What am I doing wrong?


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Old 10-18-06, 04:20 PM
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What am I doing wrong?

We painted our walls in a new house with Lowes American Tradition Signature Acrylic satin wall paint. We used rollers to do the walls. We did the "W pattern", then went back and rolled from top to bottom. When the paint dried you can see roller marks in the paint.If you look straight at it it's fine, looking at an angle it looks bad and it's a mess. We did a second coat and it looks the same-how do we get nice smooth painted walls without roller marks? Is it the paint?
 
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Old 10-18-06, 05:30 PM
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While i'm no pro by any means, this is what i discovered through years of painting. If you want a good job, you need to use the best materials. I use a good "Sherwin Williams" primer and paint. I stay away from those home depot or lowes brands, i just never had results like i'm getting now.

Also, i can't stress the actual roller sleeve. I use a 3/8 nap soft woven roller......not those cheap ones you find in a 3 pack. Yeah, it may cost more for a single roller but i don't have the problem of lint and fuzz coming off the roller and onto my newly painted walls.
I'll just buy the rollers by the box and use them once, then toss 'em out when i'm done.

Bottom line......buy good material.
 
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Old 10-18-06, 05:38 PM
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I was using 1/4 inch nap shur-line premium rollers. I think I will try the 3/8 nap and get a better roller. What is the best type of roller sleeve to get as far as brand and material? I bought this brand of paint based on a consumers report rating article.
 
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Old 10-18-06, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by wsx123
I was using 1/4 inch nap shur-line premium rollers. I think I will try the 3/8 nap and get a better roller. What is the best type of roller sleeve to get as far as brand and material? I bought this brand of paint based on a consumers report rating article.
Well, seems like you're getting good stuff to work with. Are you getting excess of paint at the ends of the roller while painting?
That sounds like it could be the problem. Other than that, i'm lost.
 
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Old 10-18-06, 06:08 PM
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Sometimes extra paint comes off the ends, then I go back over it to smooth it out. I think I will try a roller made of better material and a different paint tray. It just looks like the paint isn't going on even.
 
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Old 10-18-06, 06:10 PM
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You will get better results with a 3/8" nap. 1/4" should be reserved for slick surfaces like a flat wood door. I believe you just aren't getting enough paint on the wall.

Shurline and purdy both make quality roller covers. I prefer the 100% lambswool cover but then I'm old school Quality coatings are seldom found at the big box stores and good paint can make a difference.

Since you have already applied 2 coats, I would skip the W pattern and load your roller well, make a stripe from top to bottom, repeat with a 2nd stripe and as your cover gets drier reroll the first stripe - repeat for the length of the wall. Also on the final pass use a little less pressure on the roller to avoid any 'lines'.

hope this helps
 
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Old 10-18-06, 06:14 PM
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I have a couple of questions for you as well. When you say "new house" is it new to you, or New New. If new, what kind of primer was used? Was it an actual primer, designed to hold out gloss, or was it the cheapest stuff "because its just primer"? This could be part of the issue.

Also, how much sun does this wall get? How long a run is it? Is the light it gets head on, or down the wall?

The questions thus far have been related to tools, and those are some excellent areas to work with. However, I am interested in some product issues as well.

Thanks, and look forward to your response.

MMMMMMM lambswool.....that is oldschool, but I tell you what it is awesome how much those covers can hold. Synthetic cant touch it!
 
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Old 10-18-06, 06:15 PM
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First - most pros will not use that brand. Bottom line is that what CR looks for in a paint is far from what a pro considers important. With paint, you do get what you pay for. All of this has been hashed over many times.

Second - what color are you using? My hunch is that it is not an off-white.
 
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Old 10-18-06, 06:25 PM
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It's a sea mist green, in the off white color chips.the house is new new, we waited 1 year to paint to get rid of any problems with the drywall, nail pops etc...the wall does not get direct sunlight and it is abouit 40 feet long with 9 foot ceilings.
We are not sure what was on the walls but it was cheap flat paint that came off if you rubbed up against it.
 
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Old 10-18-06, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by wsx123
It's a sea mist green, in the off white color chips.the house is new new, we waited 1 year to paint to get rid of any problems with the drywall, nail pops etc...the wall does not get direct sunlight and it is abouit 40 feet long with 9 foot ceilings.
We are not sure what was on the walls but it was cheap flat paint that came off if you rubbed up against it.
Ok, now we are getting somewhere. Next question, did you prime before painting?

Lets assume not. You have gotten yourself in a bit of a pickle my friend. Your cheap flat is going to suck up your topcoat like a thirsty drunk on nickle beer night. Also, if I remember correctly your first coat was with a lesser quality roller cover.

The problem you have now is that your wall is crisscrossed with roller marks. I am afraid that simply putting 1 or even 2 more coats is not going to give you the satisfactory result that you are looking for. If I were in your shoes, here is what I would do.

1. Wait about 1 week before doing anything more. At this point you are not helping by topcoating anymore.

2. After a week, run your hand up and down the walls. Can you "feel" the roller marks, etc. Does your wall feel smooth? If not, you either will be doing some sanding, or need to use a special primer that can "fill" in some of the problem areas. Depending upon what way you go, the primer is best done with a sprayer. Sanding is harder (physically) but much easier to maintain than a sprayer if you don't know what you are doing.
After sanding I would still prime with a high quality latex primer (this doesn't have to be sprayed) such as SWP Classic Latex Primer. It goes on heavy and does have some smoothing features. Also, it sands like a dream. Many latex primers get "ropey" when you sand. This one powders, and has excellent gloss retention and holdout.

3. Topcoat with a quality latex satin or eg-shell. I would also add some XIM Latex Extender. This will slow down the drying of the walls by 15-30 minutes. Doesn't sound like a lot, but maintaining that wet edge is your best friend. Spraying and backrolling would be nice for that size run. You could also seriously consider a 18" roller. More paint, and less rolling.

Good luck. But please stop painting, and let things cure out. I fear you are now chasing bad money with good.
 
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Old 10-18-06, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by wsx123
We are not sure what was on the walls but it was cheap flat paint that came off if you rubbed up against it.
Probably a cheap line of off white used by many builders possibly applied with no primer. Shouldn't matter at this point, your 2 coats of enamel should have the wall sealed now.
 
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Old 10-18-06, 06:56 PM
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The roller marks we can see but you can't feel them when you rub your hand over them.
so now that I know my walls suck, is swp classic latex primer still the way to go?
swp is that Sherw n William?
 
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Old 10-18-06, 07:02 PM
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Yes, that is correct. I would still wait a few days. You need to let the coatings cure up a bit. This way if some sanding needs to be done, it will be easier and less "ropey" and less prone to clog your sanding block.

The SW (Sherwin-Williams) Classic primer would be ideal for this wall.
 
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Old 10-18-06, 07:10 PM
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Thanks for the painting 101 damage control.
Hope you all have a good night-
 
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Old 10-19-06, 05:23 AM
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I disagree with groundbeef on the benifits of a primer at this stage but if you do decide to prime, be sure to have the primer tinted to the top coat color.

Are you utilizing a roller pole to make the job easier? Also rolling out of a 5 gal bucket is easier/faster than using a tray.

I think you will find that using a better grade of paint will make application easier. SWP = sherwin williams paints.

If you go with SWP I recomend you use nothing cheaper than promar 200 [good contractor line] Their super paint is super , they also have some even better paint for ofcourse more money.
 
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Old 10-19-06, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by marksr
I disagree with groundbeef on the benifits of a primer at this stage but if you do decide to prime, be sure to have the primer tinted to the top coat color.
And what is your disagreement? I am sure that as a professional, you are aware that dry paint is approx 1 sheet of notebook paper dry. Any bumps or roller lines will telegraph through to the next coat.

The problem that the OP may have now is not going to be related to the inital problems of a satin over cheap flat. The problem now is that the paint has resulted in lines of uneven application due to poor roller quality.

The primer that I suggested will help to "bridge" the surface and make it smoother for subsequent coats. Also, this primer sands to a powder, and gives excellent gloss retention and holdout. ProMar 200 is an excellent line, but doesn't hold a candle to the capabilties of Classic Primer. (Not to be confused with the Classic 99 line...just below SuperPaint). For the ultimate finish, I would use the Cashmere line in the Eg-shel (satin) finish.

Normally I wouldn't suggest a primer over the exisiting finish, but I feel that this is a special case. You must also consider the size of the wall. Maybe for a 8-12' wall, but this is a mamoth 40' long. Why skimp, and then have to do it again.

Your milage may vary, but thanks for posting!
 
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Old 10-19-06, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by groundbeef
And what is your disagreement? Any bumps or roller lines will telegraph through to the next coat.

wsx123 stated that the walls felt smooth indicating that the roller marks could be seen not felt which to me means 1 coat of quality material applied correctly should rectify the problem.
I hate to see anyone do extra work if it isn't needed.

BTW I wasn't trying to imply that the promar 200 was SWPs best paint, only that I couldn't recomend using anything cheaper.
 
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Old 10-19-06, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by marksr
wsx123 stated that the walls felt smooth indicating that the roller marks could be seen not felt which to me means 1 coat of quality material applied correctly should rectify the problem.
I hate to see anyone do extra work if it isn't needed.

BTW I wasn't trying to imply that the promar 200 was SWPs best paint, only that I couldn't recomend using anything cheaper.
Fair enough. As stated, PM 200 is an excellent line.

However, with as much trouble as the OP has been having, I would feel more comfortable with priming. He already has one nightmare to deal with. I would rather cap it now, and not have to deal with the "But you said one coat would cover it, and now it isn't".

Also, the simple run the hand down the wall may not be "smooth". It may feel smooth, but with a satin and/or semi-gloss it WILL telegraph any imperfections.
 
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Old 10-19-06, 08:01 PM
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What would happen if I just used a better quality eggshell paint rather than satin mixed to the same color and applied it with a better grade roller and put this over what I have now.
 
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Old 10-19-06, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wsx123
What would happen if I just used a better quality eggshell paint rather than satin mixed to the same color and applied it with a better grade roller and put this over what I have now.

That's what I would do and recommend
Go with at least a 50/50 Wool/Poly roller and Ben Moore AquaVelvet or Sherwin Williams equivalent
Use at least a 3/8" nap

Some technique tips for avoiding roller marks:

*Don't try and squeeze every last drop out of the sleeve
More like apply, or lay, the paint down off the roller

* As it is eggshell, I'd recommend cutting in then rolling one wall at a time, and making sure the final rolls are always vertical

*Try to move quick enough so you always "maintain a wet edge" on the applied paint (don't let it dry), so you don't put the roller over already dried paint
Not hyperspeed, lol...just don't let the "edge" sit long enough to start drying
 

Last edited by slickshift; 10-22-06 at 07:20 AM. Reason: added nap size
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Old 10-20-06, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by wsx123
What would happen if I just used a better quality eggshell paint rather than satin mixed to the same color and applied it with a better grade roller and put this over what I have now.

Eg-Shel/Satin. These are marketing terms. The sheen on both is within a few degrees of each other. The better grade roller is an excellent idea. However, bear in mind that the run of wall space you have is enourmous. 40' is a huge area. Maintain a wet edge, and use something like XIM latex extender if you need more time to paint.

Good luck!
 
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Old 10-21-06, 07:25 AM
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thanks again for the input!
 
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Old 10-22-06, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by wsx123
thanks again for the input!
No problem

Oh, I should add to my list use at least a 3/8 nap

Good luck
 
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Old 10-22-06, 11:05 AM
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Well I bought some better 3/8 inch woven roller sleeves from a real paint store not the home improvement store so this should work out better. I found out my original walls had no primer and only 2 coats of flat paint.
 
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Old 10-22-06, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by groundbeef
Eg-Shel/Satin. These are marketing terms. The sheen on both is within a few degrees of each other.
just to point out that Eggshell and Satin are NOT within a few degrees of each other. for example, Hirshfield's Platinum Ceramic Eggshell is 10.0 @85 degrees and the Platinum Ceramic Satin is 52.0 @ 85 degrees. while these numbers are not the same for every brand, the difference is pretty typical
 
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Old 10-26-06, 07:34 PM
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Thumbs up

Well after all your help and suggestions, the 3rd coat did it!
I could not believe the difference a better roller makes! And I ended up without any roller marks. I used the same paint as the first 2 coats.Thanks again to everyone.
Now I can start on my baseboards and then put my floor down!
 
 

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