Tinted primers and dark reds

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  #1  
Old 08-27-07, 08:04 AM
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Tinted primers and dark reds

Hi all,

I am about to paint a room with a dark tone of red which is primed with a white primer. When I went to the paint shop the girl told that I should first apply a tinted primer or the color might not look like the paint chip when I am done. I though I could just give an extra coat or the red, since I am using a pretty good premium paint, that it should work. She said no, an extra coat of paint would not give me the same result as the tinted prime as base. Is it true? If yes, why?

Thanks,
Alex
 
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  #2  
Old 08-27-07, 09:59 AM
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w e l l .....k i n d a.....
I know what she means, but what she's saying isn't exactly true

To be sure, a tinted primer is a good idea with reds
But it is not always needed
It depends on the tone of red, and the brand/line of paint
A third coat of color of premium paint would certainly address that issue
For most premium paints anyway...

There are some paints I know will take 4 or 5 coats for reds to look good
And some that might do it in two...even w/o a tinted primer
 
  #3  
Old 08-27-07, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DIYer2006 View Post
Hi all,

I am about to paint a room with a dark tone of red which is primed with a white primer. When I went to the paint shop the girl told that I should first apply a tinted primer or the color might not look like the paint chip when I am done. I though I could just give an extra coat or the red, since I am using a pretty good premium paint, that it should work. She said no, an extra coat of paint would not give me the same result as the tinted prime as base. Is it true? If yes, why?

Thanks,
Alex
Tinted primers are very helpful with deep colors, even ones from premium lines. Red pigment just doesn't cover nearly as well white pigment. Using a properly tinted primer can help cover that up.

Sherwin has a recommended primer tint on the back of their color chips. They have you use a primer tinted grey with a similar reflective value of the finish coat. Using a primer tinted the topcoat color I imagine would give you the same problem of red pigment not covering well. With a grey undercoat, the undercoat would not be nearly as obvious

Oh, and by "Premium" paint, you don't mean Behr, do you? (I hope not.)

It would also be a very good idea to read the sticky on painting red in this forum.

SirWired
 
  #4  
Old 08-27-07, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by sirwired View Post
Tinted primers are very helpful with deep colors, even ones from premium lines. Red pigment just doesn't cover nearly as well white pigment. Using a properly tinted primer can help cover that up.

Sherwin has a recommended primer tint on the back of their color chips. They have you use a primer tinted grey with a similar reflective value of the finish coat. Using a primer tinted the topcoat color I imagine would give you the same problem of red pigment not covering well. With a grey undercoat, the undercoat would not be nearly as obvious

Oh, and by "Premium" paint, you don't mean Behr, do you? (I hope not.)

It would also be a very good idea to read the sticky on painting red in this forum.

SirWired
No, it is C2, a canadian brand. The prime she gave me was of the same color of the top coat and I was REALLY surprised by it. Although it was less dense than I am used to, it did an AWESOME job covering with just one coat. I read about the "gray primer" but she said even that wouldn't match the result of a specific tinted primer.
One thing that got really curious is what is the difference of a primer coating and a paint coating? What the tinted primer would result in a better result than an extra coat of paint?

Thanks for all the anwsers!
 
  #5  
Old 08-27-07, 10:24 AM
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Ah yes, C2 does push the topcoat tinted primer
And yes, it's a little over kill for most applications
For reds....eh...I'd be shocked if three topcoats of C2 wouldn't do it for you
But I can't say for sure, not having done it myself (with deep reds and C2 specifically)
And it could depend on the red, also
All reds are not created equal


The primer's function is to adhere to the substrate, and give the paint something to hold on to
Occasionally it's used to seal, or the help with drastic color changes (which are not usually it's primary functions)

The paint's function is to color and protect, two jobs primer does extremely poorly
 
  #6  
Old 08-27-07, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sirwired View Post

Oh, and by "Premium" paint, you don't mean Behr, do you? (I hope not.)


SirWired
What's your opinion on Behr paints?
I just bought two gallons and I'm getting ready to paint a crimson color on a new sheetrocked wall. After reading this forum I'm wondering if what I'm about to do is going to come out looking bad.

Thanks for any help.
 
  #7  
Old 08-27-07, 04:20 PM
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"What's your opinion on Behr paints?
I just bought two gallons and I'm getting ready to paint a crimson color on a new sheetrocked wall. "

With a gray tinted primer and 5 coats minimum, it will still not look as good as a gray tinted primer and two coats Ben Moore Regal or Sherwin Williams Deep Colors (sometimes called Deep Accents)

That's not an opinion, that's fact

My advice would be to return it immediately
They will take it back
 
  #8  
Old 08-28-07, 05:36 AM
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Very often, when someone posts here with a paint job that didn't turn out well, we find that they used Behr paint. The pros here won't use it. If you haven't opened yours yet, you'll probably be happier if you return it and buy your paint from a paint store instead of a paint department.
 
  #9  
Old 08-28-07, 06:56 AM
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Behr is one of those products where it does indeed "work" for most folks. If that were not the case, they wouldn't sell as much of it as they do. That being said, there are a lot of paints on the market that do a better job, and will do that job more consistently.

With Behr, you run a higher chance of the job not turning out, or more likely, simply spending the next few weekends putting coat after coat of paint on the wall.

There are a LOT of reports on this board of the Behr being too runny (or too thick), the pigment separating from the paint, poor coverage, etc.

As other posters have said, there is a reason that pros don't use Behr, even if it is a little cheaper...

If you have a Behr color you really like, any decent paint store can match it for you, so don't worry about that.

SirWired
 
  #10  
Old 08-28-07, 09:35 AM
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Ok.
So Sherwin Williams is a better choice? What about MAB??
And regardless, I should still use a grey primer for painting a wall red?

One more question, does it matter if it's new sheetrock that's never been painted? Should it be treated a certain way with a certain primer or anything?

Thanks for all your help.
 
  #11  
Old 08-28-07, 10:17 AM
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Sherwin Williams would be a fine choice. I don't know anything about MAB. (There are a LOT of regional brands of paint.)

As far as the primer goes: Simply ask the friendly guy behind the counter (mention the new drywall). Also, on the back of Sherwin color strips for certain colors, you may see a number like "P2". That is the primer tint that Sherwin thinks will give the best results.

One reason I use Sherwin (as opposed to the Ben Moore my local Ace sells) is because Sherwin will sell you a complete Fan Deck for about $12. Using one of those is a heck of a lot easier than picking strips out at the store. Once you decide on a color, they will sell you a quart sample of it for $5 to put on the wall. (A lot cheaper than deciding you don't like a $30 gallon.)

One more thing: If you do go with Sherwin, make sure you sign up for the "Preferred Customer" program. It's free, and gets you a discount off of list. Their paint is more expensive per gallon than Behr, but it will save you time and money in the long run.

SirWired
 
  #12  
Old 08-28-07, 11:42 AM
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Unless I'm mistaken MAB is the oldest paint manufacture in the USA. I've only used their bottom line paint which is junk but so is SWP's bottom grade of paint. Their top of the line coatings are probably ok.

You will want to use a latex primer that is formulated for new drywall - it most likely can be tinted for what you need. As mentioned above, discuss your project with the paint staff and they can help you decide which products will be best for your job.
 
  #13  
Old 08-29-07, 08:20 AM
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MAB is a PA based company that was purchased by SW earlier this year. Odds are they will eventaully be selling the exact same paint as SW. As for fan decks, my experience is that every paint manufacturer makes them available through their retailers. Perhaps the Ace you visited simply decided not to make the BM deck available, however, they are available to anyone on their web site.
 
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