Simplicity Tractor wiring

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  #1  
Old 10-03-17, 02:24 PM
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Simplicity Tractor wiring

The wiring on the only service manual I can get from Simplicity for my 1692135 Sunstar Tractor does not show the correct wiring diagram for the model I have. This unit has had a problem since i bought it of taking 7 or 8 turns of the key to engage the starter. My model has two soliniods in the starter circuit, one behind the dash and one that rides piggy back on the starter itself. Where can I get a schematic for this model?
 
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  #2  
Old 10-05-17, 11:01 AM
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That seems a little tough to come up with. You are wanting the diagram or just fix the problem? Just getting it to start you can go directly from the switch hot post to the starter solenoid wire. That's assuming the starter assembly is good and there isn't a safety switch issue that grounds it out. If you have a "no spark" you can disconnect the kill wire off the coil to diagnose it.

The kicker is the solenoid/circuit breaker in the dash is likely the juncture for all the safety switch stuff. You can check the solenoid wire on the starter when you turn the key. If it takes the seven turns to get juice to that wire, the problem is upstream. That could be anything from the ignition switch to wiring to safety switches.

You could just replace the dash solenoid and it may take care of it. I don't know what they cost.
 
  #3  
Old 10-06-17, 01:59 PM
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Simplicity Trator Wiring

The dash solenoid is new, made no difference from the old. The hot lead from the battery goes directly to the solinoid on top of the starting motor so is always hot. There IS a small blue wire with a spade connector mounted directly below the big Hot wire. I was hoping a wiring diagram would show me where this wire was coming from so I could troubleshoot from there. I will try hooking a meter to that connector to see if that is intermittent as well.
 
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Old 10-06-17, 02:55 PM
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Your battery cable is always hot on the starter solenoid. The small blue wire is the actuation power for the starter solenoid. That is a keyed power coming down from either the switch directly, but most likely the solenoid you have replaced.

Coming off the key switch itself you would have a hot from battery. That would be passed on to the dash solenoid or possibly directly to the starter solenoid, depending on the safety circuit.

Check for power at the blue wire on the starter first when you turn the key. That solenoid may be bad due to corroded contacts. You can feel it click when you turn the key if the solenoid is actuating and the problem is likely either the solenoid contacts or the starter itself.

If you have nothing at that blue wire on one turn of the key, go back to the ignition switch and see if you have the hot feed and the power out with the key turn. That checks the switch.

Probably the blue wire on the starter is blue coming off the dash solenoid/circuit breaker if that is in the circuit with safety switches.

Having to turn the key multiple times is consistent with solenoid contacts being corroded.
 
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Old 10-06-17, 03:28 PM
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I would check for power on the B terminal of the switch. if no voltage you have a wiring or safety switch, you can test the switch by checking continuity (with the switch unplugged) from B to S with the key in the start position.
 
  #6  
Old 10-06-17, 03:59 PM
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Simplicity Tractor Wiring

Right now i have the engine loose to facilitate fixing a leak in a hydro input shaft seal. I will remove the shaft to keep it from flopping around and try the tests you suggest!
 
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Old 10-18-17, 12:14 PM
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Simplicity Tractor Wiring

The tractor is up an running with no hydraulic leaks. I had a handy neighbor come over and we tested the blue wire for voltage. I only get 6 volts to the wire when I turn the key most of the time which is not enough to engage the solenoid on top of the starter. We can feel it try to engage but it wont. When it occasionally Does get 12 volts, it engages and starts normally. We think the problem is somewhere in the circuit than contains the blue wire but do not have a schematic yet to trace it.
 
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Old 10-18-17, 02:23 PM
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Did you find the hot feed to the switch and the power out from the switch? If so was that 12v in and 12v out?
 
  #9  
Old 10-19-17, 07:25 AM
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Simplicity Tractor Wiring

I will have a complete wiring diagram today to find and check everything. I will definitely be checking the switch feeds too.

Thanks!
 
  #10  
Old 10-21-17, 07:51 AM
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Simplicity Tractor Wiring

With the Right wiring diagram in hand. and an assistant with a volt/ ohm meter checking contact points. this is where we are. The blue wire that needs 12 volts at the solenoid on top of the starter is only getting a full 12 volts intermittently. I have a full 12 going into the Key Switch at all times and full 12 to the dash solenoid. The Orange wire that runs from the dash soliniod taps into a junction that catches the blue wire to the solenoid on top of the starter. I also see a green wire in that same junction that comes from an engine oil pressure sending unit and goes to the dash mounted oil pressure light. THIS light stays on all the time, even with plenty of oil pressure (brand new oil pump was installed this year just in case, even though I always had good oil pressure) I am trying to figure out if this may have something to do with it, but testing or disabling this is outside of my pay grade right now. Meanwhile I am testing the safety switches to see if there is an excess resistance prob with on of them..If anyone can help with the oil pressure light issue, I am all ears!
 
  #11  
Old 10-21-17, 08:09 AM
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When the starter kicks in does it go ahead and run OK? Is this your mower or are you working on for someone? You can fix the starting issue by going directly to the starter blue wire hookup from the power out on the switch. Any safety switches that prevent the starter engaging would be bypassed.

If the problem is a wire connection, you may find it by hooking up your volt meter to the blue wire hookup on the starter and wiggle some wires. Or since the oil pressure light is staying on you may have something grounded. Grounding is the way most oil sensors and gas gauges (that type of thing) work.

Dis connect the oil pressure sensor wire, for testing, and see if you get the 12 volts at the starter.
 
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Old 10-21-17, 10:33 AM
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Is there any way you can take a pic and post of the wiring diagram?
Not sure if I completely agree with marbobj....

Oil pressure switch should be N/C with power going to the contact, ground is achieved through the switch to the threads on the engine. With oil pressure the switch should open and let the light go out. Only one wire on this switch?

I also think the blue wire on the starter solenoid should not tie in with any other wire as the only time it should be hot is with the key in the start position.

I am not sure about Simplicity but many systems will cut power or ground to the S on the key switch through the safety switches IE: If a switch has failed or is not made, you will get no power or gnd to the key start position. IOW routing power to the starter as marbobj suggests may not bypass the safety switches.
 
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Old 10-21-17, 10:50 AM
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You have a Kohler engine? Can you give the model and spec #'s? The wiring for the Tractor is incomplete I think and you also need the wiring for the engine.
 
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Old 10-21-17, 11:06 AM
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Page 37 of this manual should be close if not it for the engine wiring. It shows the blue wire going directly from the key to the solenoid with no junction. The green single wire from the oil switch goes directly to the lamp then changes color to yellow to the key and an accessory. So it is powered by the key switch and grounded with contact to the engine.

At any rate your starting issue is likely the blue wire being tied in to the green wire. As long as the oil switch is not a sentry, you don't need it to run.
 
  #15  
Old 10-22-17, 07:37 AM
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Simplicity tractor Wiring

I never can get stuff to post using your normal inst ructions, the commands I need to respond to never light up so I can enter the picture. I CAN scan the diagram and send it to an e-mail address if you have one I can use.on your end. The Engine is a Kohler CH20S
(as in SAM) Spec number 64572 The Simplicity 1692135 is the only tractor I can find in the Sunstar series that is wired like I have and after several arguments with Simplicity Customer Service i finally went to a dealer who was kind enough to follow it all the way thru and find my Mower wiring diagram. My next play was to disconnect the oil pressure switch as you suggested, just have to find it.
 
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Old 10-22-17, 12:05 PM
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Did you look at this wiring diagram for your engine? https://www.kohler-engine-parts.opee...ISED_9_15J.pdf
 
  #17  
Old 10-23-17, 08:20 AM
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Simplicity tractor Wiring

Thank you for the Kohler Complete Service manual, I have loaded it into my laptop for a ny future reference. The wiring diagram for the engine lines up with the wiring diagram I finally got from the simplicity Dealer. The Oil pressure switch is accessable on top of the engine under the air cleaner, I put a new switch in 3 years ago. I tested the pressure with a guage after the new oil pump was put in last year and there is plenty of pressure. The light went out when it was supposed to fine until I took the engine out for the purpose of removing the pto shaft to fix the transmission seal. I will take another look at the oil switch connection now that it is all back together. i can also disconnect it to see if the green wire is part of the starting problem. It is getting easier starting, (not as many attempts with turns of the key before it kicks the starter over. The starter works fine jumping from the hot line to the actuater line on the solenoid, and yes I own this tractor. Your help is getting me closer to a complete fix, I'm sure.
 
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Old 10-23-17, 08:29 AM
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A possibility is the wire is disconnected from the sensor and touching ground.
 
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Old 10-26-17, 06:35 PM
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Simplicity tractor Wiring

Due to the fact that most of the safety switches I need to test are buried inside the dash panel and the wiring harnesses are too, I have made a temporary fix by wiring a jumper directly from the battery positive terminal to the dash mounted solenoid's large inboard terminal. I removed the small wire and grommet that was connected to it (this wire came from the same solenoid , just another smaller terminal on it) and left it hanging but taped up the grommet to prevent it shorting out) That allowed me to start the engine with the key every time. Now I can get thru leaf removal season and take the tractor apart to do a line by line, connection by connection test with no pressure. I may have said previously that I WAS getting 12 volts to the upper solenoid in a previous post. I was obviously wrong, as by doing this everything is working ok from the key on down, but probably bypassing some safety switches etc. When I the culprit, I will post back. Thanks for ALL the help! Great stuff!
 
  #20  
Old 10-27-17, 11:11 AM
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Simplicity Tractor Wiring

Does any aftermarket manufacturer make a remote oil pressure gauge that I could replace the idiot light set up that is on this Kohler presently. It is a model # CH20S Spec # 64512 It has plenty of oil pressure, runs hard every day, but the light just stays on. New sending unit, new oil pump, good reading on a tester, just wont close to turn out the light.
 
  #21  
Old 10-29-17, 12:48 PM
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I believe Kohler used the exact same sending unit that the old 1980s chevy small blocks used. You could put one in that opens and closes with pressure or one with a variable resistance for a gauge. If you pick up a sending unit from autozone for a 1985 chevy c10 with a 305, I believe it will fit directly and then you can add an electrical gauge, or you could just buy a generic gauge and run the small tube from the fitting to the gauge and get a real mechanical pressure reading.
 
  #22  
Old 11-01-17, 07:48 AM
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Simplicity tractor Wiring

I know you are right, as the socket tool I bought for a 1987 chevy cavalier to remove a leaking guage years ago dropped right over this one to remove it. Running an electric wire through the nest of snakes that is in this Simplicity would be lot easier than running a tube. I will see what autozone can do for me. Thanks! (by the way, the hot wire I ran to fix the low voltage condition to the starter solenoid did not interrupt any of the safety switch or on off lights for the on off toggles for PTO etc as far as I can see. I probably do have a goofy switch or contact somewhere, but I am sure not as worried about it)
 
  #23  
Old 11-10-17, 07:57 AM
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Simplicity Tractor Wiring

In regard to the Oil Pressure Switch, I went to and ordered a switch for a C10 but it was too large to fit inter the carburetor's air filter plate. I got a new switch to try that was like the old smaller one, bsut I still Have a steady light glowing on the dash. Tell me if Im wrong, but doesnt this system w isork on the premise that the grounded wire to the switch that allows the light to come on, the connection is broken when the pressure is ok and the light goes out? I seem to have continuity to the engine block between the wire that goes to the switch and the engine block all the time. Is this a short or supposed to be that way?

Do you guys have a lubricant that you like to use for the bendix drives on these starters? Once in awhile now the starter is spinning but not engaging with the flywheel. I thought the dirty environment on these engines discouraged the used of regular greases .
 
  #24  
Old 11-10-17, 09:23 AM
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With the switch in "off" is the wire grounded if disconnected from the sensor?

Don't use paste grease on the bendix shaft. Use graphite in liquid form. Spray it on and the liquid evaporates.
 
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Old 11-11-17, 08:26 AM
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Simplicity Tractor Wiring

With the tractor running, the light stays on all the time. The only way I can turn it off is to disconnect the wire from the sending unit on top of the engine, The switch is new, and so is the oil pump. Touching the wire to ground does not relight the light.

Thanks for the tip on the graphite, I will get some.

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  #26  
Old 11-11-17, 02:38 PM
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I would say that is a quiz. If the sending unit is one wire the only thing the sending unit can do in that circuit is to ground. Disconnecting it switches the light off. Touching the wire to a good ground should light it.

The power comes from the switch to the light. The ground side for the light comes up from the sending unit with no pressure=closed contacts and completed ground circuit. The light is on. With oil pressure the contacts open = no ground = no light.

Past that logic I couldn't say.
 
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Old 11-12-17, 12:32 PM
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Yeah, that's pretty strange to me as well.
I'd be inclined to think that the part of the engine that the wire was grounded to isn't properly grounded.
 
  #28  
Old 11-14-17, 07:55 AM
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Simplicity Tractor Wiring

I have lived with this light for 3 years now, and I know I have plenty of pressure, so I will finish up the season soon and try to get all the wires. I may have misled you with the when the light is on (where the wires were) Now I know that the pressure switch completes the circuit to allow the light to light up, I can go back from there to see where I might have a short in the line to the light itself...
thanks for your patience!
 
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