Problems with Kilz - Help!


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Old 02-05-08, 05:37 PM
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Problems with Kilz - Help!

I am new to this site but need some help. I was given a custom-made toy chest to paint. The chest was made out of MDF and I sealed it with water-based Kilz so that I would have a nice smooth/sealed surface. I started the sealing weeks ago. The first coat was a light one using a paint brush. I finished with nice smooth layer painted with a foam roller. It looked great and I let it cure for a couple of weeks. I'm getting ready to paint it up but it STILL seems slightly sticky. The lid was placed on the top of the chest overnight, and the next morning I was trying to remove it when it felt glued on. When I pulled it off, it tore little small sections on the underside of the lid where it sat on the top edge. I want to start painting this, but I'm worried all my hard work will be for nothing. This only seems to happen when the surfaces touch (Kilz to Kilz). Help!
 
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Old 02-06-08, 05:33 AM
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Welcome to the forums!

That's a tough spot to be in Kilz II isn't the best primer for your job. Short of stripping it all off, I'd sand it the best I could and then apply the first coat of either an oil base or waterborne enamel. When the 1st coat dries, sand and fill any defects, prime as needed and recoat with enamel.

Use of a cheap latex enamel may also stick like your primer has
 
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Old 02-06-08, 11:43 AM
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Smile Many Thanks!

I appreciate your advice, maybe now I won't want to stick my head in the oven (DAMN! It's electric!). But I do have one more question if you don't mind. The outside of the toybox is being painted with artist's gouaches with glazing medium mixed in. There will be lots of layering of the colors. And I think I'll be good for the outside of the box. My question is what is your recommendation for a good protective paint for the inside of the box and the inside of the lid? Since the inside will get beat up pretty bad from toys getting thrown in, etc., what do you recommend? I had planned on using Behr Premium Plus Interior Satin Enamel. What'cha think? Thanks!
 
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Old 02-06-08, 03:50 PM
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I'd stay away from Behr - it's no better than the primer.
Use waterborne or oil base enamel on the inside. It will dry hard and isn't easily marred.
A real paint store sells better coatings than what you will find at a big box.
 
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Old 02-07-08, 08:32 AM
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For something like a toolbox, I am going to go out on a limb and suggest an oil-base enamel. While the Waterbourne Acrylic enamels are fantastic products for trim, I don't know that they are so sturdy to withstand the ferocious assault of a child...

In any case, SW has their ProClassic line, and BM has Impervo... both are available in oil and waterbase, and both are excellent products.

One warning though: In addition to the added cleanup requirements of oil-base finishes, they do have a tendency to yellow if not exposed to sunlight.

SirWired
 
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Old 02-07-08, 10:52 AM
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I'm not surprised you are running into this issue

A latex primer was really a poor choice for primer for this project
It can have issues with MDF, including difficult drying and curing times, and bubbling issues
The water in the base (latex paint/primer) can react with the "glue" that molds the "sawdust mush" of MDF together
A solvent-based primer (oil/alkyd) would have been a better choice

Kilz2 (latex Kilz) is also a poor product, with other issues (high failure rate)
But I'm not surprised it's sticking and either not fully cured or simply sticking to itself (plasticizer transfer)

As it seems to have held w/o bubbling, I'd suggest trying to coat it as is (removal would probably destroy the MDF at this point)

I would also strongly suggest an enamel
The oil-based ones generally have an edge to durability over the waterborne ones, but you'll want to check with the "artist's gouaches" and "glazing medium" instructions to see if there is a water-based/oil-based base coat preference or requirement

Let the base coat (oil or waterborne) cure as long as possible before closing the lid

I can also recommend purchasing you products at your local Paint Store, rather than a bigbox
You will nearly always get better products and advise from your local paint shop
 
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Old 02-10-08, 12:21 PM
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Smile Many Thanks again!

I really appreciate all the advice. This is my first project that I've painted that was made out of MDF. I was a professional decorative furniture painter in a previous life (now semi-retired) but all of my pieces started as unfinished "real" wood. I would usually start out sealing it with a water-based sealer product made for decorative painting or mixed it in with my base coat artist color and it would work great. I didn't even think that there could be any chemical reation of the Kilz with the wood compound that makes MDF. I guess I'm pretty lucky so far. The outside of the box seems perfect with no peeling and/or bubbling. The surface feels hard and I think I'm just about ready to start with the gouaches. Thanks for the info for the inside of the box. It will get some real punishment. My niece is only two years old and a real princess, but man oh man she's got quite a right arm on her. She can toss her toys with some major force, so I really want to harden up the surface inside the box. Thanks so much guys!
P.S. The DIY shows on HGTV (i.e., Room by Room, and Design on a Dime, etc.) show them making all kinds of things out of MDF and then sealing them with a Kilz-type product. This is where I got the idea. So shame on HGTV.
 
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Old 02-10-08, 01:43 PM
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Most of us pros shudder when we see some of things they do on TV.
 
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Old 02-10-08, 03:21 PM
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I guess you've never heard or read about things after the TV crews have gone. There's some real disaster stories out there.

Work isn't finished (despite what you see on TV), projects that fall apart several months later, etc.
 
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Old 02-10-08, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Fauxfan
...
P.S. The DIY shows on HGTV (i.e., Room by Room, and Design on a Dime, etc.) show them making all kinds of things out of MDF and then sealing them with a Kilz-type product. This is where I got the idea. So shame on HGTV.
Lol...well, remember, those shows are for entertainment purposes....
Originally Posted by marksr
Most of us pros shudder when we see some of things they do on TV.
Yup....it's crazy sometimes
Unbelievable
Originally Posted by BobF
I guess you've never heard or read about things after the TV crews have gone. There's some real disaster stories out there.

Work isn't finished (despite what you see on TV), projects that fall apart several months later, etc.
Yes...it's just what looks good on TV...makes a good show...
Doesn't matter much what happens when the cameras stop rolling
 
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Old 02-14-08, 09:01 PM
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I always wondered what happened after the TV crews shut up shop and leave all those poor folks with their newly primed and painted kitchen cupboards. I never could quite figure out how they could accomplish this feat in just one day and usaully with a team of just two or three professionals! Painting is just something that can't be rushed. But the shows are fun to watch and are great for some inspiration and new ideas. Maybe they should come with disclaimers like the car commercials, "These are trained professionals, do not try this at home!"

Originally Posted by slickshift View Post
Lol...well, remember, those shows are for entertainment purposes....

Yup....it's crazy sometimes
Unbelievable

Yes...it's just what looks good on TV...makes a good show...
Doesn't matter much what happens when the cameras stop rolling
 
 

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