no more oil based paint?


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Old 10-17-02, 03:58 PM
dbutler1946
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no more oil based paint?

I plan to do some interior painting shortly and the paint person at Lowe's informed me that oil based painted is being discontinued in favor of acrylic. She says this is true everywhere, not just at Lowe's. Is it true that oil based paint is on the way out?
 
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Old 10-18-02, 04:37 AM
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dbutler1946,

It sort of depends what state you are located in. Some states are in the process of eliminating VOCs. (Volatile Organic Compounds). This covers a very wide range of pollutants, not just paint.

“State-based environmental programs have made a unique contribution to pollution prevention through their direct contact with industry and awareness of local needs. Whether they target specific industries for outreach and technical assistance or seek to transform the bureaucracy to accept the pollution prevention ethic, states continue to lead the pollution prevention movement.” per:
http://www.epa.state.oh.us/opp/p2regint/othrstat.html

fred
 
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Old 10-18-02, 06:13 AM
TomBT
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On the other hand, they've been saying that for at least ten years now and oil paints are still around....
 
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Old 10-18-02, 06:44 AM
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Hi Tom,

Yeah, but we're in VA.

Move to CA and see what happens. Oh, if you have a gas leaf blower, sell it first. In some cities they are illegal.

take care,
fred
 
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Old 10-18-02, 07:18 AM
dbutler1946
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acrylic vs. oil base

How about acrylic paint? Does it do as good a job as is claimed? I have used a bit of latex paint in the (distant) past for trim and frankly, I hated the stuff and vowed to never use it again (which I haven't). I have been remodeling our house for about 10 months now and have quite a bit of painting to do - maybe about 3 gallons worth on trim and other woodwork. It would certainly be a shame to make a mistake with the type of paint now.
 
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Old 10-18-02, 07:24 AM
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dbutler1946,

You may have heard an 'editorial' by your Lowes rep.
You should be able to find oil paint in Oh. Try a good paint store (SW for example) for better advice and better paint.
fred
 
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Old 10-18-02, 07:57 AM
TomBT
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Back when I was painting we only used oil paint for interior trim and for exterior work. I still believe it to be the better product but I think latex paints have come a long way over the years. Oil paints are a pain to clean up after and they can be tricky to apply. I now only use top quality latex paints for just about everything because the benefits gained from oil paints don't outweigh the costs.....oh, and I forgot about the "California factor" but I suspect this is not a political forum...
 
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Old 10-19-02, 09:56 AM
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Oil based paint

Today's trend in paints is in the direction of latex paints because of easy clean up, low odors, and quick drying. Several companies have discontinued their oil-based products. The danger of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) has resulted in government regulations and consumer demand forcing continuing changes in paint formulations. Thus, we find paints that contain more paint solids and less solvent. Latex paints do not contain solvents and emit fewer VOCs. Because latex paints are water based, water can be used for clean up.


Oil paint uses a binder or resin that is derived from a vegetable oil such as linseed or soya bean that is usually dissolved in a solvent such as mineral spirits.

You should be able to find alkyd paint, the most common kind of oil paint. Alkyd paint contains a synthetic binder or resin, usually a vegetable oil. Look for the word "alkyd" on the can.
 
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Old 10-19-02, 11:45 AM
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bad experience w/latex?

If you have had a bad experience with latex, I believe it because you used the cheap stuff. I submit your shopping for paint at Lowes as proof.

Latex paints get better every year. I used latex on our old house and was very satisfied with it. But, I use quality paints. With paints, you truly get what you pay for.
 
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Old 10-20-02, 10:33 AM
dbutler1946
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Judging the quality of paint

I have used strictly oil based paint from Glidden and Sherwin Williams since my latex debacle and have been quite satisfied. However, the paint for this job is a very specfic color and my wife wanted an exact match to the paint chip she had. The Sherwin Williams in our area can only match color by the eyeball method - not very accurate - while Lowe's has some type of color matching machine which IS accurate. Hence, the dilemma. The solution, in addition to the fine advice I received from the helpful people on this forum, was to check Consumer Reports. Its top rated paint in all three categories, flat, low-luster, and semigloss, was Valspar American Tradition (July, '02, pg. 36), available at Lowe's. So, while I prefer an oil based paint, I'm going to give this new acrylic latex a try. Thanks to all for the help.
 
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Old 10-21-02, 07:26 AM
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dbutler1946, you may be well past this with all of your research but if you move to latex trim enamel you will need to prime if going over oil paint. Two ways to do this are with latex bonding primers like Zinsser 123 (since your shopping Lowes) or interior oil primer. Latex trim enamels will bond to both of these products.

I hope the Valspar works well for you. I have used this material a few times and have serious doubts about the way CR comes up with their results. Maybe I need a new guide on where to get consumer info.

The color matcing eyes at paints stores are only for general getting close. Final match is always done manually if the store has someone who is able. Some lighter colors are correct after a scan but most need work. The three stores in my area that have great paint matchers never turn the scanner on.....Mike
 
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Old 10-28-02, 10:07 AM
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Hmmmm...I hate these water based substitutes!! There must be a completley different technique to lets say painting a flush door and producing a high shine with these acrylic paints...Ive been told that oil based paints in the UK will start to be fazed out too and im not looking forward to that day...Ive tried water based gloss a couple of times and I found the whole experiance a nightmare and a waste of money...(except for undercoats like Dulux weather shield and acrylic primers etc)
The guy in our trade shop says we will all have to be retrained!!I wonder who will finance that??

By the way Mike.. Were able now to get Zinsser 123 here now...I tried it to prime out some varnished t & g before painting..I noticed that an hour later I was able to scratch off the primer with my finger nail!!!...Its quick drying I know..but does it take longer to completley cure????
I also noticed that it doesnt make the best stain blocker either....
Was it just a bad batch??
 
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Old 10-29-02, 09:08 AM
mikejmerritt
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Hey toptosher, I have no idea if we are on the same page when we refer to sheen levels with you across the pond and to make matters worse for us Sherwin-Williams has revamped their colors and sheens. If one wants a high gloss (what I call a wet look when dry) you order high gloss. Make sense but if one wants a semi gloss you now order gloss. Go figure on that one. On their exterior sheens if you want satin finish you order semi gloss because they say the SG is really satin.....UGH.....I suspect other companies will follow this confusing pattern. All of these materials I mention are latex products. The most pronounced difference In the way latex enamels appear when dry is they tend to leave brush marks because they don't self level like a good oil will. This is dealt with by people in the states going to trim enamel with less sheen and talking ourselves into liking it. Floetrol http://www.thisplace.com.au/building/mt_floetrol.htm is used to help the lack of leveling ability.
On the latex bonding primers like Zinsser 123 full bond is not there until a week has passed but it will cure behind finish coats. In some cases deglossing or light sanding is needed on varnish and other difficult surfaces. All of the latex primers claim to be primer sealers but that just isn't true. They are fazing out the oil paints but I have to wonder how they intend to deal with stains, saps, fire and water damage because the water based stuff will not touch these problems......Mike
 
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Old 10-29-02, 01:14 PM
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Is BIN being phased out, too?

Hey, Mike. Is BIN going to be nonger available when the oil-based primers are gone? BIN works well with those hard to touch problems.
 
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Old 10-29-02, 06:44 PM
mikejmerritt
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Hey BobF, I fully agree on the BIN. If that won't hold the problem back you better tear it out and replace. Parks Primer Sealer is the same thing and both are alcohol (shellac) based. I have had your question in my mind for some time now and the answer I get from the few paint insiders I know is until some kind of enviroment friendly true stain killer is developed the ones we have will continue to be sold. This line of thought also goes to what are we supposed to prime raw wood on the outside with if they do phase out our alkyd based primers and paints? Its true enough most kiln dried fir, spruce and even most pine will prime out and not bleed inside or out there are many projects made from materials that have bleeding potential.
On this stain killing primer subject maybe we have to wait and see because when the talk of a latex bonding primer that with little if any prep would bond to anything including glass first came around I never thought they could work but they do. Also, there is now waterborne enamel that bonds to anything, works like latex enamel (for what thats worth) and cleans up with water. Never thought I would see the day......Mike
 
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Old 10-31-02, 10:57 AM
rc101
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You mentioned Floetrol as a paint additive used to help interior latex level like an oil. The Flood company also makes Emulsa Bond...another latex paint additive. EB is an emulsified oil that can be added to exterior latex that acts as a primer.

Maybe these "additives" are what we'll be seeing more of?

rc
 
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Old 11-14-02, 07:57 AM
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OK..Another question...When its time to redecorate over these water based gloss/semi gloss finishes,can we sand as normal before undercoating or will this make the finish scratch or peel??
Should I apply an acrylic undercoat primer before I even think about sanding??
Also I noticed that after finishing a flush door with high gloss(Dulux) I found a hair on the top right corner...I flicked the hair away with the corner of my brush and atempted to lay off the section again...I wish I hadn`t as it dragged the finish away and left an unsightly mess!! What should I have done??
 
 

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