Interior painting opinon


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Old 08-17-04, 08:35 PM
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Interior painting opinon

I need some pros opinion. I am getting ready to paint my livingroom. I am going to colors, Yahhh... Took me years to convince my husband that he might like it. But anyway, we have always painted our home with a semi-gloss paint. Mainly because we have a kids and animals, and it is "scrubbable" (well somewhat). I have gone into different homes that have color added to the walls but they are always in a eggshell or satin. What type of paint do you recommend for a houseful of kids and animals(they dont live in the home just come in once in awhile)? I just need to be able to clean it properly with out having to pull out the extra can of paint for the times that I wash the paint off. Also, if I use an eggshell or satin paint, would it look funky if I painted the trim and doors with a semi-gloss?

Thank you ohh so much for this web-site...
 
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Old 08-17-04, 09:13 PM
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Go with BEHR paint from the Depot. Very good paint. They even have a scrub flat that is great. Most people do put semi-gloss on the trim and doors and eggshell on the walls. eggshell looks flat looking at it straight on and at an angle there if a-well- eggshell sheen, duh. Obviously semi gloss is more scrubbable but hardly worth it appearance wise. In my opinion semigloss belongs on trim. I don't even like it on kitchen cabinets, or in bathrooms.You might want to pick out your color from Ben Moore then have the depot make it. although they have great colors too.
 
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Old 08-17-04, 09:20 PM
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Go For It

Eggshell or satin walls with semi-gloss doors and trim looks awesome
With a quality paint you won't have a clean-up problem (and there are special paints for this, but I don't think you'll need them)
Go to a local paint or hardware store (not a big box) and tell them what you want
You will love the results
PS Colors can be scarey for us old school dudes, but once they are up there...
 
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Old 08-18-04, 04:33 AM
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always been a fan of colors

I have always preferred different colors for different rooms. Makes the house more interesting.

Do get your paint from a paint store, not a big box. Yes, the extra $$ is worth it. Sherwin-Williams, Benjamin Moore, Pratt & Lambert are very good national brands. There are some regional brands that are also very good.

And don't go cheap on the tools either. Quality tools make the job faster and easier.

Are you using any deep colors? Be warned that reds and deep greens can be tough for a h/o.
 
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Old 08-18-04, 04:55 AM
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The original post asked for reccomendations on paint and it's duribility. Behr paint from the Depot is rated better than Ben Moores.It is 100% acrylic latex. Costs less than $20 a gallon and it color matched for free. Your local paint store will give you no better,maybe not as good, and charge you EXTRA for everything. tinting is probably $4 alone and the paint may be $30 a gallon+. Behr paint is not cheap. The paint in the paint store is overpriced. Because it costs more doesn't mean it is better. I would check consumer reports for their reccomendations. Things may have changed since the last time I checked and saw BEHR at or near the top and some of the more notable names falling in line behind them. Why pay extra for rent and advertising. Look at the ingredients. !00% acrylic is as good as it gets. I would be interested in hearing some of the problems that people have had with products like BEHR. I have been using it for more than 10 years and no problems at all.As stated above deep calors are a nuisance with all paints. Don't expect to put on a perfect first coat, and you may require 3 coats.
 
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Old 08-18-04, 06:04 AM
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read other posts on paint brands

If you have used Behr fo 10 years with no problems, then good for you. Other have not been so lucky. Many of the paint problems on this and other forums have usually involved Behr paints.

I have never been charged extra for tinting. Color matches are always free.
You are paying extra for better ingredients and chemistry, not rent and ads.

There is more to paint than 100% acrylic. If that was all that mattered , there would be no difference between interior and exterior paints nor any difference between paints and primers. What matters is the chemistry and each brand and different lines within each brand will have different chemical formulas.

Prowallguy has written several posts on the differences in quality. These are little things that the average h/o (and consumer testing groups) know little or nothing about. Yet these "little thing" make a huge difference in performance - how well the paint is applied, how well it looks after, how long it looks good, etc.

As for rating in a popular consumer mag: What is tops one year, falls short the next. There is little consistency in that brands ratings from year to year. I gave up on that mag when they criticized a sports car for handling like a sports car!
 
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Old 08-18-04, 07:30 AM
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I know there is more to paint than acrylic. I also know that Ben Moore,at least in NY, charges for custom color tinting. At least $4 and maybe more if it is a deep color. I will have to disagree with you that the extra cost of BM or others is solely for better material. I doubt that there is $10 worth of material in a gallon of the best paint to begin with,including the can. Don't get me wrong. BM is good paint I just think it is overpriced. I also think BEHR is good paint just not so overpriced. I will stick with my ascertion that alot of it is advertising. Sometimes peple think if they charge more it must be better. This is not necessarilly true. BTW denaluu whatever paint you choose get clean the walls thoroughly,{I use solax pro-no rinsing]get some bullseye 123 [zinsser] tinted to your color and use it as your first coat. Eliminates sanding. you should go around the room and check for drips and dirt in the paint before 123 goes on. A lite scuff sand can't hurt either. I always add Floetrol[does not change the color of the paint]to the paint it helps reduce the orange peel effect and aids in keeping a wet edge.
 
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Old 08-18-04, 01:32 PM
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WOW... I didnt mean to start a debate.. Great info though, this is the stuff that you dont see in all the books.

I have always used Dunn Edwards (I think thats right ), is that compatable with BEHR, or how do you know if the paint is compatable with the paint that you have used in the past? I want to make sure I do this right the first time around.

I will only go with the more lighter colors. This is a first for me and my husband (going with colors that is) and I dont want to be the cause a heattattack or something, lol....


Thank you!!!!!!
 
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Old 08-18-04, 02:01 PM
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maybe you mean Cook and Dunn[Ithink that is it] which was also an exellent product[rated the best by CR---just kidding although I really think it was]. If you use the 123 like I suggested you can go over whatever you have. No compatibility issues. I somehow get a vision of some serious orange peel effect on your walls. If my vision is correct it would be advisable to sand the walls with apole sander[depot again] to remove this look. When you go to paint add the floetrol to the paint and mix well with a paint stick. I have to say that the last time I painted my own kitchen I tried a foam roller cover and the results were fabulous, and virtually no splatter. I saw it in a book at amazon.Painting secrets by Brian Santos. Read it in Barnes and Nobles, some good tips in there check it out Not nearly as fast as a regular roller cover but a perfect finish if you pay attention to what you are doing..They also clean up fast. Get some tray liners while you are at the store picking up the paint. Can't emphasize enough the importance of good brishes. You can get away with 1- 21/2 or 3 inch angled brush. Clean it good and it will be the last one you have to buy
 
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Old 08-18-04, 03:16 PM
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Click this link for my opinions on Behr and Consumer Reports.

Point here is though, use quality tools and products to achieve a quality finish. Marketing does not make a product good. Do a search for 'Behr' throughout all the forums, and look at the problems reported there.
 
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Old 08-18-04, 04:21 PM
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If I recall correctly The reason behr paint does not cover as well as BM is that they do not add so much of the ingredient that gets paint to cover well[not pigment].This does not mean that they skimp on the expensive ingredients. It was actually an inexpensive ingredient. They actually stated this on the can if I recall correctly. I have never [exept for 1 red room] had to put on more than 2 coats of paint to cover most paint, and I ALWAYS add floetrol to the paint as stated above. It is just good stuff and eliminates practically all of the problems stated in the link.I dont say they aren't valid in some instances. BM paint needs to cover because people who hire painters want to see it and they want to do no more than 2 coats. I think behr has re formulated recently to provide better coverage. I do not like their ceiling paint although it is way whiter than BM.Next to each other BM looks grey.
Did anyone ever find out what is the ingredient list of Behr paint, there was a lot of criticism if nobody ever found out
 
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Old 08-18-04, 07:34 PM
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For the love of God please don't use Behr! Sorry had to say it
 
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Old 08-18-04, 07:35 PM
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Good luck trying to find Data sheets on Behr . They don't disclose it normally, they must be ashamed
 
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Old 08-18-04, 10:19 PM
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I also wont use behr. I have seen poor adhesion with it. I would also say that I like semigloss as interior for the ease of clean up. I would tsp the old semigloss, to clean it, to dull it, or lightly sand it. Color is great! Especially nice with contrasting trim. Dunn Edwards is quality paint.
 
  #15  
Old 08-19-04, 01:41 PM
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To answer denaluu's question

A good quality paint that can be used for your job would Behr's Flat Enamel or Eggshell sheen. They are both 100% Latex/ Acrylic and very washable especially for my 3 year old that writes on the walls. You can find this paint just about anywhere. Generally Dunn and Behr paints are compatible going one over the other since they are water based products. A simple test to see if your coating is an oil or water would be to take some rubbing or denatured alchohol and wipe it accross the surface. If the paint/pigment comes off or the paint softens then it would be a water based product.

On another note. A sad thing about bulletin boards is that people like to write a lot of misinformation. There are many differences between different manufacturers products. Vinyls, Urethanes and Acrylic resisns just to name a few. Many manufacturers make multiple lines of paints and when compared to others they dont match up. You can buy P&L for $40 or buy Behr for $20 and show that it performs better. Then there are people that had problems with a certain manufacturer and make it seem to others that everytime they opened a can from that manufacturer and applied its paint that the job looked horrible. These people have too much pride to look in the mirror and say "hmmm..... Did I have anything to do with that?". I dare these people to look up the reasons for their problem i.e. blistering, lapmarks or brushmarks on a reputable site and then tell me that its the paints fault. That someone at the paint plant added a little blistering or a little bit of lapmarks. Paint is inatimate until you physically make a choice to open the can and then work with it. It cannot say apply me a little slower or work a little faster. Or even the tool that you are applying me with is the worst quality. It cannot tell you that you applied it in too hot or cold temperatures or even say that nothing dries when it rains outside. When I am in the Big Box stores picking up my paint I hear stories all day long. Did we forget that painting is a trade skill and not everyone has the skills to be a great painter. I have pride in my field and think that just about every manufacturer makes a great product and have had my own issues with them but I dont bash people because of my initial experience. When I paint houses for people I sell them on the long term quality of the product. So far I havent read on any board a bad experience with the Behr after 5-10 years. Its all during the application and you are the one applying it.
 
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Old 08-19-04, 01:43 PM
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pbtroy post the data sheet of the product that you use......
 
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Old 08-19-04, 03:00 PM
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Sure .. Just go to the website of Sherwin Williams, Diamond Vogel. or Hallman Lindsay, > They make it publicly available. And btw this isnt what I rely on completely for determining product quality. Ive used Behr . But if you like it Knock yourself out.
 
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Old 08-19-04, 07:34 PM
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Great post by Mr. Anderson.
Did we forget that painting is a trade skill and not everyone has the skills to be a great painter.
Yep, for some reason, over the past 15-20 years, the general consensus is that anyone can do it. Wrong.
Here is a link to the data sheet on the residential interior finish I prefer to use. It is only one of many paints I use, depending on the application or specs. Sorry, couldn't copy it, its a PDF file.
TDS
 
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Old 08-19-04, 08:08 PM
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Mr. Anderson, you didn't allow me to give any suggestions to this person. You touched base on every thing that needs attention.

Everyone has their own opinion on the quality of paint. Consumer reports has rated Behr best buy. I definately agree with that, I have used Behr for around 5 yrs. and have had very minimal issues. I had issues at the begining because I was a rookie. I take responsability for the issue I had when I first started. My understanding it that 100% acrylic paints are the best. Specially when priming the surface prior to using the paint. Priming seals the surface and allows the paint to flow allot better. You get better adhesion and allows the painter to spread the paint with little to no work. One other thing, with a high quality paint like Behr, you want to invest the money on the tools. Why use a $22 a ga. paint with brushes that run 2 for .99 cents or the value pack of rollers 6 for $1.99. You cant expect any paint to perform the way it should. Lastly, Behr paint is not a one coat guaranteed paint. This is because Behr only makes one quality paint, unlike Ben Moore. I was at a Ben Moore paint once and they had donuts for the contractors. If the contractor bought the low grade they could take 2 donuts. I had to walk out of the store because I couldn't believe what I saw. They brived their cheap contractors to use the cheap paint.

Chuy90650
 
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Old 08-19-04, 08:11 PM
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Thanks guys for all the input. I honestly didn’t realize that their is soo much to paint. Even though I tried to read up on it, their is nothing like seeing everyone’s input, it puts things more into perspective. Unfortunately what I have read is always so influenced by one brand or the other, you cant truly get the truth.

Everyone says to clean the walls with TSP, its sounds to me that it just doesn’t clean the walls it will also help the paint adhere to the wall. If I clean the walls with TSP do I also need to sand or add a primer? Right now I have Dunn Edwards semi-gloss, Swiss coffee on my walls.

Once again Thank you all, hope you all know how true appreciated you are for taking you time to answer my questions.
 
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Old 08-19-04, 10:24 PM
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Pros

The original question was for a Pro's opinion
I have mine, but I do not paint 8 hrs. a day, 5 days a week
Close...but no cigar
PLEASE, are there any PRO's that use BEHR?
PS I'm not bashing, I think this will be useful
 
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Old 08-20-04, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by prowallguy
Great post by Mr. Anderson.

Yep, for some reason, over the past 15-20 years, the general consensus is that anyone can do it. Wrong.
Here is a link to the data sheet on the residential interior finish I prefer to use. It is only one of many paints I use, depending on the application or specs. Sorry, couldn't copy it, its a PDF file.
TDS

How do you know if your a good painter?
 
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Old 08-20-04, 05:58 AM
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Mr. Anderson and denaluu

Mr. Anderson,
I take offense at your insuation that problems with blocking, edge cling, flashing, leveling, etc that prowallguy and pbtroy have is their fault and not that of the paint. I think they both know what thery are doing. Isn't it odd that they don't experience those problems with BM or SW paints?

denaluu,
Dunn Edwards is a regional brand. I only remember reading a few references to it over the years, but they were all favorable. If you have been happy with it, then continue to use it.

To answer your original question: I prefer semi-gloss in my bathrooms and kitchens and satin everywhere else. Scrubability hasn't been a problem with the satin. You will find satin will be easier to get uniform on the walls if using colors. A semi-gloss on the trim will be fine. No, it will not be over-powering. Do give it a month for the paint to fully cure before doing a scrub test. Cure time will vary depending on humidity, temp, quality, etc.
 
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Old 08-20-04, 06:01 AM
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denaluu asks:
If I clean the walls with TSP do I also need to sand or add a primer?
If the walls are already clean, sound, and free from defects, I don't waste my time washing them. I only wash them if its needed. I always run a sanding pole over them to knock down hairs, bumps and boogers, and to provide a little more tooth for the primer/paint to grip onto. I always dust them off afterwards. Dust is the most common cause for adhesion failure. Prime the walls if you are changing sheen levels, IE from semi gloss to flat, or vica versa, or if its a major color change. Primer is also a good idea if there is any doubt about the adhesion, in a humid environment or something of that sort.
Chuy90650 sez:
Consumer reports has rated Behr best buy.
Did you read the link to my opinion on the Consumer Reports and what is your opinion on it?
Slickshift inquires:
are there any PRO's that use BEHR?
I use whatever the GC, architect, decorator, or homeowner specs, but my workmanship warranty reflects the products that I use for each case. Thankfully, most of my clients allow me to spec my own preferred products.
Lightman wants to know:
How do you know if your a good painter?
I reckon if you can make a living at it, and allow your employees to make a living, have a good reputation in your market area, realize a profit from it, have extensive lists of referrals from it, a little-to-none touch up/go back rate, and do all this for close to 20 years, you might be a good painter.
 
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Old 08-20-04, 11:36 AM
Mr. Anderson
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Originally Posted by CHUY90650
Mr. Anderson, you didn't allow me to give any suggestions to this person. You touched base on every thing that needs attention.

You obviously didn't read the first paragraph to my response. Let me repost it for you.


"A good quality paint that can be used for your job would Behr's Flat Enamel or Eggshell sheen. They are both 100% Latex/ Acrylic and very washable especially for my 3 year old that writes on the walls. You can find this paint just about anywhere. Generally Dunn and Behr paints are compatible going one over the other since they are water based products. A simple test to see if your coating is an oil or water would be to take some rubbing or denatured alchohol and wipe it accross the surface. If the paint/pigment comes off or the paint softens then it would be a water based product."
 
  #26  
Old 08-20-04, 12:05 PM
Mr. Anderson
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Originally Posted by BobF
Mr. Anderson,
I take offense at your insuation that problems with blocking, edge cling, flashing, leveling, etc that prowallguy and pbtroy have is their fault and not that of the paint. I think they both know what they are doing. Isn't it odd that they don't experience those problems with BM or SW paints?

BobF,

Not to get into a debate over this but I would think that you being the moderator would be first to notice misinformation. I will agree with you on the blocking and leveling aspects of painting problems not being that of the users fault. And that it would be the rheology of the product that would define leveling or blocking. But flashing is an issue that is caused by either the painter during application or the lack of preparation. Lets be real here Bob you can use BM, SW, PL, Dunn, Behr, Glidden ect... and still have these issues as there are people that exist that have had them. Flashing by definition is:

An uneven gloss with shiny or dull spots on painted surfaces.

Probably caused by improper or no priming of a porous surface or surface with uneven porosity. Poor painting techniques. Painting over fresh paint or primer before its dry. Uneven film thickness causes poor sheen uniformity. Drying during high/low temperatures.

In that definition I cannot find where it points to the product itself. It mentions user error not product quality. The bottom line is that there is a following for every manufacturer of paint all the way down to Old Quacker paints that is half clay half water. It is ok to be a follower of a brand or to have pride in the brands that you use but to give out wrong info is not why these boards are up. For instance you don't help anyone by saying that Behr paint is the only paint that peels when everybody paints there houses with all different manufacturers and they still peel. Blanket statements like this are used to push the person with a question to a certain brand like the one that you would suggest. Bottom line: Give out correct information instead of trying to sell a Brand of paint.
 
  #27  
Old 08-20-04, 02:45 PM
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Mr. Anderson, it was more of a compliment because you gave a detailed explanation on the issue at hand. Unlike some of the other individuals who reply to this forum. Although you sound like you know a lot, I hope that is the case. There are some people out there that are all talk and that is all they are.

Consumer reports is an un-bias magazine. Just because one uses a brand and consumer reports grades them low, one shouldn't be bitter about it. Or try to put blame on the magazine or the type of testing that is done when a product is put to the test.

I would agree with the person who started this post. Some of us like one paint and that is all they use. I use what ever the homeowner wants me to use. If they ask for my opinion, it will give it to them. A good painter can paint with any paint. I don't have 15 to 20 yrs experience, but if I'm given Frezee, I use Frazee. If I'm given Ben Moore, I use Ben Moore. A lot has to do with the application of the product, not just the brand. If a painter will not use a particular brand because of one or two bad reports, I wouldn't have that paitner paint my home. That tells me he is not confident in the work he does.

Chuy90650
 
 

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