Kohler Engine K301 series Magneto output

Reply

  #1  
Old 01-19-16, 02:59 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Kohler Engine K301 series Magneto output

I have a Miller/Kohler engine welder.
Cannot get any power or weld from theMiller welder.
Have checked various bits on Welder and found no problems, am wondering if excitation from Engine Magneto is weak.
Engine is K301 series: s/n 3188850 spec no: 47215B I assume it it a magneto ignition and there are no charging circuits visible. One wire comes out from engine to a small condenser and on to the contact breaker. A further wire takes off from the condenser to the Welder and I assume this is for the excitation current. Engine runs fine, but I wonder if magneto output is weak? Does anyone know what the Magneto output should be and how best to check it>
Thanks, Malcg
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 01-19-16, 05:29 AM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,729
Not an expert as to how the welder is setup but, the K301 is the 12 HP usually with the battery fed ignition/points/condenser. Just about everything for starting and running goes through the battery. The charging circuit is likely an alternator setup inside the flywheel, then a rectifier to get the DC current for the battery charge. The wire coming off the condenser would be battery fed/switched power.

That may very well be the source of power to excite the welder field, I'm not sure, but I would think that would be switched battery power - around 13 - 13.4 volts. If the engine is running OK the voltage there is probably OK. A bad condenser would cause a problem with the engine ignition.

That engine may be setup differently for a welder, I couldn't say.

You may want to repost this down in electrical to see if some of those guys that work with this type of stuff will jump in.
 

Last edited by marbobj; 01-19-16 at 07:08 AM.
  #3  
Old 01-19-16, 03:22 PM
31YTech's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: EveryWhere
Posts: 1,263
Hello Malcg,


If the engine starts and runs fine your issue isn't with the engine but the welder/generator end of it, the wire from the contact breaker/condenser to the welder is the kill or shut down lead going to the start switch.

You can Google the welder model number and maybe find a service manual which will have troubleshooting flow charts for the welder part of it, I've found them for the few I've worked on over the years.

Good Luck,

31
 
  #4  
Old 01-20-16, 03:37 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Thanks, for the update, I have found and downloaded the Parts and Owners Manuals, for both the engine and the Miller welder, but the wire from the engine, which casues Welder generate to start excitation seems to fall into the gap between both.

My engine has magneto ignition, and no battery, and no start switch.

The wire to the welder just taps off the condenser, whilst the wire originating from the magneto inside the engine runs to the condenser and on to the contact breaker.

Malcg
 
  #5  
Old 01-20-16, 03:40 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Hi, there is no battery, or starter, it has a magneto and a cord pull start.
Although engine starts ( via pull cord) and runs fine the spark plug spark does not look very bright, and I am just wondering if the magneto is weak, and not generating enough for the welder to work.

I was just hoping I could put a multimeter on the output wire and see how that compares to whatever I should be getting.

I will take your advice and repost also onto the electrical guys.

Many thanks, Malcg
 
  #6  
Old 01-20-16, 08:38 AM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,729
I understand what you have now. The K301 isn't normally setup like that in other applications, but a typical lawn mower engine prior to 1986 uses that ignition system. The updated version of it is an ignition module without the points and condenser.

I'm back to not knowing what the voltage should read where you're asking. Since the voltage is coming off the ignition system for the engine, though it would be reasonable to say the mag output must be OK if the engine is running well.

Hopefully the pros down in electrical can shed some light on it.
 
  #7  
Old 01-20-16, 03:00 PM
31YTech's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: EveryWhere
Posts: 1,263
Hello Malcg,


I looked up your engine and saw you have a magneto ignition system with points and condenser, but you still have to have some type switch toggle or another type to shut the engine off mounted on the welder control panel. The wire going from the condenser to the welder is for shutting the engine off only, the magneto ignition system on this engine doesn't have anything to do with exciting anything inside the welder to generate power.

Least not any welder/generator I've ever seen in 30+ years.....

Good Luck

31
 
  #8  
Old 01-21-16, 06:04 AM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: upstate New York
Posts: 377
welder

Hi, I don't have an answer for you, but there are 2 web sites that will be able to help you for sure: weldingweb.com and a dedicated Miller site (google it). Both have lots of smart tech folks that I'm sure can help. Steve
 
  #9  
Old 01-22-16, 02:09 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Thanks, will hope for the electrical pros!
 
  #10  
Old 01-22-16, 02:17 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 8
There is definitely a wire takes off from the condenser which goes to the welder - I can also see that from the welder wiring diagram (that is as well as that wire which continues from the condenser to the stop button/contact breaker)
There are also two wires which run back from the condenser to a microswitch set against the throttle lever. When the throttle is fully opened the microswitch is activated.
All this is shown on the Welder wiring diagram.
The Multimeter reading from the wire from the condenser to the welder is very uneven, we thought it should be about 12-14 ac v but it is all over the place, from 2-3v
 
  #11  
Old 01-22-16, 02:21 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 8
I am trying the welding web, but it seems the Miller expert guy on it has not yet found my posting!
Thanks, will see what other sites I can find.
 
  #12  
Old 01-22-16, 03:30 AM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Iowa!!!!!
Posts: 3,729
There apparently is more to the electrical path of the current coming off the engine ignition than just running/killing the engine. Kills are often set up on the throttle's lowest position or on a kill switch. That sounds like the welder is asking for a current when the engine starts to drive the welder generator for welding. That would account for the full throttle switch. It would allow the engine to hit higher rpms slightly before the load of the welder was placed on it. It may have another solenoid driven switch on the welder. If that's the case the switch on the welder may not be activating - just a possibility.

The voltage taken at the wire coming off the condenser, if also connected to the contact breaker points for the engine ignition would normally vary a lot since the points would be opening (no ground), then closing (grounding). That rapid sequence would move the needle alot.

The voltage we were talking about before was for an ignition with a battery feed. That voltage wouldn't apply to what you have there.
 

Last edited by marbobj; 01-22-16 at 04:04 AM.
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes