oil paint/which primer so i can use latex over?


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Old 03-24-08, 10:40 AM
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oil paint/which primer so i can use latex over?

Hi guys - i've been gone too long! i've forgotten everything!

okay - current woodwork has oil paint (did the "denatured alcohol on Qtip test" & nothing budged!). so for repainting it, what are my options? i can use oil paint again and just go right on top of the existing oil paint, right? maybe scuff sand first?

but what if i want to now use latex over the oil? i know i'd have to prime first, but what kind of primer? oil or latex? if i have to use oil primer, then i might as well just use oil paint and save a step, right?

thanks!!!
 

Last edited by Annette; 03-24-08 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 03-24-08, 04:52 PM
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Hi Annette,

It is always best to scuff sand before repainting

If you want to stick with oil, just scuff sand, wipe clean and paint away. If you want to switch to latex, you need to first use a solvent based [oil or shellac] primer.

I've been told that you can sand oil enamel and then apply waterborne enamel with no problems. I don't know that I totally buy that, I'd have more confidence using a solvent primer first. That said, I did cheat, and just sand and wipe with deglosser the 3 windows in my office and painted them with SWP's proclassic waterborne. That was about 4 yrs ago and they have held up fine.
 
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Old 03-24-08, 05:48 PM
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I would go ahead and use oil semi gloss paint right over the existing oil. That would be the easy way.

I sand then use Sherwin Williams Latex Bonding Primer and apply one or two finish coats of semi gloss Superpaint by SW. I have had no call backs with this method. Remember though that oil paint can never be used again when you switch over to latex like this.

You need to wait 24 hours after applying the bonding primer. This primer works on glass.
 
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Old 03-25-08, 07:07 AM
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i'd really like to NOT use oil paint OR oil primer. so you're saying i can sand, then use a latex primer and then latex paint? that sounds good, because afterward, i have to paint the walls and i'm using latex for that, so i really don't want to have to worry about getting the oil paint on the walls and creating problems there. plus the clean up issues with oil is just too daunting. painting is bad enough when you can clean up with just water!

is bonding primer the same as just "primer"? or do i need to specifically get BONDING primer?

and is latex okay for woodwork or do i need ENAMEL?

thanks guys!
 
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Old 03-25-08, 08:43 AM
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Enamel comes in 3 basic types; latex, oil base and waterborne. There are also 3 basic types of interior paint. Flat paint is often used on walls but should never be used on woodwork. There are 2 types of enamel, 1 is suitable for walls but not woodwork. Trim enamel is a little more expensive than wall enamel [and can be used for both]

I'm old school and would use an oil primer [or shellac] if converting oil base trim to latex. There are some specific latex primers that claim to adhere well to slick surfaces. Not all latex primers are suitable for use over oil enamel.

A little bit of oil enamel under latex rarely poses a problem.
 
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Old 03-25-08, 09:37 AM
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Some of my trim has a bonding primer (SW Latex PrepRite ProBlock) on oil trim with a Waterbourne ProClassic topcoat, and it is holding just fine. No chips, no peels, no problems. I can try and pick at it with my fingernail all day long; it's not going anywhere.

The spec sheet for ProBlock latex specifically states it will work on varnished or lacquered surfaces or gloss paints, so I think you should be okay.

Would this work if you slathered on some Kilz2? No, probably not. The ProBlock is designed for this sort of use, your "average" water-base primer may not be.

SirWired
 
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Old 03-25-08, 09:47 AM
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wow........i'm still confused.

do i or do i not need to prime first before using a non-oil-based paint? and what non-oil-based primer would i need? the "bonding" primer?

what kind of paint do i need to use for my woodwork? latex? latex enamel? waterborn enamel?

i can't see any advantage in having to deal with an oil primer in order to get to use a latex paint. i'm trying to completely avoid having to deal with oil anything. i just had all our hardwood floors refinished & i don't want to get anything on them that i can't easily clean up. plus i just never want to have to deal with turpentine or whatevertheheck you clean up oil paint with. :P

but i don't want to spend days painting all this and end up with painted woodwork that peels off like a rubber glove either!
 
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Old 03-25-08, 12:13 PM
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Where do you intend to buy your paint/primer?

There are 2 types of latex enamel. 1 is for walls only, the other can be used for both. All enamels come in 3 basic sheens - satin, semi-gloss and gloss. The amount of sheen may vary between brands. Some also offer eggshell and low lustre which are similiar to satin.

If not using oil base you will want to either use a trim latex enamel [not wall enamel] or waterborne. Personally I think SWP's proclassic waterborne enamel is about as good as you can get.

Even if you use oil base [primer or enamel] a damp thinner rag will remove any errant paint providing you get it up before it dries.
 
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Old 03-25-08, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Annette View Post
wow........i'm still confused.

do i or do i not need to prime first before using a non-oil-based paint? and what non-oil-based primer would i need? the "bonding" primer?

what kind of paint do i need to use for my woodwork? latex? latex enamel? waterborn enamel?

i can't see any advantage in having to deal with an oil primer in order to get to use a latex paint. i'm trying to completely avoid having to deal with oil anything. i just had all our hardwood floors refinished & i don't want to get anything on them that i can't easily clean up. plus i just never want to have to deal with turpentine or whatevertheheck you clean up oil paint with. :P

but i don't want to spend days painting all this and end up with painted woodwork that peels off like a rubber glove either!
I absolutely would prime if I were in your place. You maybe could "get away" with not priming, but all the spec sheets require it, and you do not want to deal with the paint peeling off down the road. Use a bonding primer water-base or an oil base primer.

You certainly can use wall paint on trim. It is certainly easier to apply than Waterbourne enamel. However, the Waterbourne enamel will look more like an oil paint, and behave that way. Wall paint has the annoying tendency to "block" which means that if left in contact with anything, it sticks. This is a big problem with windows and shelving. (NOTE: Behr Premium Enamel is not what we are referring to as an enamel. When we refer to "Waterbourne Enamel" we are generally referring to Sherwin Williams ProClassic or Benjamin Moore Impervo.)

What you need to do is go to your local paint store, (not BigBoxCo), tell them what you have and what you want to do. They should sell you the products you need. In the case of Sherwin Williams, this would likely be PrepRite ProBlock Latex primer, and Waterbourne ProClassic Enamel. I don't know what primer Ben Moore would sell you, but they would likely pair it with Waterbourne Impervo.

If you do choose a Waterbourne enamel, please search for "ProClassic" on this board for my advice on applying it.

SirWired
 
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Old 03-25-08, 06:06 PM
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Sherwin Williams has a special primer that is labeled "Bonding Primer" It is latex and designed for glossy paints like oil finishes. It also will adhere well to glass or mirror. The Pro Block latex from Sherwin Williams should work as well. If little traffic both should work as well.
 
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Old 03-26-08, 11:09 AM
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okay, i'm sold! i'm headed to SW after work! i guess i've saved enough money over the years buying $9-a-gallon wall paint, that now i can shell out a little (lot?) more for the good primer & good trim paint. the trim in our house takes a beating, so i want to do this as "right" as i can without actually using oil-based stuff!

thanks to you all for explaining & REexplaining everything to me!
 
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Old 03-26-08, 11:51 AM
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i did as SIRWIRED suggested & searched "ProClassic" for past posts on application tips, and now i'm wondering about using a roller of some sort on large amount of wainscot paneling i'll be doing. i think i have to use a brush on the crown moulding and the door trim, but the paneling might be a good place to use a roller. thoughts? and by roller, do you all mean those little weenie rollers that are almost spongey instead of nappy?
 
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Old 03-26-08, 12:13 PM
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I've never used a roller with waterborne enamel so I don't know if it rolls any different than regular latex enamel.

The type and size of roller to use is basically determined by what you are rolling. the benifits of a 9" roller is it covers more ground The small 'mini' rollers don't hold as much paint but are better for getting into areas that a 9" roller will skip over. They often also do a good job of getting into corners - less cut in.

IMO it is best to "tip out' rolled enamel on woodwork. This helps to eliminate any roller stipple.
tip out - gently take the tip of the brush and brush over the rolled on paint
 
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Old 03-26-08, 05:40 PM
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The roller on wainscot and other woodwork is the best way to go. But I would back brush right away. Roller in one hand a brush in the other. Bestt Liebco has wonderful rollers for this sort of work. SW should have something equal.

I stopped using Pro Classic in favor of SW Superpaint semi gloss. The application of Pro classic was more difficult then Superpaint and I found Pro classic failing on me. Like on window sashes and hand railings. On doors and trim I have great success with Superpaint. Much more user friendly. Less failure.

Pro classic a tad harder finish though. Better leveling properties. I think there is too much acrylic in that paint.
 
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Old 03-27-08, 06:37 AM
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well, i went and bought the SW bonding primer, some ProClassic paint, and a roller ($$$yikes!!)! i'll try to remember to post back & let you all know how this comes out! wish me luck! and thanks again!
 
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Old 03-27-08, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Annette View Post
well, i went and bought the SW bonding primer, some ProClassic paint, and a roller ($$$yikes!!)! i'll try to remember to post back & let you all know how this comes out! wish me luck! and thanks again!
OH YES Annette, the brush and rollers are called sundries and they are really marked up high. They could take 50% off the retail and still be happy.
 
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Old 03-31-08, 09:11 AM
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thinner?

well, after 18 hours, i got a coat of primer & one coat of paint on everything this weekend. (whew! ) but i noticed the ProClassic becoming pretty goopy. i was having to lay it on pretty thick just to apply it smoothly and then of course, it would run & sag from being too thick. i think for my next room, i'll need to use some of that Flow-trol stuff....or latex extender? or water maybe? which is better?

i will say, once it dried, that ProClassic leveled out just like an OIL - wow!!!
 
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Old 03-31-08, 03:25 PM
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Yeah, that ProClassic is tricky stuff.

The trick to applying it is to apply with one stroke of the brush, smooth with another, and just move on. If you go back to touch up, even a two or three minutes later, the paint has already tacked, which causes another layer to glop on there, and sag as it dries.

The brush marks will level themselves out, and the "thin spots" actually get more opaque as the finish dries.

If applied correctly, this is pretty cool stuff; but it is not as easy as wall paint.

SirWired
 
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Old 03-31-08, 05:01 PM
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Mix a small amount of water into the enamel, it will help it brush better and shoudn't hurt anything.
 
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Old 03-31-08, 05:42 PM
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Water is best. That paint is very heavy and runs I now remember being a problem. Do not apply too thick. But you know that now Annette.
 
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Old 04-01-08, 12:45 PM
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thanks! i'll try that in a few weeks when i move on to the next room!
 
 

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