Kohler ch25s SAM elimination.

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  #1  
Old 02-28-16, 02:59 PM
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Kohler ch25s SAM elimination.

Hello- I have a Kohler Command Pro ch25 with the speed advance module that I would like to eliminate. From what I can see, it would take replacing the two 12v fed ignition coils with standard coils. Splicing my white kill (ground) wire as to run to both coils. Deadhead the 12v supply for thr SAM. Am I missing anything?
Thanks in advance!
 
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Old 02-28-16, 07:01 PM
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The only thing missing is diodes in the kill wire to keep the coils from backfeeding to each other through the kill wire. As far as I know that's all.

Are you having problems with the SAM?
 
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Old 02-29-16, 04:16 AM
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Hello Dave Rischar,

I knew Kohler offered a ignition "kit" that takes the place of the old SAM ignition system, upon looking up the part number for this kit using a "basic" engine spec. number I ran across this;


Engine(s) with this part are an ASAM (Analog) Ignition system. All parts are available, order as required. DO NOT CONVERT to newer DSAM/DSAI (digital) Ignition systems with kit or parts as operating/performance problems will occur.
You may be fighting a loosing battle with this conversion, if you will post the spec. number off the decal on your flywheel cover, I will dig deeper and see if this applies to your engine.....


31
 
  #4  
Old 02-29-16, 01:52 PM
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Ch 25 specs

Here is the specs for the Kohler engine.

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  #5  
Old 03-01-16, 01:26 PM
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Well... Here is what the folks have to say...
Thanks for your inquiry. The only way to update this to MDI ignition is to use a 24 025 58-S flywheel and the 25 707 03-S coil kit. The timing advance and curve are different on your analog flywheel than the digital one.

Sincerely,
Jeff Willman,
Kohler Engine Service.
Why would the flywheel need replaced?
 
  #6  
Old 03-01-16, 02:59 PM
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Hello Dave Rischar,


Sorry I hadn't gotten back sooner, I was off work yesterday.


Why would the flywheel need replaced?
The magnet poles are different and the flywheel key slot is in a different position.

You can still buy the SAM module HERE if your sure your coils are still good, if you don't have the coil test specs. and procedure, I can post that up.....


31
 
  #7  
Old 03-02-16, 12:21 AM
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Hmm, good to know. I have never tried to change one from SAM to standard. I wouldn't have expected the flywheel to be different.
 
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Old 07-01-16, 09:25 AM
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flywheel difference?

31YTech,
What is the difference between the magnetic poles on digital vs. analog flywheel?

I've got a 27HP with digital speed advance module that I used a flywheel off of a 25 hp older analog speed advance module engine. only difference I saw was the 10-12 degrees less advance on the 25hp version.
I see you mentioned something about magnetic poles but I'm thinking that's between old ignition and SAM and not ASAM vs. DSAM. ???

engine seems to run great with no load and I put a timing light on it and can see advance change with RPM but once you put a load on it is underpowered big time. it cant maintain rpm just trying to drive the mower full speed without the deck even on...

Help?

I'm down to thinking it's a weak coil or the flywheel being difference but I didn't;'t think 10 degrees would affect it that much. figured it would just put power out similar to the 25 hp it was off of.
 
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Old 07-01-16, 01:35 PM
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Welcome to the forums.

It would be quicker to send a PM to 31yTech. He hasn't been here in several months.
 
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Old 07-01-16, 03:26 PM
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10-12 degrees is substantial when considering ignition timing...I don't have first hand experience with this issue but I would tend to think that is why.

Thanks for your inquiry. The only way to update this to MDI ignition is to use a 24 025 58-S flywheel and the 25 707 03-S coil kit. The timing advance and curve are different on your analog flywheel than the digital one.

Sincerely,
Jeff Willman,
Kohler Engine Service.
Coils don't really get weak unless the air gap is wrong or there is some corrosion build up causing the air gap to be off. You could have one not firing at all or only intermittently, to test this, simply use an insulated tool to remove the plug wire from each cylinder one at a time. You should notice a SLIGHT drop in RPM but still run smooth for the most part. If it dies when you pull one off, the other is the culprit.
Also inspect your spark plugs, is one wet with fuel, one grey to white? That can also give an indication.
 
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Old 07-01-16, 05:48 PM
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I agree with BFHfixit, 10-12 degrees is a lot.
 
  #12  
Old 07-01-16, 06:10 PM
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flywheel

i thought it was a big difference too but everything I'm reading is saying that the only difference between the 25 hp and 27hp is cam lift and the 10-12 degrees more advance of the 27hp. so i figured it would be like making it a 25 hp.

i set the air gap to .010" and read later that maybe it should be .012" wouldn't think that would cause it though right?

i did pull off each plug and it acs the same on both sides. slows down rpm but keep chugging along..


ill look for the pm link. didn't see it earlier. i'm new to this forum. figured if i replied it might send a message to everyone previously on it.

thank you all!
 
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