Briggs and Stratton 13.5 HP I/C Quiet Engine not starting

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  #1  
Old 11-16-15, 03:19 PM
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Briggs and Stratton 13.5 HP I/C Quiet Engine not starting

Hello All,
I am in need of some serious help. I have a 13.5 HP Briggs and Stratton riding mower engine that just will not start. The battery is fine and it turns over fine. I replaced the air cleaner, spark plug, fuel filter, and fuel line. I tested the spark plug and it is getting plenty of spark. There is plenty of fuel in the carburetor. There are no broken/worn wires (kill wire). Last I knew, gas, air and spark is all that was needed to run. Does anyone have any ideas about what could be wrong. It just doesn't make any sense that it won't start. We were using it to haul sticks in a small dump cart a couple weeks ago, and after about 2 hours of use (starting and stopping), it just decided not to start again. Any thoughts?

Thank you in advance,
Matt
 
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  #2  
Old 11-16-15, 04:19 PM
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At least 95% of the time it's a fuel issue.
Removed and rebuild the carb. yet? Blowing it out with air or just spraying carb. cleaner in the intake does not count.
Been using ethenel gas or regular gas without adding an additive to counter act the effects of it?
Sure way to have issues.
 
  #3  
Old 11-16-15, 05:34 PM
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First thing give us the model and type numbers the first 4 of the code also.

I agree with Joe on a fuel issue. If you pour a small amount of gas in the carb will it start ??

A friend at the camp asked whats up with his. New carb, plug etc. I said maybe a stuck valve. Sure enough that's what it was. I'm saying that's what wrong with yours. Trial and error will tell the tale.
 
  #4  
Old 11-16-15, 08:06 PM
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Does it have compression?
 
  #5  
Old 11-16-15, 09:13 PM
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Correction ***

I meant to say; I'm not saying that's what's wrong with yours.
 
  #6  
Old 11-17-15, 02:20 AM
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I have not rebuilt the carb yet. Here are the specs on the engine:
Model: 28v707
Type: 1125e1
Code: 030918zd

I haven't taken the carb off...undone the screw on the bottom of the pot...plenty of gas there. It does have compression. Funny thing, as I am trying to start it, if I turn up the gas lever to give it more gas, it sounds real funny, almost like there is no compression. Basically with the gas lever at the low setting, it sounds like it wants to start, but if I turn up the gas, it doesn't. I hope that makes sense.

Thanks,
Matt
 
  #7  
Old 11-17-15, 03:56 AM
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I know that you said you have "spark"; but this certainly sounds like a safety switch that requires continuity has lost it.
 

Last edited by Vermont; 11-17-15 at 04:49 AM.
  #8  
Old 11-17-15, 04:25 AM
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You don't state how the engine was last stopped, but I will assume it was by the ignition switch. I would remove the flywheel housing on the engine and remove the kill wire at the ignition module. Try starting the engine.
If it starts you have a short in the kill wiring that will have to be discovered and repaired.
If it doesn't start, you may have an offset in the key between the crankshaft and the flywheel. This condition changes the engine timing and it will not start. You can check this by removing the flywheel. Replace the key if it has been offset. Good luck.
 
  #9  
Old 11-17-15, 04:45 AM
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Beelzebob, the engine was last stopped via the key switch. I will try what you suggested with the kill wire tonight when I get home from work. I will keep everyone updated. A very sincere thank you to everyone for your help with this. I have replaced the motor once on this tractor...kinda don't want to have to do that again just before winter (I live in Michigan). I am hoping to be able to use my tractor for plowing my driveway.

Thanks,
Matt
 
  #10  
Old 11-17-15, 10:39 AM
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Is the spark plug wet? Is there gas coming out the muffler and/or does the oil smell like gas?
 
  #11  
Old 11-17-15, 11:25 AM
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Cheese,
I did notice some gas coming out of the muffler last night. I haven't checked to see if the spark plug is wet yet though.

Matt
 

Last edited by Divekennene; 11-17-15 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Added more info.
  #12  
Old 11-17-15, 02:38 PM
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I'll chime in again.

Yes check your oil for gas. Your bowl can have gas but if it's not going into the intake no gas is getting to the cylinder. But if you smell gas at the muffler you are getting it.

Yes check your flywheel key. It could be sheared.

Before all that trouble spray some gas in the carb to see if it will start or pop.

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  #13  
Old 11-17-15, 09:55 PM
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If there was gas coming out the exhaust, spraying gas in the carb will only make the problem worse. Don't mess with the flywheel key. Your carburetor needle is leaking and has flooded the engine. You'll need to take the plug out and crank the engine with the plug wire tied out of the way so that it can't create a spark. Let the gas clear out and fix the leaking carburetor. Then, if the oil is not thin and gassy smelling, start it up. If the gas it thin and gassy, change it first.
 

Last edited by cheese; 11-17-15 at 10:13 PM.
  #14  
Old 12-31-15, 01:52 PM
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Update

First, thank you everyone for your help so far on this...yes, I said so far. I took off the carb, cleaned it, soaked it overnight in carb cleaner, reassembled everything, checked the flywheel key (it is not sheared), and still the issue persists. When I turn it over with the throttle on low, it pops a little like it "wants" to start. As I turn up the throttle, once I get to about 1/2 throttle, the popping seems to go away and it sounds like the engine is turning over faster and what I imagine "no compression" sounds like. There are no pops, just the sound of the starter and the "whirring" of the engine rotating. I am starting to think either a bad piston ring or valve(s). Not sure what to do with it now. I am at a loss.

Matt
 
  #15  
Old 12-31-15, 04:15 PM
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I don't recall now if you ever verified that you have "spark" at the plug ?
 
  #16  
Old 12-31-15, 05:37 PM
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I have been following since the first post. It doesn't make sense that you turned it off and a lil while later it wouldn't start again. Are you getting STRONG spark or a weak one ?

I would put a compression test on it. You might try some low flammable fluid to spray in the carb. I don't like using starting fluid that much, but sometimes you have too.

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  #17  
Old 01-01-16, 03:51 AM
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Vermont & BoudreauxEunice,
I do have good spark at the plug. I will try a little starting fluid in the carb and get back with you.

I wouldn't consider myself an experienced mechanic but I have dealt with/fixed engine issues before but never this stubborn.

We were just running the tractor hauling a small trailer around the yard picking up leaves and sticks, shut it off for about 5 minutes, went to restart it and it wouldn't start. There wasn't any kind of warning, strange noises, etc.
Thanks for the advice.
 
  #18  
Old 01-31-16, 10:03 AM
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Okay, here's an update...I checked ALL of the safety switches...All good. I pulled the sparkplug out, touched it against the block, getting plenty of spark. I sprayed starter fluid into the combustion chamber, replaced the sparkplug, turned it over...nothing. I really don't know what else it could be. The flywheel key is still in place so the timing should be ok. My only guess at this point would be a bad valve, but I just don't know. I think it may be time for a new tractor
 
  #19  
Old 01-31-16, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Divekennene
". . . I think it may be time for a new tractor . . ."
That may be; but then you won't know how to solve this problem when the "new" tractor develops it.

Quite a bit of time has elapsed, and I didn't go back and re-read all of the past posts here; but did you ever perform the compression test that Eunice suggested a month ago ?

There's a house I often drive by about 8 miles from here, and where they have about 8 dead and dying lawn tractors in the yard . . . . each with a little problem which was too much for them to solve . . . . so they'd just give up and buy another one. After a while, a pattern emerges.
 

Last edited by Vermont; 01-31-16 at 11:18 AM. Reason: grammar
  #20  
Old 01-31-16, 12:46 PM
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I'm still of the belief that it's probably flooded.
 
  #21  
Old 01-31-16, 01:28 PM
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I have not tried the compression test yet. It is definitely not flooded. It has been sitting for a month now, I tried to start it today and...nothing. I am not super familiar with compression testing, however, I am mechanically inclined. If the compression test reads lower than it should, what would this point to as the cause? I am just trying to weight my financial options with this engine. Eventually I will get to a point where it is cheaper to replace the engine as a whole versus keep fixing things that it "might" be. A new engine runs about $600, and time and materials combined, I am almost to the point where it isn't worth fixing.
Matt
 
  #22  
Old 01-31-16, 01:45 PM
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How recently had the oil been changed . . . . sometimes, plain old dirty oil can cause a valve stem to get stuck.

Some people don't change their oil until it's as thick as molasses.
 
  #23  
Old 01-31-16, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Divekennene
". . . Eventually I will get to a point where it is cheaper to replace the engine as a whole versus keep fixing things that it "might" be . . ."
I wasn't aware that you had spent even one penny since visiting here Mid-November.
 
  #24  
Old 02-01-16, 02:18 AM
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I changed the oil last spring. The oil is in fairly normal "condition", it isn't unusually thick or dirty. I have probably spent about $100-$150 dollars on parts and about 10 hours or more trying to diagnose it. I will get a compression tester this week and see what that tells me. I will post the results here.
 
  #25  
Old 02-01-16, 12:25 PM
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I do believe I have identified the reason it won't start. I decided to pull the head off prior to compression testing as I figured I would most likely have to do that anyways. Here is a picture of what I found:
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Recommendations for my next steps?
Thanks,
Matt
 
  #26  
Old 02-01-16, 01:17 PM
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Best to remove the valve to continue, which will require valve spring compression tool. Briggs makes one that can be bought at most auto parts stores for under 15.00. Depending on how beat up the seat is, it might just be better to get a new one which should not cost much, and install a seat.
 
  #27  
Old 02-01-16, 02:32 PM
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If the block material is good around the seat you can put in a new seat. If it's beat up or burned out, you may need a new block or take that one to machine shop for rebuilding. Hopefully you can put in a new seat and go from there.

What you do with that is take out the valve and clean the machining for the seat without removing any material from the block. Then sit the new seat in place, put the valve back in with the spring in place. That will locate the seat against the valve facing. Then with a center punch make a ring of pings around the valve seat about half an inch out, 1/4 -3/8 inch apart. Don't go very deep with the pings. Then do two more rings of pings moving toward the seat with each ring. That will swell the aluminum against the seat and hold it in place.
 
  #28  
Old 02-01-16, 02:44 PM
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Thanks everyone for your help on this...I will get a tool and the parts this week. Hopefully by this weekend I can have everything fixed and running again. I will update as I go.
Thanks again,
Matt
 
  #29  
Old 02-01-16, 05:48 PM
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Well it wasn't a stuck valve but worse than a stuck valve. Cheese was the first to say compression then I recommended a comp check. That intake valve seat will cause a very much loss on your comp.
 
  #30  
Old 02-01-16, 08:37 PM
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I have some numbers for you for the briggs Valve spring compression tool:

7-05234 replaces 19163, mine was $8.78 but several years ago.

I rather doubt your head is beat up too much, might even be able to clean it up by hand if any nicks or such. If any question then certainly get opinions from reputable sources... Main thing is to have a rather firm fit of the seat before peening it.

Also might not hurt to lap the valve and seat. This can be done easily. They actually make a tool with a suction cup and a wooden handle for a few bucks but you can come up with other methods.
Once the seat is installed, clean the valve mating surface as much as possible, then install it onto the seat. Use some Rubbing compound and coat both the contact areas for the valve and seat. Insert the valve and rotate the valve back and forth to mate the seat to the valve face.

Make sure and clean the compound off then install the valve and spring.
Also, aiding in removing the valve and keepers, a good small magnet on a pick handle end or extendable wand as well as a good pick or small screw driver.
 
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Old 02-01-16, 10:49 PM
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If the seat looks decent, I wouldn't even pull the valve. Just put it back in position and peen it in while the valve holds it there and get it back to work. Looks like this thing has overheated. The gasket was blown, the exhaust valve got really hot, and the valve seat popped out (aluminum block got too hot). Is there grass packed in the cooling fins? Was it run without the engine shroud in place? Need to solve the heat issue as well or there will be more problems.

90% of the time you can just pop the seat back in and peen it with no more worries.
 
  #32  
Old 02-02-16, 04:34 AM
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Something to keep in mind when using your little tractor. A lot of running for a short time with shutting off and starting will heat up an air cooled engine. It's better to let them run at just above idle. That keeps it cooled to operating temperature and the combustion chamber will stay cleaner.
 
  #33  
Old 02-02-16, 04:59 AM
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Thanks everyone for your advice. There was quite a bit of grass clippings built up on the fins...although we are pretty good about blowing it out with an air compressor after we are done mowing, obviously we didn't do it good enough. In the future, I will make sure that all of the grass gets cleaned out real good.

I am going to get the parts today (gaskets) so I can get this thing running again. Again, I will update as I move forward.

Thanks again,
Matt
 
  #34  
Old 02-02-16, 01:42 PM
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I've also simply popped them back in as cheese said. Usually having the tools and being that deep into it, I just remove the valve as much for cleaning and inspection purposes. It also gives a chance to check the valve clearance.

Especially on riding mowers, it is a good idea to pull the shrouds a couple times a year and do a thorough cleaning. Also good idea to check after any time being stored as varmints love to nest up in there
 
  #35  
Old 02-05-16, 07:44 AM
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Update....I pinged around the freshly seated valve seat and it is running. It seems to run pretty good, I just need to get some good gas in it and I may need to adjust my idle speed screw...it seems to idle lower than it did. It does seem quieter than it did just before it died in the fall.

Thanks everyone for your help. I sincerely appreciate it.
Matt
 
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Old 02-06-16, 01:56 AM
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