Is It The Battery 2135 Cub Cadet CHS13 Kohler

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  #1  
Old 07-04-17, 11:36 AM
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Question Is It The Battery 2135 Cub Cadet CHS13 Kohler

Well sir ... my machine won't start ... it was starting fine for a while then I started having problems. I'm not getting anything not even a click. It happen before and when I tried it the next day it started. I did some work with it hauling dirt ...it started fine ... then later on when I tried to start it again I got a brief click noise like it was going to start ... then nothing. I tried to jump start it, still nothing. I checked the fuse and it looks good. Is is the battery or something else?
 

Last edited by spirittoo; 07-04-17 at 12:06 PM. Reason: wanted to mention the fuse
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  #2  
Old 07-04-17, 01:03 PM
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A bad battery shouldn't give you the on/off thing. There should be two heavy posts on the starter solenoid. Try jumping across those two. If it starts ok, the problem may be the starter solenoid itself or in the wiring back towards the switch or the switch itself..
 
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Old 07-04-17, 01:13 PM
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Clean and inspect all of your primary electrical connects; both battery terminals, at the starter, and where the negative cable is grounded. I agree that it doesn't really sound like a battery problem, but, if you want to confirm, disconnect the battery cables, charge the battery, and take it to your local independent lawn equipment dealer or an auto parts store, and they can put a load tester on it. A volt meter is not an effective way to check a battery.
 
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Old 07-04-17, 08:13 PM
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I agree it really sounds like a bad connection, probably at the battery itself or at the negative cable where it bolts to the frame.
 
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Old 07-05-17, 09:27 AM
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Thumbs down Checked Connections Still No Go

Wellsir ... I tried to jump the starter, but nothing.:NO NO NO: I checked my connections and I tested the fuse to make sure it was good with a multimeter ... it was. I'm at a complete and total lost now. I added the photos to give a better idea what is going on. Shouldn't jumping the starter by pass everything? I touch the jumper cables together and I got a spark so they should be good.
 
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  #6  
Old 07-05-17, 10:04 AM
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You have the red jumper on the battery cable. If you're not getting anything with the jumpers hooked up like you have them take the red jumper off the starter post and touch it to the other large post on the starter solenoid. It's the other one right by the post you're hooked up to now.

If it spins the starter, use a test light on the small wire on the solenoid and check it for current when you turn the key to start. If you have current at the small wire you may have a bad solenoid on the starter.

If no current at the small wire the problem is likely in the wiring going back to the switch, the switch itself, or a safety switch.
 
  #7  
Old 07-05-17, 11:40 AM
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Arrow Did some tests

Okay ... I used my multimeter and found that 12v is reaching the starter ... I put the jumper to the other bolt on the starter, and it does spin ... I haven't figured out how to check for the current yet ... will post again when I find out.

Question I won't be able to jump start the engine without the starter?
 
  #8  
Old 07-05-17, 12:46 PM
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Arrow Jump started

Okay ... I was able to get it to start by bridging the two bolts on the starter ... Unfortunately the PTO will not engage Could it be the battery doesn't have enough power to run the PTO ... I've got the battery on the charger and will charge it until this evening about 4 hours and see if the PTO will start ... if not I will take the battery to a auto store and have them test it. Mean while I guess I need a new starter? And if the battery test good ... what of the PTO problem
 
  #9  
Old 07-05-17, 02:22 PM
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Don't change the starter. Hook your jumpers directly to the battery in the mower. Then see if you can bridge over the two posts on the starter. If that spins the starter, check for current at the small wire with the key in "start". If you have current there, the solenoid may be bad. You don't replace the starter to fix that - just the solenoid.

If you have it started with an auxiliary battery jumping it leave that battery hooked up and see if the PTO works.
 
  #10  
Old 07-05-17, 05:46 PM
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Thumbs down Still No PTO

Wellsir ... I took the battery to an auto store and it tested good, but the machine did not have the ability to put a load on it ... so I when and brought a new battery ... hook it up started it by bridging the starter ... still no PTO ... now what do I do?

Also I think the PTO switch is good because when I try to engage it when I'm not sitting in the seat the engine will dog.
 

Last edited by spirittoo; 07-05-17 at 05:51 PM. Reason: Think the PTO switch is good
  #11  
Old 07-05-17, 06:59 PM
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Will it start off the switch with the new battery? If not did you check the current at the small wire on the starter solenoid? It all may be related to a safety switch.
 
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Old 07-05-17, 07:25 PM
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Arrow Solenoid is Bad

No the engine will not start with the new battery I still have to bridge the solenoid for it to start. My problem now is the PTO will not engage ... I'm trying to figure out why. I saw no way to check the current at the small wire, but I didn't think it necessary since I know the solenoid is bad. Will it prevent the PTO from engaging?
 
  #13  
Old 07-05-17, 07:58 PM
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If you don't have current at the small wire there's no way to tell if the solenoid is bad since that current actuates it.

The PTO not working may be related to not having current at the small wire, if that's the case. Or the problem with the PTO may be separate. Since both problems are showing up at the same time, there's a good chance they are related.

You can check the current with a multimeter or a test light.
 
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Old 07-06-17, 08:39 AM
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Question No Current If Checked Right

I'm not sure I did this correctly ... I used my multimeter and put the pos. probe in the clip and the neg on the neg post of the battery ... I had the key in the on position. I got no reading. In the picture you can see there is a opening in the wire in the two shots. I tried there for a reading and got nothing. Did I do that right? Am I checking the correct wire? Were do I go from here?
 
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  #15  
Old 07-06-17, 10:17 AM
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You have the two posts you bridge across to start it. There is a spade connector right at the top/between those two posts. Remove the small wire, put a paper clip in the female clip end. Attach your red from the multimeter to the paper clip and the black to ground. Then turn the key to start and check the reading. If nothing you probably have a problem with a safety switch like the seat switch or a wire connection. Since this whole thing was erratic, the seat switch may be the culprit.

We'll see if Cheese or BFH will weigh in to help out.
 
  #16  
Old 07-06-17, 11:06 AM
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You've got him on the right track marbobj. I'm waiting to see if he has voltage while trying to start on the spade terminal.

Make sure you have the pedal pressed and everything you normally have to do to start the mower while checking for that voltage.
 
  #17  
Old 07-06-17, 11:59 AM
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Arrow Did as instructed ...

Okay I stuck the positive probe into the female clip hooked up to the wire. I put the neg. probe on the neg pole of the battery. I started the engine bridging the solenoid and got no reading for current ... if I did it right. As far as volts go I am getting .561 v ... So you say it something with the safety switch ... how do I correct this ... Is there a way to temp. over ride it so I can get the grass cut

And cheese fyi ... I'm a old woman trying to keep an another old woman running so I can cut my grass.
 
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Old 07-06-17, 12:41 PM
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Arrow Nothing Happen

I disconnected those two yellow wires from the switch in the hopes the tractor would start ... it did not ... I also took a clip to bridge the two clips on the wire together ... still no start. Shouldn't I be able to start the tractor with those wires disconnected from the switch?
 
  #19  
Old 07-06-17, 01:47 PM
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Don't worry about actually starting the mower. We just have to determine if you get current to the small wire that attaches to the starter solenoid when you go through your normal starting procedure. That tells us a lot. If you normally sit on the mower, push down the pedal, and turn the key all the way to the tight, do that and tell us what the reading is for current at the wire.

That wire should have current when you try to start the mower and not when it's running. Don't bridge the posts when you check for current, just sit on the mower, push down the pedal, and turn the key all the way to the right. If you have a starter button, turn the key all the way to the right and push on the button and tell what the current on the small wire is.
 
  #20  
Old 07-06-17, 03:39 PM
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*Good thread and info*

I am thinking the PTO switch as the problem. It is tied into the safety circuit a couple different ways. It is also a common part to fail.
I doubt you have voltage where marbobj is trying to get you too...with the key turned hard to the start position.
 
  #21  
Old 07-06-17, 03:54 PM
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Arrow Very Small Reading

Okay ... with the meter set on mA I am getting a reading of .01 mA.when I turn the key as I do when starting ... it goes back to 0 when I stop ... so if a little is something it is getting a small amount of current. What does this indicate?
 
  #22  
Old 07-06-17, 04:02 PM
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I know of no way to test the PTO switch except to change it out. An Oregon brand replacement should be around 15 bux.
One way to check the seat and brake switch....get the engine running, then set the brake and get off the seat. If it continues to run the brake switch is good.
Next with it running and the brake OFF, lift off the seat, if it dies, the seat switch is good.
 
  #23  
Old 07-06-17, 04:15 PM
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Your reading on the current isn't enough to actuate the solenoid. You have a problem upstream in the circuit from the solenoid. Don't change anything at the starter, yet.
 
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Old 07-06-17, 04:28 PM
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agree with marbobj and to verify you can use a small jumper wire from the big post to where the small wire connects. If the starter engages then the solenoid and starter are good.
 
  #25  
Old 07-06-17, 05:11 PM
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Actually the meter needs to be set to DC volts, not mA, before we can know what's happening.

Sorry Spiritoo for the gender assumption, lol... the majority of members asking questions are male and your avatar little guy just made me assume I guess.
 
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Old 07-06-17, 05:30 PM
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Yes I did check for voltage cheese I reported it in my last post it was .561 volts.

No problem about the gender ... I get it all the time. Just happen to like that character that all.
 
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Old 07-06-17, 05:35 PM
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Upsteam?

I'm not sure I understand about upstream in the circuit ... where would that be located? Is it in one of the pictures I posted?

Fixit ... let me see if I got this ... take the small blue wire and bridge it with the terminal on the starter that has the positive lead on it and try starting it? I am unable to bridge the starter terminal to anything because it has a constant 12 volts.
 
  #28  
Old 07-06-17, 07:09 PM
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BFH was describing jumping current from the battery cable post on the solenoid to the spade connector. Once you supply current to that spade terminal the solenoid will actuate and the starter will spin over.

"Upstream" is just in the circuit before you get to the solenoid. Hillbilly talk
 
  #29  
Old 07-06-17, 10:41 PM
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"Yes I did check for voltage cheese I reported it in my last post it was .561 volts."

Okay, I was thinking you were testing the circuit again (after your first test with the voltage reading) with the seat switch bypassed in mA instead of volts. The seat switch can't be bypassed by unplugging it or jumping it though, the connector has a shunt in it to prevent it from being bypassed.

Check for voltage on each of the wires (probably one of the orange ones) on the back of the PTO switch while trying to start it. One may have full time voltage... ignore that. You're looking for one that is hot when you try to start it and not when you release the key. Let us know if you find one that behaves that way.
 
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Old 07-07-17, 10:04 AM
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Are these wires posted in one of my photo? I'm not sure I follow ... I'll see if I can figure it out ... I'll post my results.
 
  #31  
Old 07-07-17, 10:43 AM
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Your last photo is the pto switch connector. It has a rectangular connector with up to 9 terminals on it.
 
  #32  
Old 07-07-17, 11:11 AM
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Arrow Not Sure I'm Doing This Right

I checked for power at the PTO there is nothing with the key turn on or trying to start the engine... I tried checking those orange wires that go to the switch ... as far as I could tell there was no reading when I turn the key. I had the brake on while trying to start. I tried putting the probe in the switch where the wires go and touching the terminals on the switch where the orange wires go ... no reading.:NO NO NO: I don't know if I did it right though.
 
  #33  
Old 07-07-17, 05:24 PM
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Check the inline fuse, it should be coming from a small red wire on the solenoid.
 
  #34  
Old 07-07-17, 05:50 PM
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Arrow I see two fuses

I have two fuses as far as I can tell no fuse no red wires near the solenoid. You can tell there is nothing there by the photo I posted. I checked both fuses with the ohm meter and they both read 0.
 
  #35  
Old 07-07-17, 08:13 PM
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Okay do you have voltage on both sides of both fuses? I don't know where they are on that mower but they are tied in some way to the same red cable that goes to your solenoid, maybe farther up the cable or on the battery side. Was just trying to point you in the direction of where the fuse(s) "normally" are located in case you didn't know where to look...
 

Last edited by cheese; 07-07-17 at 09:32 PM.
  #36  
Old 07-08-17, 11:46 AM
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Arrow It Started On It's Own ... I Don't Know Why

I was checking the two fuse ... the 25 Amp fuse has 12.5 volts on both ends whether the key is on or off ... the 20 Amp doesn't show any reading while the key is off with the key on I'm getting a little over a half a volt on the one end ...nothing on the other. While checking that fuse I turn the key in the start position and it started on its' own ... I have no idea why.

However the PTO still will not engage.

I posted pictures of the fuses ... the wires go in two different directions, but I think the wire to the fuses goes to the ignition. I'm getting 12 v reading from a couple of the terminals on the ignition, a small volt reading on the clip attached to the ignition.

Are we getting close to a solution?I don't see the good of it starting on it's own when I don't know why or why the PTO still won't engage.
 
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  #37  
Old 07-08-17, 07:15 PM
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It started because you are getting close to the problem area, a bad connection. Check the terminals on the back of the keyswitch and make sure the battery terminal isn't badly rusted... a common problem area.

Also, did you check the fuses from the back or from the test tab on top? The fuse related to the bad connection particularly.
 
  #38  
Old 07-08-17, 09:01 PM
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Arrow Should I Pull The Ignition?

I tested the fuses by inserting the positive probe inside each leg of the clip with the fuse still in.

I will pull the ignition and clean it good and see what happens in the morning. I will report the results.
 
  #39  
Old 07-09-17, 08:50 AM
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Arrow Back To Where We Started ... No Start

Wellsir ... I tried to clean the terminals on the switch as best I could ... check out the photos of the plug. I can't figure out how to remove the ignition switch. Of course it won't start anymore. So where do we go from here?
 
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  #40  
Old 07-09-17, 09:26 AM
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Do you know which of the leads plugs into the female receptacle that's all charred ?

It looks like it shorted out onto something that was close to the harness plug under the dash, and burnt right through it.
 
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