Good battery but dead motor

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  #1  
Old 05-12-18, 07:29 PM
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Good battery but dead motor

My wife was mowing and shut off the mower. I then went to go mow another part and it wouldnít start, just click. Eventually it wouldnít even click. The battery is fully charged. Iíve replaced the starter sylinoid and the ignition switch. Iíve tested the safety switches for the arms, seat, break, and blades... all are working. Iíve tested each relay, theyíre working. All of the fuses are good.

Iím at a loss where to look next.

Bad Boy ZT Elite 2015
 
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  #2  
Old 05-12-18, 07:53 PM
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Check battery cables & connections at both ends with a volt meter & clean them. The connections &/or the cables may be bad, dirty or corroded.
 
  #3  
Old 05-12-18, 08:52 PM
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A common problem area is where the negative cable bolts to the frame.
 
  #4  
Old 05-12-18, 09:45 PM
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Not an answer...but I've never even heard of these units and now they've been mentioned twice in the last 2 days...odd.
 
  #5  
Old 05-13-18, 04:24 AM
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I bet it's a bad battery. How do you know it's fully charged? How old is the battery? The only way to know if a battery is good is to test it under a load which most auto parts stores will do for you.
 
  #6  
Old 05-13-18, 04:47 AM
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Agree with PD. Today's batteries are funny. They will work fine up until they become weak then not work at all. No warning, No slow starting.
 
  #7  
Old 05-13-18, 06:34 AM
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Can you jump it with your car battery? Iíll bet on the bad battery.
Geo
 
  #8  
Old 05-13-18, 07:48 AM
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The battery is easy enough to confirm; make sure it's charged, then take it to your nearest auto parts store and they should have a load tester. But don't skip checking all of the batter cable connections, including at the battery, at the solenoid, and at the frame as Cheese mentioned. 95% of the time or better it's going to be a battery that's not as good as one thinks it should be or a connection. I think you will find the problem here, but if not I would use a voltmeter to confirm that you are indeed getting juice to the starter when you turn the key. You said you checked the safety switches, so that's good, but you could have a sticky switch or a bent actuator for one of the switches so that the switch itself is working but not being fully depressed in actual application. But I'd still bet on something easy like the battery or battery connection.
 
  #9  
Old 05-13-18, 11:40 AM
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Thanks guys. What i can tell you is this, the connections are good and clean and tight.

The voltge readings are 12.77 at the terminals and positive end of the solenoid.

The negative does NOT connect to the frame which i thought was odd.

I put a jumpstart to the battery and was still unable to start it.

Iíll bring the battery in and have it tested under load.
 
  #10  
Old 05-13-18, 12:13 PM
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Where does the negative connect then? In some way, it's connected to the frame (or supposed to be).
 
  #11  
Old 05-13-18, 12:28 PM
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Negative on these, assuming a Kohler engine, connects to the engine. The engine is grounded via the mounting bolts to the frame but should not affect the starter.
Personally I know of no way to test the PTO switch. I would suspect that possibly.
Check to see if you have power to the fuel solenoid with the key in the run position. Also with the key in the run position, sit on the seat and try the PTO..can you hear the clutch engage?

These are pretty well built machines and we are selling two to three a week.

Bad Boy is out of Arkansas and does have a pretty good support site and manuals.

https://www.badboymowers.com/images/...ZTElite_15.pdf
 
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Old 05-13-18, 12:31 PM
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Also if you could post you serial number, it will tell what engines and options you have. It is located under the seat in the middle of your Hydrogear labels on the frame.
 
  #13  
Old 05-13-18, 12:38 PM
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Another thing, if it has headlights, turn them on and then check your battery voltage, also have you tried jumping across the starter solenoid terminals?
Geo
 
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Old 05-13-18, 12:39 PM
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  #15  
Old 05-13-18, 02:57 PM
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Thereís a wire from the negative that goes into a relay.

the battery was bad so hopefully that was the only issue and all is well.

Thanks for the input.
 
  #16  
Old 05-13-18, 06:41 PM
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Yeah, frame/block/whatever... it's the ground side of the system and all connected to the negative battery cable. Glad you got it figured out.
 
  #17  
Old 05-14-18, 08:02 AM
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Replacing the battery hasnít fixed it. Same symptoms. The serial number is BZE602KO07151164
 
  #18  
Old 05-14-18, 03:17 PM
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Hi, you havenít said if you tried to jump the solenoid.
Geo
 
  #19  
Old 05-14-18, 03:24 PM
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I'm Not sure how you tested all the switches you mentioned, one of which there is none for the blades.
On the starter solenoid you should have 3 connections, one from the battery to the top post, the other top post to the starter. The third one should be a small wire to a terminal. With a jumper wire connect the small terminal to the top post coming from the battery and see if the starter engages.
 
  #20  
Old 05-16-18, 01:43 PM
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Ok guys, hereís the latest.

I installed an incompatible ignition switch witch and was holding off on posting until the new one came in hoping it would fix it. It did not. I can jump the mower but it wonít stay on very long. Any idea what this indicates?
 
  #21  
Old 05-16-18, 02:26 PM
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Why are you replacing the ignition switch?
Geo
 
  #22  
Old 05-16-18, 03:06 PM
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I tested the ignition switch incorrectly and ended up breaking it so I replaced it.
 
  #23  
Old 05-16-18, 03:10 PM
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How are you jumping it ?
 
  #24  
Old 05-16-18, 03:17 PM
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There are two safety circuits. One prevents the starter from engaging, the other kills spark if the engine is running. The seat switch only involves the circuit that kills spark.

The PTO is not a safety switch but is tied into both circuits. If engaged it will not allow the starter to work, and if running and seat not occupied, it will kill spark. There is more to the switch than simply open/closed. They are specific to each mower and I replace quite a few. IOW I know of no way to test other than replace with known good one.
The safety switches are not that special and I rarely find bad ones. Across two terminals you should have open, the other two closed. When the button is pushed each should change state (open side should close and vice versa)
 
  #25  
Old 05-16-18, 03:18 PM
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I would imagine you have checked all the fuses, it also appears there are a bunch of relays in that machine, if so pull them out one at a time and reseat them, is there a wiring dia, with that machine?
Geo
 
  #26  
Old 05-16-18, 03:36 PM
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Iím jumping it by bridging the positive into the solenoid with the small wire coming out of the solenoid.

I donít know if this is an indication of something else but runs for shorter periods of time each time I jump it.

Iím going to go ahead and replace the switch for the blades and see if that does anything.
 
  #27  
Old 05-16-18, 03:52 PM
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If it runs for like half a second? Then the PTO is a good bet.
I did have a Bad Boy last week that would start and run until you released the key from Start to Run, I was able to wiggle the key, pull it to the side in the run position and get it to work. Key switch fixed that but you have different symptoms.
Since you can jump it like I explained previously, that indicates safety circuit or key or wiring.

I often see a slight delay in the PTO switch either engaging, or activating a safety circuit so I think that is a good chance the problem.

Please keep us up to date?

Good Luck!
 
  #28  
Old 05-16-18, 04:48 PM
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I'm going to take a long shot here based on BFHFixit's post about the PTO being an issue.

If indeed it is a PTO (switch) issue, its possible there is just enough slack in the PTO leaver/knob/switch that its laying heavy on the PTO (safety) switch. Try holding up (toward the disengage direction) & try to crank it.

You guys who are familiar with the old mid 60's Galaxy 500 with automatic transmission, that was an issue. The shifting lever would become slack & wouldn't stay all the way into the "park" position & would lay just heavy enough for the linkage to touch the safety switch & wouldn't allow the starter to work. Therefore, the driver would use his left hand across the steering wheel & hold the shift lever in the park position enough to get the linkage off the safety switch, while using his right hand to turn the key.
Sorry about getting off topic a bit but, you might give this a try. It may just do the trick.
 
  #29  
Old 05-16-18, 07:13 PM
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You can test the PTO switches by checking continuity across the sides of the switch or reading the voltages on the terminals. You find the leg with constant 12v, then the one next to it across the short length of the switch should have 12v with the switch pulled up, not with it pushed down. Find the one that gets hot when you turn the key, and the one across from it should have 12v when you turn the key with the PTO switch off, and no voltage at all when you turn the key with it on. Those are the main circuits in that switch and some switches will have other wires coming/going to and from it for other features but those are generally inconsequential when looking for a no start problem like yours. Often when these switches go bad, you can push/pull and twist the button a bit and get it to make contact temporarily, enough to indicate that it's the switch without even having to test it with a meter.
 
  #30  
Old 05-16-18, 07:22 PM
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cheese has had more time on his hands than parts But I would not doubt him. I simply grab a new switch off the shelf and try it
These parts are cheap plastic and cheaply made...time is money even though parts are not from that realm.
 
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Old 05-16-18, 07:26 PM
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cheese?
Does your test involve having the switch plugged in and testing the contact from the back?
 
  #32  
Old 05-16-18, 11:13 PM
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Yes, if I'm testing voltages. You can check it with an ohmmeter without it being plugged in.
I don't always have the part with me, and I like to troubleshoot rather than try things to see what works and doesn't. I run a service truck and a lot of my work is on the road, so tossing a switch on it usually isn't an option. I actually cut one of these switches open so that I could see how it worked and where the contacts were and better understand how to diagnose it.
 
  #33  
Old 05-17-18, 03:50 PM
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You da man cheese

I need to put some of that fun stuff on my list for the winter months, hunkered around the barrel stove
 
  #34  
Old 05-18-18, 07:59 AM
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The PTO switch was definitely the problem but replacing it hasnít fixed it.

The switch short circuited and a wire burned through the housing. Iím assuming that this is causing issues down the line. Any ideas how to trace this?
 
  #35  
Old 05-18-18, 08:27 AM
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First, insure that the new switch is good if possible (someone covered this above). If not, try another switch. If so, follow the wire to the next component & see if you have electricity to that point. That's where I would begin.

You may need someone to assist you with this because the safety switch will obviously have to be activated while someone crank & someone checks voltage... maybe 3 people on that..
 
  #36  
Old 05-18-18, 10:51 AM
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Page 21 of this manual https://www.badboymowers.com/images/...ZTElite_15.pdf has a wiring diagram.
 
  #37  
Old 05-18-18, 02:55 PM
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Usually when the switch is burnt up and melted, the PTO clutch is bad and over-amping the switch You should check the resistance of the PTO clutch. If it's under 3 ohms, it's shorted out and will burn up your new switch eventually once you get it repaired.
 
  #38  
Old 05-20-18, 02:30 PM
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Finally got some time to work on the mower and hereís the latest.

I tested tge the voltage and there is NO voltage regardless of where the key is turned from any wire on the PTO switch.

I have 2 starter selonoids that test as opterational. With one starter in, nothing happens. With the other starter in itíll turn over but not start.

Besides the charred end end of the PTO switch the fuse off the selonoid was charred on one end but not popped. I changed it anyway.
 
  #39  
Old 05-20-18, 02:33 PM
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BHFixit, I have that but itís so blurry I canít tell whatís what. I tried finding a better one online and emailed the company with no success.
 
  #40  
Old 05-20-18, 02:36 PM
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Is there voltage on one terminal to ground of the ignition switch?
 
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