Bubbled paint?


  #1  
Old 01-08-07, 01:04 PM
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Bubbled paint?

We repainted the kids room. Semigloss was on the walls.Walls were in terrible shape.
I primered prior to drywall work,had to, paint kept rolling up with drywall mud.
Primered after repair work was done.

First coat of Dutch Boy paint from Sears ran like a scalded dog,backrolled to get runs out,called it first coat. ( First mistake was using a Wagner Paint sprayer) We let it set up over night.Went to paint second coat. paint bubbled like mad.Tried a low thick nap roller, then tried a foam roller,no diff.We wiped out bubbles with wet rag, stopped painting.
Unsure how to solve bubbling problem.

I do floors and trim this paint stuff is a pain t
Please help.
 
  #2  
Old 01-08-07, 04:51 PM
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Did the bubbles occur over spots where you used a spackle?


Jan
 
  #3  
Old 01-08-07, 05:12 PM
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No.

I have some background in drywall so it was finished properly,this is why I am befuddled.It was wide spread.

The first coat fisheyed slightly.

Is it conceivable it was a bumb patch of paint?
 
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Old 01-08-07, 06:08 PM
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It's conceivable
I'd suspect another form of contamination, possibly from the sprayer
Or of/in/from/on the primer
But yeah, it could be a bad batch of paint

If you pop a bubble, what shows underneath?
The other coat of paint, the primer, or the drywall?
 
  #5  
Old 01-09-07, 05:19 AM
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Some areas it shows the first coat of paint other areas it shows the primer.
I used a Kiltz primer then patched the walls, I then used more kiltz primer proir to painting.

It was very humid in the room when I was painting, but no more humid than a hot summer eve.I am in the midwest.It was raining outside also.
 
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Old 01-09-07, 07:23 AM
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*Second mistake was using Kilz 2/Kilz Latex as a primer
The stuff's not too good, has a high rate of failure


...errrr hold on
Can you confirm that the primer was a latex/water-based Kilz?
Or was it oil-based (alkyd...Kilz calls it "Original Kilz")?

And also, the semi- that was on the walls, was that oil or latex?
(there's a test for dried paint up in the stickies at the top of the paint forum)
 
  #7  
Old 01-09-07, 07:31 AM
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All latex.
 
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Old 01-09-07, 07:46 AM
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Cool

Ok, even with the latex Kilz track record, it still doesn't sound like that was failing

It still sounds like the primered surface, or the paint was contaminated

What was the dry time in between coats?
 
  #9  
Old 01-09-07, 07:48 AM
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Overnight and half of the next day
 
  #10  
Old 01-09-07, 05:14 PM
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Hmmm....

Well, without seeing it, I'm going with bad paint

Let it dry as long as poss.
Lightly sand with Fine/180/220
Wipe clean
Pop and fill bubbles if needed
Try a coat of Ben Moore Regal
See what happens
* might want to try a test area first
 
  #11  
Old 01-10-07, 05:47 AM
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I will try this and keep you posted,thanks for your input.
 
  #12  
Old 01-13-07, 03:57 AM
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Hello,
While a bad batch of paint is possible, it's pretty rare for one to make it to the shelves. Still, I've seen it happen once or twice.
If I'm reading this correctly, it seems that nothing wants to stick to the walls.
ie: the roller picking up the drywall mud & the coatings failing.
Does everything fail own to a previous layer?
If so, what is the condition of that layer?
Are these by chance old plaster walls? & When was the house built?
If so, does everything fail down to a light tan colored surface?
- Many houses built right after WWII - in the Building/Baby boom - where put up in what is best described as a frenzy by gangs of workers. They would start on one end of a street, and assembly line style, knock out the entire street in a couple of weeks.
Plastered walls, which normally require 30 days to cure, were often coated with glue wall size as a barrier coat to seal in the free lime of the "hot" plaster. After a number of years, and after numerous repaintings, the glue size often lets go.

The way to deal with that type of failure is to get one of the long handled razor type wallpaper stripping tools. Work the edge under one of the spots and simply zip off all the coats of paint down to the hard plaster. The good news here is that this type of failure is usually complete, and the multiple coats of paint will all come off in large sheets. Don't break apart these lagre sheets since they are bound to have a fair amount of lead paint. Dispose of them properly, according to your local codes.
-------------------------------------------------------
 
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Old 01-13-07, 04:17 AM
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If the above doesn't apply - the walls aren't plaster, etc,- then it's probable that there's either a contaminate on the surface, or the substrate your going over is a type that won't accpet a top coat. If the house was previously owned, there's an endless possibility/variety of all sorts of weird/unknown coaitngs that could have been applied. { the present rehab we're working on is a good example. One of the previous owners refinished the kitchen cabinet doors with white traffic marking paint! The stuff they stripe parking lots & streets with.} I've known of instances where someone used a two part industrial epoxy on walls also - without converting it!. They either stole it from a job site or came by it some way other than buying it & had no idea how to use the stuff. The guy came into the store to complain that his paint was still wet after being on for over a week.

My point here is that it's often hard to know exactly what someone put on the surface in years gone by.
It's possible that they used an overrun of a polymide epoxy semi gloss - the type used on school walls. Polymide has all the visable charcteristics of a normal semi gloss enamel. It's highly resistant to anything sticking to it though, expect another coat of polymide. Even pigmented shellac, which will usually stick to anything, will let go.

With a pretty much unknown substrate &/or contaminate, it might be time to consider a tear down and put up new drywall. Sometimes these situations happen where fixing the existing is often more time & $$ intensive than just tearing it out and starting fresh.

Any more info you can give will also help - such as the above questions - and also:
What steps did you take to prep the surface?
The bubbles - are they small bubbles or are they quarter-sized or larger?
Do they lay back down after they dry or do they stay bubbled?
(I've seen surfaces that looked like a toad - all bubbled - that layed back down after they cured for a week.
You say the walls were in "terrible shape". Can you give me some specifics?

Hang in there - we'll work this through.
 
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Old 01-13-07, 05:13 AM
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The walls are drywall, they are coated with two coats of semigloss applied at some time in the past.
I coverd then with Kilz so I coud do the drywall work.
I then recoverd them with a sprayed primer a second time after the drywall work was done.

The next day I layed on the first coat of Dutch Boy, it ran terrible.I had to back roll it all to get the runs out. I may have put to much on after see your wagner comments. It dried blotchy from the rolling.When I was back rolling it I noticed in some areas the paint was almost coming off the wall with the roller.
This was the blotchy look when it dried.
The second coat next day: Same batch of paint,
I started to spray it on it bubbled I put the sprayer away and we rolled it on it started bubbling again.I thought is was the roller,I got a foam roller, no difference.
Small bubbles like you described but the ones we did not wipe out did not go back down.
It was very humid in the room. But no more than a hot summer eve.
 
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Old 01-13-07, 05:34 AM
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Did you sand the walls prior to applying the latex kilz? Is it possible that the original semi-gloss was oil base?
 
  #16  
Old 01-13-07, 05:45 AM
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Hello,
I'm thinking you probalby did get the sprayed material on too thick and the old surface wasn't scuffed enough to assure proper adhesion.
I'll echo marksr's question about sanding the semi gloss prior to putting on the Kilz?

This may not be as bad as I initially thought if the job is still fairly fresh.

A 30 day cure of the paint you just applied should make it hard enough to sand out the small bubbles.
Large - quarter sized and up - bubbles usually indicate a serious loss of adhesion.

I'd also go along with the suggestion of using Benny Moore instead of Dutch Boy. I've never been real happy with the way DB goes on.
 
 

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