what type of paint to use for kitchen cabinets (wood)

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  #1  
Old 12-02-05, 06:46 PM
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what type of paint to use for kitchen cabinets (wood)

Hey guys/gals,

I have circa 70's kitchen cabinets (dark brown stained) wood (not laminate) and I need to spif up the kitchen. I'm thinking of doing it the low budget way, paint. I like the basic finish of the mills pride therafoil (sp) flattish white cabinets. Anyone know how I would accomplish this and what the procedure would be?


thank ya!

you can see the cabinets here:
http://www.kulkarnicorp.com/images/cabinets.jpg
 

Last edited by the_dude; 12-02-05 at 06:57 PM.
  #2  
Old 12-02-05, 10:21 PM
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Those cabinet doors are a problem. The paint will crack at all the joints sooner or later[expansion and contraction]. Stile and rails in the corners and all around where the panel meets the stile and rails are potential problems. It may not be as bad on all the doors as on others,but If they are in pieces meaning glued joints and a floating panel joneq recommends getting new doors and paint the cabinets.

If you choose to paint them you can clean them and degrease them[do this before you sand], sand them if you wish[it is not necessary], prime them with Bullseye 123, Bin, or Coverstain and paint with a self leveling paint that is matched to the color of the Mills Pride door front you "borrow" from the depot.Or match a paint chip to the door and bring it to a paint store since they don't sell the self leveling paint in the depot.If you use the paint crew any latex paint will look good. The lowest possible sheen looks best,but flat is not a good choice.

You may want to score all the joints before it fully cures, but is dry to the touch. I never tried this because I won't paint raised or flat panel doors again. Did it once---no more


I know you didn't ask, but here is some info on the door replacement project

Painted doors over the stove will definitely be a problem. They will also probably be a problem with the RTF doors[heat turns them yellow]. I order an extra pair for over the stove. they are small and therefore cheaper.

If that is all the doors you have It won't be too bad. Drawer fronts are cheap[like $10 average].They don't need to be routed,but the can be, making them cheaper yet. Drilled[for hinges] doors should be maybe $15[probably less] a square ft. of actual door area --- delivered. An 18" by 24" door is $37.50 at $15 a square foot. These are Rigid Thermo Foil[RTF] doors. They also have raw mdf doors ready for paint[definitely not worth the hassle. They have the slick white back on them already



You can change the look to more European so it looks better and more modern imo anyway.I realize some people like that look,but it is dated and the female species likes new. I have done a few of these and it looks great if you leave only 1/4 " between the doors and bring the bottom down flush to the bottom of the frame, so you really never see the paint except on the side panels.you can reuse the handles,but you will need to buy concealed hinges. I use Blum. They have a nice variety for face framed cabinets where concealed hinges will be used.

If this is for the rental it is tax deductible further reducing an already inexpensive face lift. I think most women would rather see the new doors the way it was explained than the painted ones that they will probably be complaining about in an all to short period of time.

This is officially a no brainer. Do not create a potential headache in a rental apartment.If that is what we are talking about. Listen to your joneq, all you want to do is collect the money . the better look may even enable you to charge a little more rent,which is always nice.
 
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Old 12-03-05, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by joneq
Those cabinet doors are a problem.
I figured they might be. Honestly our original intent was to gut the whole kitchen and replace, that is until we found out it'll cost $4000.





Originally Posted by joneq
Drawer fronts are cheap[like $10 average].They don't need to be routed,but the can be, making them cheaper yet.

When you say routed, do you mean the design on the front of the drawers?



Originally Posted by joneq
I have done a few of these and it looks great if you leave only 1/4 " between the doors and bring the bottom down flush to the bottom of the frame, so you really never see the paint except on the side panels.
Thanks for the advice. So you just measure for a bigger door to hide more of the framing? And would you use Mills Pride doors or look for something else? I'm not married to Home Depot

Originally Posted by joneq
you can reuse the handles,but you will need to buy concealed hinges. I use Blum. They have a nice variety for face framed cabinets where concealed hinges will be used
I think we'll replace and use Nickel pulls. Do you know where I can pickup Blum? Are these the type of hinges that you have to countersink into the door face (on the inside)? I always have trouble with that!

Originally Posted by joneq
This is officially a no brainer. Do not create a potential headache in a rental apartment.If that is what we are talking about. Listen to your joneq, all you want to do is collect the money . the better look may even enable you to charge a little more rent,which is always nice.
You are correct it is a rental. We're trying to keep things in perspective, meaning don't try to make the interior look as we would like it to look, make it look good, rentable, but don't sink the ship in doing so. Again, thanks for the valuable advice.
 
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Old 12-03-05, 07:27 AM
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I got something to do now,but when I say routed I mean "make it look like a raised panel door'" The edges of the doors and drawer fronts look better imo if they have a routed edge on them but it costs money to do it. A simple rtf door with a flat surface doesn't look bad and is very easy to clean. It costs more to route them so they look like raised panel doors,but it looks better imo.

to measure the doors find the middle of the frame where the hinge is now attached to and mark a line 1/8 of an inch on each side.This gives you 1/4 inch between the doors. To get the size of the door measure between the appropriate marks and walla that is the size you need.

The door are pre drilled for cup hinges[35mm] and a snap to put in. you need to attach the plate to the frame but you have like 1/8 inch play so it is not that critical.The plate is what gives you the overlay[the distance you need hidden on the hinge side of the door frame[ probably 5/8 "


I get my doors from Canada. It takes 2 weeks to get them and they are cheaper than Mills Pride stock doors.


Need to go now will be back later. Maybe pm you with suppliers.
 

Last edited by joneq; 12-04-05 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 12-03-05, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by the_dude
Anyone know how I would accomplish this and what the procedure would be?
Clean and sand to scuff the surface
Prime with an oil-based primer
Top with two coats quality oil or latex paint
Should be good to go
 
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Old 12-03-05, 09:23 AM
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If SS says it is ok to paint them then I [err you] should try it.My experience with them may have been unique to me.Virtually every corner eventually peeled and cracked where the pieces of the cabinet door frames were joined.All the doors were cleaned meticulously, primed with 123, and top coated 2 or 3 coats good paint.

My doors were sprayed[hvlp]. It may help to not spray them since the joint between the panel and frame will not be covered so much in paint and may not crack as bad or at all. That still leaves the corners. They could be handled the same way[no spray] and it would help I think,but joneq doesn't like to leave things to chance. I don't like to hear my tenants on the other end of the phone. It is never good news.


It is much easier to replace the doors than to paint them 3 times and wait to see if the problem will happen. Hopefully the teneants will clean the cabinets once in a while and depending on how they do it and what they use you may be back in their in short order. I am really not concerned with the teneants losing security deposits I am concerned with the hassle of repainting.Not really a problem with RTF doors as long as nor abrasives are used. and replacing a damaged door is a snap, and the tenants pay.

I believe I gave you pretty good advice on how to paint your cabinets,and because joneq does not think it is a good idea does not mean you should not do it.

There are other thingsto take into account though not the least of which is tenants slamming frame and panel doors shut This is another problem that causes movement at the joints.

I went to the site that I get my doors from[haven't ordered in a while] and the 2 week wait is more like 4 1/2 now. That does not change my mind about painting tha cabinet doors. You can pay a modest fee to get them sooner.I will drop out of the thread now. Good luck which ever way you go.
 
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Old 12-03-05, 01:19 PM
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I have painted similiar cabinets several times and never had a call back.
As slickshift said sanding and cleaning are important. I like to use a deglosser prior to priming with a solvent based primer.
 
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Old 12-03-05, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by joneq
If SS says it is ok to paint them then I [err you] should try it.My experience with them may have been unique to me.Virtually every corner eventually peeled and cracked where the pieces of the cabinet door frames were joined.All the doors were cleaned meticulously, primed with 123, and top coated 2 or 3 coats good paint.

My doors were sprayed[hvlp]. It may help to not spray them since the joint between the panel and frame will not be covered so much in paint and may not crack as bad or at all. That still leaves the corners. They could be handled the same way[no spray] and it would help I think,but joneq doesn't like to leave things to chance. I don't like to hear my tenants on the other end of the phone. It is never good news.


It is much easier to replace the doors than to paint them 3 times and wait to see if the problem will happen. Hopefully the teneants will clean the cabinets once in a while and depending on how they do it and what they use you may be back in their in short order. I am really not concerned with the teneants losing security deposits I am concerned with the hassle of repainting.Not really a problem with RTF doors as long as nor abrasives are used. and replacing a damaged door is a snap, and the tenants pay.

I believe I gave you pretty good advice on how to paint your cabinets,and because joneq does not think it is a good idea does not mean you should not do it.

There are other thingsto take into account though not the least of which is tenants slamming frame and panel doors shut This is another problem that causes movement at the joints.

I went to the site that I get my doors from[haven't ordered in a while] and the 2 week wait is more like 4 1/2 now. That does not change my mind about painting tha cabinet doors. You can pay a modest fee to get them sooner.I will drop out of the thread now. Good luck which ever way you go.
Thanks for the advice. What Canadian supplier do you purchase from? I'm in Canada.....

Thx
 
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Old 12-03-05, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by marksr
... priming with a solvent based primer.
marksr,
Would BIN be a solvent based primer?
I would call it a shellac-based but I don't hear the term solvent based primer very often
Or do you mean more like Kilz (Original) where you must use mineral spirits for clean up?
Just checking
Thanks
 
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Old 12-04-05, 09:40 AM
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I'd call any primer that isn't water-based a solvent primer, especially in a diy forum. Getting too specific just plain confuses people. But in a pro atmosphere, I'd call it a shellac primer, because I would be understood.

Speaking of Kilz, that has to be the most over-rated, over-used, mis-used product on the face of the earth (that Sherwin is trying to cover). As the name implies, it is a stain killer, no more, no less. It doesn't level well (meaning not a good underbody), doesn't penetrate well because it dries too fast (meaning not the best in adhesion), and dries too soft for my tastes (thanks to the new VOC laws).

As for painting cabinet door with reliefs or routered edges, we usually run a tiny bead of caulk along the edges to give it a more finished look. Also keeps them from splitting if they are threatening too. We also always use a solvent, alkyd, or oil primer on these due to a couple ugly failures several years ago. A water-based primer reacted with the adhesive used to laminate the facings to the wood substrate creating large bubbles. We had to use a heatgun to remove the laminate, and prep the wood to paint it. Never again will I deal with a dozen+ doors bubbling and popping up.
 
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Old 12-04-05, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by prowallguy
I'd call any primer that isn't water-based a solvent primer, especially in a diy forum. Getting too specific just plain confuses people. But in a pro atmosphere, I'd call it a shellac primer, because I would be understood.
Aha, thanks
Originally Posted by prowallguy
Speaking of Kilz, that has to be the most over-rated, over-used, mis-used product on the face of the earth (that Sherwin is trying to cover). As the name implies, it is a stain killer, no more, no less. It doesn't level well (meaning not a good underbody), doesn't penetrate well because it dries too fast (meaning not the best in adhesion), and dries too soft for my tastes (thanks to the new VOC laws).
I agree, and that's 1/2 of why I was asking
Originally Posted by prowallguy
We also always use a solvent, alkyd, or oil primer on these due to a couple ugly failures several years ago.
That's the other 1/2
I'd use BIN (shellac-based) or a quality oil based primer, but not Kilz (wasn't sure what that was-hence my request for qualification) and not latex primer for this app.
Originally Posted by prowallguy
As for painting cabinet door with reliefs or routered edges, we usually run a tiny bead of caulk along the edges to give it a more finished look.
Hmmm...sounds good
Thanks for the tip
 
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Old 12-04-05, 10:59 AM
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The main reason I use the term solvent primer is [as pwg said] it covers both shellac and oil or alkyld primers [also it is easier to phrase it this way - or am I just lazy

There are too many brands that will do the job to mention them all [as if I could recall every brand ] But sufice it to say most any solvent based primer will adhere better and hide stains better than its latex counterpart.

I remember when kilz first came out. WHAT A BLESSING no longer was pigmented shellac the only option. I don't think that kilz is no longer the product it used to be but that competitor products have been devoloped and improved to be a better product. I have often used 'kilz' as a generic name for oil base stain hiding primers. Since becoming a member of the forums I've tried not to use the old generic terms from the jobsites but it is hard to teach an old dog -er painter- new tricks.
 
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Old 12-04-05, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by marksr
The main reason I use the term solvent primer is [as pwg said] it covers both shellac and oil or alkyld primers [also it is easier to phrase it this way
That makes perfect sense
Originally Posted by marksr
But sufice it to say most any solvent based primer will adhere better and hide stains better than its latex counterpart.
I'm with you
Originally Posted by marksr
I remember when kilz first came out.
...OK, I won't touch that one (j/k )
Originally Posted by marksr
WHAT A BLESSING no longer was pigmented shellac the only option.
It had been around maybe ten years when I started, and we would use it often (knots and such) on the crew I was on
That would've been mostly under oil paint on trim and wainscotting

Although it is often said that Kilz isn't what it used to be, you have a good point, the market has developed much better products overall then we had 20 years ago
That's a fact
 
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Old 12-04-05, 03:06 PM
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Detailed Cabinet rebuilding advice
Primer 101 course
Thanks guys.
 
 

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