Used Kilz 2 to prime garage ceiling ---->


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Old 08-28-07, 08:12 AM
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Used Kilz 2 to prime garage ceiling ---->

I just used Kilz 2 premium (water based ACRYLIC, not latex) to prime my garage ceiling. Overall it looks good and has an even satin finish. I had some water spots that took 2 coats to cover but seems to look fine. I just read some REALLY bad reviews on this Kilz 2 stuff. Will the water stains leach through? Should I reprime the ceiling? I plan to finish up with 2 coats of latex white ceiling paint (flat finish).

Also, I tried using the Kilz 2 to prime raw wood stairs leading down to the basement, and I am on my 3rd coat and the wood grain is still showing through. Is there a product out there that will work better for this application? (preferrably water based?) THANKS!!!!
 
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Old 08-28-07, 10:22 AM
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Well, your garage ceiling should be okay. If I were you, I'd stick some painters tape up there, leave it for a couple of hours, and see if removing it pulls the primer down. If it holds, you should be fine.

For your wood application: Primer is meant to seal, not to cover. While Kilz2 won't be the first choice of anybody here, three coats of it will probably do just fine. Put a couple of coats of quality finish paint on there and you should do just fine.

Make sure you get that quality finish paint from a paint store, not a paint dept.

SirWired
 
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Old 08-28-07, 10:25 AM
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Thanks for your input, funny you mentioned that "tape test" because I had a wall masked and when I pulled it off the primer along with the sheet rock paper came right off!!!! Hmmmmm...this is starting to scare me. I assume if I put 2 finish coats on the garage ceiling it should be fine even with the kilz primer underneath?????????
 
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Old 08-28-07, 11:25 AM
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Well, if the tape pulled some of the paper off in addition to the wall paint, then your paint is properly adhered to the wall.

Where you have to worry is where the tape pulls off the paint and/or primer and leaves the paper underneath unscathed. That would mean the coating didn't adhere properly.

SirWired
 
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Old 08-28-07, 11:33 AM
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I'd be leary of trusting latex kilz to hold back the water stains - they may come back oil base or pigmented shellac primers are a lot better at sealing stains.

Using masking tape can be troublesome. Often a paint bond on the tape will cause it to pull paint off of the wall. When using tape it is best to not get a lot of paint on the tape AND remove the tape before the paint is good and dry.

Enamel undercoater is the preffered primer for interior woodwork. it is available in both latex and oil. Usually 1 coat of primer is sufficent followed by 2 coats of enamel - sand lightly between coats for better adhesion and a slicker surface.

I absolutely agree with going to a paint store for coatings and advice, both of which will be better than what you find at a typical big box store.
 
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Old 08-28-07, 04:18 PM
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Thanks for the advice. I just put a strip of blue painters tape on the primed ceiling and when I ripped it off the primer bubbbled off in some spots and came off completely in others....ugh. Is this step ruined? Or will it be ok if I top coat the ceiling with 2 coats of high quality latex? (sherwin williams).
 
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Old 08-28-07, 06:38 PM
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Hmmmm....something else that is strange.........although the paint is hard if i touch it it feels sticky and tacky........I painted it over 2 days ago...wierd.
 
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Old 08-28-07, 08:08 PM
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What caused the water spots? Is it corrected? When was it fixed?

If that wall board's not completely dry there'll be adhesion problems with any finish.
 
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Old 08-29-07, 07:13 AM
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Water spots are from 3 yrs ago.....leak in dishwasher install...all fine now....

I contacted Kilz and will see what they say.......
 
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Old 08-29-07, 08:02 AM
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Kilz basically told me that the paint can take up to 14 days to fully cure.....so I need to just let it be till then....and the tackiness should go away.
 
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Old 09-06-07, 06:14 PM
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Update-------------> The Kilz is still tacky after 11 days. In the spot that peeled off where I tested it's adhesion with painterstape, I can keep peeling the scar bigger and bigger if I pull the edges slowly. The product feels gummy like rubber. I am so afraid to top coat it just yet, but the manufacturer is not helping with any advice or concern.
 
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Old 09-06-07, 06:41 PM
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Unfortunately, the latex Kilz product have a high rate of failure in the field

I would feel uncomfortable recommending anything but removing it...if at all possible and/or if it's within reason to do so
 
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Old 09-06-07, 10:49 PM
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I've used some cheaper latex paints before where they felt tacky like that. Eventually it hardens up, and for what its worth, it'll be ok. You're painting your garage remember, not your dining room.
 
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Old 09-07-07, 05:12 AM
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If you are currently experiencing high-humidity weather, all water-base paints will take a long time to dry. The drying specs on the can assume 50% humidity. At 95% humidity, the water in the paint is going to be very slow to evaporate.

SirWired
 
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Old 09-07-07, 06:41 AM
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The humidity is not too bad here and I have been trying to keep the garage door open as long as possible to improve air circulation. I have another email to the manufacturer so I will let you all know what their reply is.

How would I go about removing the paint?

When you say "failure" can you explain what you mean regarding this product????

What would be the worst thing that can happen if I apply a finish coat (latex based sherwin williams) to this tacky primer????

Also this is Kilz 2 PREMIUM.....says acrylic formula on the can....not latex!!!

Thanks!!
 
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Old 09-07-07, 07:15 AM
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---"When you say "failure" can you explain what you mean regarding this product????"

Failure to adhere
Please keep in mind, I'm not trying to be an alarmist, or spread internet rumors
(I can't stand those and debunk the false ones whenever I can)

But the latex Kilz products, regardless of what they say on the can, have a high failure rate
I wouldn't recommend them off-hand
Please keep in mind even a horrible 25% failure rate means 75% adhered
So there's alway a chance it'll hold...and it also means plenty of happy consumers without problems

But I spread a lot more primer than the average DIY consumer
And I can't take a chance, even 5%, that it'll fail
It's my name on the project

As you already applied it, I wouldn't suggest removing it...
Until you posted:

---"I just put a strip of blue painters tape on the primed ceiling and when I ripped it off the primer bubbbled off in some spots and came off completely in others."
---"The Kilz is still tacky after 11 days. In the spot that peeled off where I tested it's adhesion with painterstape, I can keep peeling the scar bigger and bigger if I pull the edges slowly. The product feels gummy like rubber."

My advice is: Run Forrest Run!
Oh wait...sorry...it's y o u r garage
Ok...
Pull/scrape/sand any/all loose badly adhering product off the ceiling
Seal anything remaining with a penetrating problem solving primer (such as Zinsser's Gardz)

If the ceiling needs any repair/skim coating (of joint compound to smooth out paint removal spots) do it now, then sand smooth

Then, if it needs stain sealing, depending on how bad the stains are, I'd use either Original Kilz (oil-based, technically called alkyd which unlike the latex Kilz is actually an excellent product) or Zinsser's Cover Stain (oil/alkyd-based) if it's bad, or Sherwin Williams Prep Rite primer (latex) if it's not too bad

I would probably just prime the whole ceiling (depends on what it looks like at this point), as spot priming may be excessive, the Gardz doesn't cover well color-wise, and the ceiling is probably going to be white anyway

The full coat of primer would (most likely-depends on how well it covered) allow only one topcoat of a premium quality ceiling specific paint to cover (like Ben Moore's Muresco)


---"What would be the worst thing that can happen if I apply a finish coat (latex based sherwin williams) to this tacky primer????"

Total failure, primer and paint...and there's a decent chance of this right now, you've got other red flags going up here
The other thing is the paint won't adhere
And then there's just the paint bubbles up, spiderwebs, crackles, and/or generally looks bad
It could be OK too...
But the project is just not in a good place right now

---"Also this is Kilz 2 PREMIUM.....says acrylic formula on the can....not latex!!!"

Kilz 2 Premium Acrylic is latex
The only Kilz product that isn't is Original Kilz oil/alkyd-based
Which is a great product, but the only one from them that is unfortunately
 
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Old 09-07-07, 10:21 AM
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Thanks for your help. Looks like I am in a bit of a mess right now as my garage ceiling is about 600 square feet. I read the manufacturers warranty and claims on the can and emailed customer service. I don't have the time, talent, or patience to do all the steps you stated. If there is an issue with this product, the manufactuer is going to step up and make it right. I will keep you all informed of their response. The bonding really messes me up because I was going to run adhesive plastic conduit strips along the ceiling to hide some wires and if the paint won't bond there is no chance those strips will stay in tact. Thanks again for all your help.
 
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Old 09-07-07, 12:32 PM
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You have a headache...

Morrow,

Slickshift is super-right on 2 painful points.

First, I agree -- stop where you are, and try to remove the latex debacle. It will be a lot of scraping, swearing, and regrets. While noxious and generally avoided, there is really no substitute for oil-base products in cases like this. You know that old adage 'oil and water don't mix' -- it works on your side in this case.

Second, paint manufacturers are a bit artful in their use of 'latex' and 'acrylic'. Without getting too deep into the polymer morphology, latex and acrylic are both plastics. Latex is a naturally ocurring compound from which you can make acrylic, which is artificial. Likewise, you can start with acrylic derived from petroleum sources and make arificially derived latex. Annoyed yet? I am. The end product is chemically nearly identical. Calling a paint 'acrylic' or 'latex' refers to how it was made moreso than how it will perform. In the future, in your mind, divide paints into these 2 categories only: water-based and not-water-based. If you are trying to 'block water' or the resulting 'stains of water', don't use something that once was -- and can therefore again be -- dissolved in water.
 
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Old 09-08-07, 11:26 AM
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This stuff is the absolute worst and should be outlawed! My entire ceiling is ruined. This stuff is pulling off the ceiling like butter, and I agree I have to remove all of it and start over. I peeled off a 4x4 section and this stuff is now in a tacky, gummy clump the size of a tennis ball. There is adhesion in about 5% of the surface area where it is pulling on the existing paint or wall board, the rest just pulls off. The removal process and then refinishing the surface is going to delay my project for weeks or months or add a ton of cost to hire someone to do this since my garage is so big. KILZ, owned by Masterchem Industries is looking the other way on this one......BIG SURPRISE. Thanks again to everyone that posting in this thread.....I'll update as I progress.
 
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Old 09-11-07, 08:20 AM
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Sorry to hear that...

I'm sorry to hear it's such a mess
To be completely fair, technically non-adhesion could be a prep or contamination issue
It would take on on-site inspection to say for sure
But with this description, I seriously doubt that is the case here

...really, seriously, doubt it...I actually can't see how it could be with a 95% failure...but I suppose it's technically possible so it should be mentioned

Unfortunately, the best way to fix it, is to remove the loosely adhering "primer"
Sorry about that

Good luck and please keep us posted
 
 

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