you let off the pedal the kill circuit is completed back to the seat switch to kill the engine if the seat is unoccupied.
The PTO switch is also a double, normally closed in the starting circuit, and normally open in the kill circuit.
When you engage the PTO, the starting circuit opens to prevent current to the solenoid, and the kill circuit completes back to the seat switch, to kill the engine if the seat is unoccupied.
Removing the wire to ground from the seat switch disables the kill circuit, but allows the brake and PTO switches to function correctly through the starting circuit.
Start only if brake pedal is depressed and not start if PTO is engaged.
Simple removal of the seat switch should also disable the kill circuit and allow the engine to start and run normally, but not die when you get out of the seat.
The craftsman basic schematic shows a slightly different, though similar configuration.
The seat switch is a normally closed kill switch to ground through the PTO switch only.
The brake switch is a single normally open switch that closes the starting circuit to the PTO switch when the pedal is depressed.
The PTO switch is a double that is normally closed in the starting circuit and normally open in the kill circuit.
The same thing applies.
Removing the ground wire from the seat switch, or removing the switch altogether, disables the kill circuit and allows the mower to start and run, but would not kill the engine when you get out of the seat.
The craftsman basic schematic with electric clutch is more complex, but still similar in function and use.
The seat switch shows as a two position, single function switch that is connected to the ignition unit instead of direct ground, and connects to both the brake and the PTO switches to ground.
The brake switch is normally closed in the kill circuit, and normally open in the starting circuit, pedal up position.
The PTO engage is a triple switch that is normally closed in the starting circuit and normally open in both the kill circuit and electric clutch circuits.
With the PTO disengaged the starting circuit is complete to the brake switch.
The kill circuit is broken to the seat switch and the circuit is broken to the electric clutch.
With the PTO engaged the starting circuit is broken, the kill circuit is closed to the seat switch and the electric clutch is engaged.
As for the problem with Rockytop’s DLT1000.
What he describes with the mower dieing either when he releases the brake, OR when he engages the PTO.
I have to assume either that he has an electric clutch, which shows as having a kill position.
Or he has a mower without electric clutch, and;
He has a mower that uses a double function switch on the brake pedal, as is used on the Murray, instead of the single function switch shown in the schematic I have for a craftsman, which is certainly possible. Or, that there is a dead short from the starter side to the kill side of the PTO switch.
From the schematic I have for the electric clutch, you should be able to unplug the seat switch altogether, start the mower and have it continue running when the blades are engaged or when the pedal is raised.
Buy a new seat switch for the sake of manufacturer safety standards.
If you’re having problems with it now, you are just going to keep having problems with it as long as it is plugged in, regardless of how many times you get off the mower and raise the seat to jiggle, tap or clean it.
My craftsman LT1000, not electric clutch, starts easily with the seat switch unplugged, and will continue to run with pedal up and blades engaged.
If your DLT1000 will start and continue to run with pedal up and blades engaged with the seat switch unplugged, buy a new seat switch and try it with the new switch plugged in.
If the problem continues with a new seat switch, then remove the PTO engage switch and jumper the wires that go to the solenoid and to the brake switch and try to start it.
If it starts and runs when you engage the blades with the jumper in place, then your problem is most likely the PTO switch.
If it starts and runs with the blades engaged but dies when you raise the clutch, reconnect the PTO switch.
If your brake switch has four wires, locate the wire to the PTO switch and the wire to the ignition switch, jumper them and try to start it and keep it running with the pedal up and blades engaged.
Same thing, if it starts and runs with the PTO switch back in place, and the jumper across the brake switch plug in place, then your problem is most likely the Brake switch.
#7
08-28-13, 07:38 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
The model number is not supplied, however, on most every LT1000 and other models by Craftsman and other brands manufactured by AYP, the seat switch allows the engine to start and run as long as the PTO is disengaged (manual or electric) and the clutch/brake pedal is depressed (parking brake on). In addition, removal of the switch will not open the circuit. In the connector to the seat switch is a micro switch. This micro switch is activated by a small bump on the seat switch. If the seat switch is unplugged, or becomes loose, this micro switch closes the circuit, making the mower think no-one is on the seat even when there is. This means you can start the mower, but as soon as you release the clutch or engage the PTO, it shuts it down.
Murray doesn't use the same system on most of their mowers.
I don't see any "Chastising" here. I'm a moderator, and as such, it is my job to see that the member gets accurate information. Yours wasn't accurate, so I said so. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing personal. You said "If the engine will turn over with the switch unplugged, whether the seat switch is defective or not, then you likely have a short somewhere in the wiring from the ignition switch to the seat safety switch." This is incorrect, it should crank up with the switch unplugged as long as the PTO is disengaged and clutch is pressed.
You said, "If it does not turn over with the switch unplugged, place a short jumper wire across the plug that came off the switch and try it." When you unplug the seat switch, it is already jumped because of the micro switch in the connector, and the diagnosis that follows doesn't apply.
I can continue with more quotes, but that would be going overboard. The purpose of this is to show you that the systems don't work as you described, not to berate you. I actually appreciate your participation in the forum, but don't be thin skinned if you get corrected. I know everything and I still get corrected once in a while, lol.
Murray doesn't use the same system on most of their mowers.
I don't see any "Chastising" here. I'm a moderator, and as such, it is my job to see that the member gets accurate information. Yours wasn't accurate, so I said so. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing personal. You said "If the engine will turn over with the switch unplugged, whether the seat switch is defective or not, then you likely have a short somewhere in the wiring from the ignition switch to the seat safety switch." This is incorrect, it should crank up with the switch unplugged as long as the PTO is disengaged and clutch is pressed.
You said, "If it does not turn over with the switch unplugged, place a short jumper wire across the plug that came off the switch and try it." When you unplug the seat switch, it is already jumped because of the micro switch in the connector, and the diagnosis that follows doesn't apply.
I can continue with more quotes, but that would be going overboard. The purpose of this is to show you that the systems don't work as you described, not to berate you. I actually appreciate your participation in the forum, but don't be thin skinned if you get corrected. I know everything and I still get corrected once in a while, lol.
Last edited by cheese; 08-28-13 at 08:00 PM.
#9
08-29-13, 12:10 PM
How about if we do it the simple way and just spend ten bucks to replace the seat switch, since that is the most likely problem.
Then we won't even have to be concerned about exactly how the safety switches work in conjunction with each other.
I'm like you though cheese, I also "know everything," I'm just not "always" correct in what I think I know.
I'm glad that you wrote about the micro switch though, as that explains a couple things to me that I didn't understand on the DLT2000.
As my LT1000 does in fact work properly with the seat switch merely unplugged,
as does the Murray with the kill wire to ground removed from the seat switch,
though it didn't do the same thing with the DLT2000.
Maybe the reason the LT1000 works with the seat switch unplugged on mine is because the micro switch itself is defective, and the DLT2000 didn't work the same way because the micro switch was still operational.
Then we won't even have to be concerned about exactly how the safety switches work in conjunction with each other.
I'm like you though cheese, I also "know everything," I'm just not "always" correct in what I think I know.
I'm glad that you wrote about the micro switch though, as that explains a couple things to me that I didn't understand on the DLT2000.
As my LT1000 does in fact work properly with the seat switch merely unplugged,
as does the Murray with the kill wire to ground removed from the seat switch,
though it didn't do the same thing with the DLT2000.
Maybe the reason the LT1000 works with the seat switch unplugged on mine is because the micro switch itself is defective, and the DLT2000 didn't work the same way because the micro switch was still operational.
#10
08-29-13, 05:52 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
"I'm like you though cheese, I also "know everything," I'm just not "always" correct in what I think I know."..............Exactly where I'm coming from, lol.
I still don't think the switch needs replacing though. What happens is the connector becomes slightly unplugged and this disengages the little "bump" from the micro switch in the connector. Merely pushing it back on tighter does the trick. The little "catch" that clips the connector to the switch relaxes with age and allows the connector to get loose. To fix the problem, it either has to be periodically pushed back on tight, strapped on tight with a cable tie, or the connector replaced.
I still don't think the switch needs replacing though. What happens is the connector becomes slightly unplugged and this disengages the little "bump" from the micro switch in the connector. Merely pushing it back on tighter does the trick. The little "catch" that clips the connector to the switch relaxes with age and allows the connector to get loose. To fix the problem, it either has to be periodically pushed back on tight, strapped on tight with a cable tie, or the connector replaced.
