2 Cycle Engine Question

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  #41  
Old 12-18-02, 04:46 PM
Fisher
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Why did the title on this thread change?
 
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  #42  
Old 12-19-02, 03:40 AM
Joe_F
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I have no idea Fish
 
  #43  
Old 12-19-02, 08:15 PM
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I didn't do it, lol I don't know, but I'd guess either Tom or the administrator did.
 
  #44  
Old 12-19-02, 09:44 PM
mikejmerritt
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Thought I Would Add......

......It wasn't me.......Mike
 
  #45  
Old 12-21-02, 02:36 PM
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Topic Edited

Hello mods & members.

The question was asked why this topics title was edited.
The fact of the matter is the topic has been edited twice. Both times by me and for the very same reason.

The new title denotes a request for information regarding a 2 cycle engine and not info from specific individuals or persons.

The reasoning is simple and will be clearly explained here. The original title was specifically worded and targeted to specific moderators.

My own first edit of the title was not exactly correct either. Therefore, the title has once again been edited.
Hopefully this will be the last time....

As the title was originally worded, the indications appeared to be but not the intent, that all other persons not specifically named where not welcomed and need not post replies.

Although it was not the direct intention of the original posting parties intent, it appeared to some members to be specifically targeted to specific moderators to post replies only.

Therefore, the editing to a new title name was required.

Titling any thread to any specific person or persons must be avoided. As the title of this posting was originally worded, it implied a request from some, while excluding others.

We must keep in mind this is a public forum, as are all of the forums and topics on the web site. As such, they are open to everyone who wants to post helpful infomation, etc.

Avoid targeting questions to specific persons or individuals in the public forums. All posted questions must be worded to indicate the nature of the problem only.

Edited Section Note:
If you want information from any specific mod or member, use the Personal Message {PM} or E-mail choices only.

As a reminded to everyone, all postings on the web site are subject to editing or deletion, with or without notice.

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Last edited by Sharp Advice; 12-21-02 at 03:02 PM.
  #46  
Old 01-09-03, 07:57 PM
Joe_F
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Question

Ok guys .

Mike: I installed the coil you sent me (thank you!!), but still no spark. What you sent appears to be the exact same unit as I removed, number for number.

A couple of things:

1) If I hook up a meter to the kill switch wires, it shows continuity.
2) The kill switch shows continuity when pressed to "off" (makes sense.

My questions:

1) How do you actually check the coil to see if it's good? In or out of the machine?

2) I noticed one of the mounting slot holes on the coil is slotted (of course, lol). Is there an adjustment/spec for the distance between the coil and the flywheel? Could this be my no spark problem? I gather the rotation of the flywheel and the magnetism of the same versus the coil create the spark. Maybe the distance is too great?

3) Are my findings with the meter correct?

My guess is that you would insert a feeler gauge to measure the gap between the flywheel and coil--if I'm guessing right.

I don't see how I could try Fish's idea of pulling off the kill wire to the coil. Actually to get to the coil, you have to dismantle half of the &*&%^%^&%%(*)(*() unit. LOL

I know I'm close guys, but I need your expertise here .

Thanks and I welcome your opinions and smarts .
 
  #47  
Old 01-09-03, 08:37 PM
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Did you check for spark with the kill wire removed from the switch? The switch should show continuity when turned off, but should be an open circuit when turned on. The air-gap between the flywheel magnet and the armature legs needs to be set. I don't have the specs for the air gap, but I would guess at .010". To set it, turn the flywheel until the magnet is lined up with the coil, then, using a brass (non-magnetic) feeler gague, set the coil against the flywheel and tighten the screws. Maybe someone has the air-gap specs, I don't have the first McCulloch manual.
 
  #48  
Old 01-09-03, 08:37 PM
mikejmerritt
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Hey Joe, if I have it right you have continuity at the switch wires in the run position as well as when pressed to "off". There should be no continuity in the run positon because continuity would short the ignition.

1) How do you actually check the coil to see if it's good? In or out of the machine?

Check continuity in or out of the machine with an ohm meter between the spark plug terminal and the ground wire terminal on the coil with the ground wire removed. You must have continuity.

2) I noticed one of the mounting slot holes on the coil is slotted (of course, lol). Is there an adjustment/spec for the distance between the coil and the flywheel? Could this be my no spark problem? I gather the rotation of the flywheel and the magnetism of the same versus the coil create the spark. Maybe the distance is too great?

Coil spacing is .013-.015. Due to the slight curve in the coil a business card is perfect. The slot plays no part. Unless you have the coil ..030 out it should not be the problem.

3) Are my findings with the meter correct?

See first paragraph.

If you remove the ground wire from the coil as Fish suggests, have the coil gap correct and the plug is good (it is good isn't it?) it WILL fire.

I saw this coil fire before I pulled it off.

You have a shorted kill wire/switch.

Let us know........

Mike
 
  #49  
Old 01-10-03, 12:29 AM
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I read way back at the beginning of this thread to freshen up on what has been done. I noticed in a post I made that I was unclear about what and where continuity should be. I hope that you didn't misunderstand about having continuity to ground with the kill wire off. I meant the kill wire off the switch, not the coil. (at the time, you were discussing the readings on the wires at the switch, as you hadn't gotten into the machine far enough to access the coil yet). You shouldn't have continuity to ground with the kill wire disconnected from the coil. (with the switch turned on). I hope I didn't mislead you. Sorry if I did.
 
  #50  
Old 01-10-03, 05:30 AM
Joe_F
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Folks:

I will try all that is suggested and report back.

Mike/Cheese: I should clarify. The kill switch is normally open and then you close it to shut off the machine. The switch is open in the normal position and shows continuity when you click it (shut off the engine.

If you take the switch out of the picture, and just hook a meter to the wire terminals on the machine that go to the coil, it shows continuity. Is this correct? Maybe that will tell me where I've got some trouble?

I will also check each individual wire from lead end to lead end for continuity too.

I've also removed the kill switch completely and taped the terminals together temporarily to see if the kill switch was bad. No dice. I can't get spark out of this thing to save salt. I know there is no spark, because I'm doing this at night when it's dark .

If I remove both kill wires from the coil and then try to turn it over, will this confirm a kill switch/wire problem? If so, how would you turn the motor off when done testing without a kill switch?

Thanks for all the support, as always.

Regards,
 
  #51  
Old 01-10-03, 05:28 PM
mikejmerritt
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"If you take the switch out of the picture, and just hook a meter to the wire terminals on the machine that go to the coil, it shows continuity. Is this correct? Maybe that will tell me where I've got some trouble?"

Assuming all is well after removing the switch you would have continuity in a test of the two wires.

"I've also removed the kill switch completely and taped the terminals together temporarily to see if the kill switch was bad. No dice. I can't get spark out of this thing to save salt. I know there is no spark, because I'm doing this at night when it's dark."

If you tape the wires together you have closed the loop and should have no fire. Pull the wires apart and it should fire.

"If I remove both kill wires from the coil and then try to turn it over, will this confirm a kill switch/wire problem? If so, how would you turn the motor off when done testing without a kill switch?"

YES!!!!!.....One wire goes to the hot terminal on the coil and one to ground. All one need do is pull the wire off of the coil. What I do is put a wire tie around the plug boot and pull it off to kill or in this case you might feel better if you CHOKE it to death...LOL....Mike
 
  #52  
Old 01-10-03, 07:23 PM
Joe_F
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Mike:

Checking with the switch out of the picture, there was continuity there.

I noticed a crappy connection on one of the kill wires. I'm going to make up new leads for these wires and see where that nets me.

The old coil tested fine, as does the one you sent.

I could try to remove all the dang wires from the thing and then try to fire it up. . If it runs, I may use the choke to conk it out when I need to.

Dang kill switch is always a PITA. LOL. What do you think?

Thanks.
 
  #53  
Old 01-16-03, 09:17 PM
Joe_F
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Arrow

Update: I had a friend at work make up new kill switch wires and I put it back together again.

It's a PITA to work with as all the screws are this weird flathead type screw and various threads pitches, lengths and such are use and they all look identical (but are not).

Anyhow, the machine did fire and run, but I hear clanking, and I believe the air gap is too narrow on the wheel/coil spacing and has to be adjusted. Mike, I did your trick with a business card, by rotating the flywheel and then inserting the card when the magnet in the flywheel met the coil magnet. I rotated it by hand to check it, and it seemed too close, but I went with what ya guys had just in case .

How critical is this dimension? Maybe I have cheap business cards(lol), this distance seems way too narrow. I might put a bit more space there. It is also a major PITA to install the pull housing onto the motor. You need about 8 hands to keep the pull housing flush with the motor mounting holes for those blasted silly screws. The pull start feels a little rough, and I want to take it all back apart and go through it with a fine tooth comb and get it not to clank and to be 100%.

In all honesty, this is a learning exercise. This is a piss poor machine and no wonder this company is in shambles. It's poorly screwed together and looks like a lackluster machine. But, I will learn and get this thing running right. It will not get the best of me.

Mike: I might save your coil for the future and use my original. It seems to have been "worn in" a bit better as far as mounting goes.

Thanks guys. We are getting snow now, so I hope to putz with it over the long weekend and get it back together in one piece sans clanking and other assembly issues.

Let me know if you would on the air gap thing.

Thanks and best regards,
 
  #54  
Old 01-16-03, 11:47 PM
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Joe...glad it's running. Did you set the air gap with the magnets on the flywheel turned toward the coil? Sometimes those little flywheels are a bit out of round, and usually the magnet side is the side that sticks out the farthest.

I know that thing is a pain to work on, but many 2-strokers by most any name are a pain to do also. So much stuff packed into one small, light machine.
 
  #55  
Old 01-17-03, 03:55 AM
mikejmerritt
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The coil gap is .013- .015 and is set as cheese describes above. Spin the flywheel slowly while watching for any spot that may be rubbing the coil. I find the Macs and Homelites easy to work on. Wait until you have to put a recoil spring/rope in a full sized Poulan blower, now thats a pain......Mike
 
  #56  
Old 01-17-03, 05:54 AM
Joe_F
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I stuck the business card in between the flywheel magnet and the coil magnet. As I said, when I rotated it, it seemed to slightly clash a bit. Can I enlarge the gap a little? Maybe a bit above a business card???

I'll try it again tonight and go through it in more depth. At least it fires and runs now. I still think it's poorly put together .
 
  #57  
Old 01-17-03, 03:18 PM
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Hello Joe, I've been following your post off and on as it has progressed and now I feel as though I should put my 2 cents worth in. I too was given a 2 cycle such as your working on and I too had quite a go-round with it. Does this one have the coil with the built in cdi ignition? THe one I wrestled with was a Stihl, and it was a weed trimmer. On this one I replaced the coil and it did help out the spark , but, after I acheived that and got it running quite well, the darn thing then actually cut a notch into the crankshaft. I guess because it had such good spark. And no, it didn't shear the key, or damage the aluminum flywheel, believe it or not. Where I work in a machine shop I made one more valiant attempt to repair it. I took the crank out and recut the keyway to the next size bigger, and hand filed out the aluminum flywheel because it was a tapered shaft. But when I put it back together I think the timing was off slightly ( there is no adjustment) and it never did fire again. The point I want to make is that on one of the times I had it apart, when I put the flywheel on, where the key was so small I actually got it off the keyway and it caused the flywheel to rub on the coil as it turned over. I was thinking this may be what is happening here??? I know these things are a PITA and I guess not worth the effort in some cases, but, it bothers me, as it does you I guess, that the darn things won't run. I just gotta know why. MAybe thats what makes us DYI's.......I may take that stupid trimmer and try slotting out the holes in the coil someday and attempt to set the timing just to see if I can make it run again. Good Luck.
 
  #58  
Old 01-20-03, 06:19 AM
Joe_F
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Yes, the clash is the issue. I haven't been able to get to it.

I have been working with my neighbor to fix our heat and home and his girlfriend's mother's house. Both houses needed Bell and Gossett Circulator pumps (Home Depot stocks these things ), and I have to get a new Aquastat relay as well.

My neighbor and I are becoming HVAC and "Jack of All Trades" guys overnight. LOL. We sweated pipe, got all our own stuff and did a lot of homework into what we were doing. My other friend also pitched in and it's always a few laughs when we do something. .

I'll get to it as soon as I can and report back. I know I'm close and it's the flywheel to coil gap spacing I've got to get right. It's too close. I'll reset and listen very carefully for any scraping. I also will reassemble it carefully as alignment of parts here is very critical. It is just a poorly made machine with all those goofy flathead screws. LOL.

I'll report back. I'd appreciate any input from Mike or Cheese (or anyone) on how critical that air gap is. I may have to compensate for the flywheel being out of round (perhaps) as Cheese mentions too.
 
  #59  
Old 01-20-03, 04:59 PM
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Changing the air-gap affects timing, somewhat like turning the distributor in a car. You can't really improve anything that way, like sometimes can be done on a vehicle, but if you need the clearance, then do it. Is the flywheel out of round, or does it look like the whole shaft wobbles like a bent crank? The farther you move the coil from the flywheel, the weaker the signal to the coil will be and if you move it too far, you might lose spark. Try and see is all I can say.

The funny screws you mentioned...you must be talking about the ones that accept either a torx bit or a flathead screwdriver. A cordless drill with a t-25 bit on a shaft works nicely for this kind of work. (I believe it's t-25).
 
  #60  
Old 01-21-03, 03:22 AM
Joe_F
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Thanks Cheee, I'll try that. It's going to be bitter cold all week here in NYC.....the high is going to be 25 today and it's going to get down into the single digits overnight. BRRRRRRR.

My neighbor and I have been fixing heat all weekend both here and at his girlfriend's house. It's been an HVAC kinda weekend .
 
  #61  
Old 01-24-03, 08:06 AM
Joe_F
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I'll get back into again this weekend, now that the heat in my house is completely fixed (another one of my DIY projects done ).

I did put it all back together and set the gap (at least as best as I could). I even took both kill switch coil wires off to see if it would fire without any kill switch. I have no spark .

This thing is annoying but will not get the best of me. LOL. I'm going to ask a coworker to lend me his brass feeler gauges if I need to be more accurate.

We'll get it folks .

Thanks for the help,
 
  #62  
Old 01-26-03, 07:48 AM
Joe_F
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I've got it back together and seemingly no fire or run .

I'm pretty sure the air gap is OK and I was wondering if I could try a J19LM plug to see if I have a bad plug or not. I'm pretty sure that is NOT it, as it ran the other night (clanking though). It may have been the recoil starter that was doing it. As I mentioned, it's tough to get the recoil housing lined up with the engine. I'm wondering now if the kill wires have been pinched.

Please folks, one more time :

1) If I pull out the kill switch and hook a meter to the kill wire terminals (One goes to the mounting leg of the coil, the other to a flag terminal on the coil), should it show continuity or not?

2) (I know that the switch itself is open normally and will show continuity when it's pushed to "OFF" [engine off]). That appears to work OK.

3) I would gather that I cannot permanently use the choke to cut the motor off? If I can, I might remove the kill switch & wires as it seems very troublesome (against my better judgement...I'm pretty anal about things being 100% OEM and right). Why can't the choke be used to conk it out permanently and all the time?

4) Any other ideas are greatly appreciated.

This project has been shelved a bit now that I have the "Green Machine" snowblower to putz with (see my other post on that).
 
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