Oil filter spec

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Old 04-02-20, 05:13 PM
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Oil filter spec

I have a brand new Cub Cadet mower that is due an oil change. I got the required filter and then noticed I had two filters on the shelf that fit my old mower. I looked up the specs on both and the only difference is the pressure relief, the factory version is 8-11 psi, the one on the shelf is 12-15 psi.
What does this mean to the engine? Do I need to stick with the factory version? Is the extra psi a no-go?
The ones I have are automotive filters, not just for small engines, if that matters.
Thanks.
 
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Old 04-03-20, 04:17 AM
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It could. The psi relief valve is used or activated when the filter gets clogged or the oil gets too thick to properly flow through the filter. If the engine can't activate the psi valve if and when the filter is clogged then the engine could starve for oil lubrication. Don't know if the engine is designed to activate the auto filters at 12 to 15 psi. That's significantly higher than the 8 to 11 psi.
 
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Old 04-03-20, 05:01 AM
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You would have to run that filter for years to get so clogged up that relief valve would come into play.
 
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Old 04-03-20, 05:28 AM
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If you want to take the chance of $10 filter vs $2000 mower.
What model do you have and how often do you use it?
If you use the mower for a lawn mower service, cutting grass for customers, then you better heed the recommended service intervals and the filter specs. But if you're just a once a week home owner cutting grass for you small yard, then I agree the chances are unlikely that your oil will foul to the point of the psi valve being activated. However, if you want to keep the warranty active and just want to maintain your equipment, then a $10 filter with every oil change is cheap insurance.
 
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Old 04-03-20, 11:17 AM
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I would use it without worry. If you have enough contaminates in your oil to clog a pleated automotive filter, your engine is probably toast anyway. That much contamination in 1.5 to 2 quarts of oil isn't going to happen without something catastrophic precluding it. I use purolator filters regularly.
 
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Old 04-03-20, 05:13 PM
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I talk to the mechanic where I bought the mower, he said the same thing about the pressure valve every being an issue. He said he always recommends an automotive filter when asked.
Thanks for the help guys.
 
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Old 04-03-20, 06:07 PM
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Then why would the manufacture design a filter at extra expense rather than use an off the shelf filter already designed, tested and easily available, and most likely cheaper for production? And don't tell me it's a way of gaining extra market in repair and maintenance by making a different filter. They could easily design it so nothing but their private label automotive filter would fit.

The mechanic where you bought the mower may be very knowledgeable, but he is not the engineer who designed the engine. Nor did he do the testing of the engine at the factory. Nor does he represent or enforce the warranty.

I agree completely that using an automotive filter will do nor harm if the mower is used as home owners mower. Not for commercial use. But understand if the mower is under warranty, you will void it!

And an engineering aid (an almost engineer if you will) I learned the hard way to never second guess an engineers design or specification.

Let me relate a story. Many years ago when I was young, I was purchasing steel as specified by engineering for a machine (I don't remember the details, but that's not important). The spec read 304SS. My vendor was unable to get it at the price and delivery I needed. He offered 316SS instead. Not only was it cheaper and readily available it was BETTER! _________________NOT!
I was ripped a new one by engineering. I was told 304 was spec'd because of it's properties. Those properties were DIFFERENT than 316 and needed as such. No steel is better than another, only different! In this particular case they allowed the 316 ss because the difference was not that great and it would suffice. But I learned a big lesson that day.

If it was my brand new or year old mower, I would not skimp on a $10 filter. Maybe later, but not when it's new.
 
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Old 04-03-20, 07:53 PM
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That's nice, but the real simple matter is that Kohler does not make filters, they buy them with their name stamped on them. The fine and knowledgeable engineers at Kohler know that 8-11 psi is more than enough so why spec a stronger spring in a filter? Every company has to have cost outs. The automotive filter has more filter media in it which gives more filtering area which in turn will make the pressure difference even more of a moot point, given the same quality of oil.
As I learned long before I earned my bachelors degree in mechanical engineering (with a concentration in mechatronics), there is a reason that everything is done, some makes sense, others make profits, a few make both.
And yes, the mechanic I spoke with is co-owner of the business with his brother and handles any and all warranty work that comes in the door. They have a stellar reputation for customer service, that is why I bought from them. If and when I have the need for warranty work performed due to using a filter that has more filtering capabilities, I have no doubt that I will get it. That is what the man told me and I trust his word.
By the way, any steel needed for a particular task is way better than all the rest. The difference is what makes it better. 12L14 is far superior, but way cheaper, for making a cheap turned part to say A-2 tool steel that would require heat treating, grinding, etc. That is why your 304 was better for the given task over the 316, not just different. The real engineers understand that.
 
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Old 04-04-20, 04:22 AM
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What does this mean to the engine? Do I need to stick with the factory version? Is the extra psi a no-go?
The ones I have are automotive filters, not just for small engines, if that matters.
Thanks.
Then why did you ask the question? You already knew you were going to us the auto filter. You already had confirmation from your dealer that it was OK.

I'm not arguing the use of the auto filter. I already said in several responses that it won't do any harm. You asked a question that seemed to want an explanation as to why the difference in pressure. I tried to answer that question.

Of course Kohlar does not make the filter. They actually make very little of the parts vs assemble the engine. BUT, they do design and spec all the parts. Third party vendors make it accordingly. And every item should be designed to meet and just barely exceed operating conditions. To over design (excluding safety factors if warranted) is money wasted. (except for NASA and bridge design)

Technically speaking as far as warranty goes your dealer may back it up if by the remote chance the filter was the cause of failure, but not the factory! You have a good dealer and I would stick with him. I have a similar dealer whom I bought my CC snow blower and my son'e CC zero turn mower. Could've bought the same units at a big box store at a slightly lesser cost, but it's worth the extra for the dealer experience and know how.

Oneshotman, I hope I didn't come on as being augmentative. Don't mean to be. I enjoy these types of conversations and under the current circumstances not a lot of other things to do. We are both on the same page and agree on the same points.

The only thing I dis-agree with is the 1st oil change, use the factory spec filter, especially since you already have it. There could be a possible unit failure not related to the filter and you would want to be up to par with the manufacture so as not give them any excuse as to why they can't or won't honor the warranty. Error on the side of caution. It not costing you anything at this point in time.

Good luck and let us know how you like the Cub Cadet mower. BTW... which model did you get?

 
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Old 04-04-20, 11:08 AM
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If you use an oil filter that crosses to the same number, the manufacturer can not deny warranty. There are consumer protection laws against it. Commercial or residential, it doesn't matter. The kohler filter is the same as another brand oil filter that can be bought off the shelf. They didn't specifically design the oil filter, they are the same with a different paint job. Same as the kohler hydraulic lifters. They weren't designed by Kohler... they are Chevrolet lifters. You can go to the auto parts store and buy lifters for a 1975 chevy monte carlo 305 and put them straight in your kohler.
 
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Old 04-04-20, 12:17 PM
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Your point being? As long as the specs are the same that's fine. But in this case the specs are NOT the same (different psi rating). Does it make a difference? NO! The filter will most likely work just fine. Kohler did not design the filter, they spec'd or engineered the filter for the intended use. They in turn sent this out to various filter manufacturers for bid. A manufacturer may happen to have a stock unit that falls into the psi range and submits it. Maybe that stock filter covers other ranges, maybe not, or might need a small tweek in manufacturing to meet the spec. Who knows? Who cares? I've used many different brands of filters, and they all meet the engine specifications.

But here's my point! IF (a great big IF), A $1500 to $2000 machine goes bad for what ever reason (in terms of engine), I doubt very much if the manufacturer or the dealer will take it on the chin because a consumer decided that a filter with different specs, regardless of it working or not, decided it was better than what the designers designed and engineered into it. Manufacturers and dealers are not in the habit of giving money away because consumers think they know better. In this case if the OP could prove the dealer said it was OK, then the warranty would fall on the dealer, not the manufacture. And my other point being, is the OP has the correct filter, why not use, at least for the very first oil change. What harm can it cause? And maybe, just maybe, if a problem arises, he can say he followed the specs to a T. As long as the filter specs are the same, regardless of the brand, that's what counts.

You want to take a Ford engine and put it into a Chevy and match the tranny, fine, it can be done and it will work. BUT don't expect Ford or Chevy to warrant the machine.

Ever hear the song One Piece at Time by Johnny Cash? Always got hoot out of that song. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...09275e262c24c0 Reminds me of a relative who worked at the steel mill. Always taking things to use on his own. His stuff never did look quite right. But they did work.

Stay safe!
 
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Old 04-04-20, 05:28 PM
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Sometimes I think questions aren't worth the answers.
I asked the question here on Thursday, I talked to the mechanic on Friday, I read everyone's response Friday night, after I had already changed the oil, with the factory spec filter that I had recently bought. But rest assured I will be using the other automotive filters from now on because they give more filtering area vs the factory engineer approved version. Any automotive filter that is good for 5000 miles it going to do a good enough job in a lawn mower that gets its oil changed every 50 hours. If in that 50 hours that bypass valve comes into play, I've got worse problems than the filter.
Thanks to everyone for their input and knowledgeable answers.
 
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Old 04-04-20, 06:55 PM
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I have a 54" CC with Kohler 24 hp 7000.. I did the same as you tried to research another filter.. Yes , no specs match on any replacements that I could find.

In turn I said %$#& that. For what I paid for the machine and that I have a 3 yr bumper to bumper warranty it gets the recommended OEM filter.

Just me though. Y'all do what you think is right for you.

I side with Norm .

Anyway 11.99 once a year.. big deal.. I mow an acre.. no way I get 100 hours on that thing during the mowing season..

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...d-12-050-01-s1
 
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Old 04-04-20, 11:06 PM
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Somehow using an aftermarket filter with a slightly different bypass pressure equates to taking a ford engine and putting it in a chevy and asking for warranty? LOL. Dramatic maybe just a bit? This whole thing is a non issue. Negligible difference in a feature that will never come into play anyway. What brand oil you use probably makes more difference than this.
 
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Old 04-05-20, 04:41 AM
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What brand oil you use probably makes more difference than this.
Uh oh. Here we go again. Just kidding.
 
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Old 04-05-20, 08:25 AM
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Yeah well thats the other thing... after first oil change I went synthetic.. probably wrong to do on small engines...
 
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Old 04-05-20, 12:52 PM
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It's okay to do Mike, synthetic withstands the higher temps of an air cooled engine better than conventional oil with viscosity index improvers, so do it with confidence.
 
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