Every roller mark shows: Behr Ultra Satin

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Old 08-08-09, 04:16 PM
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Every roller mark shows: Behr Ultra Satin

We're no strangers to interior painting but new to Behr Ultra Satin. We got it because it's a blend of primer and paint. The rest of our house is Behr so expected this to have the same high results on our new drywall.

However, every roller stroke shows. We expected to do two coats but after two coats it looks like we'll need two more. The cutting in along the edges looks completely amateurish and a completely different texture. We've never had results like this.

We started with regular 1/2 inch nap rollers. Changed shortly after to 3/4 inch rollers. Then to 3/4 inch lambs wool rollers and the results are the same.

I've looked on the Internet and haven't seen any complaints. We asked the drywaller if this paint/primer mixture would be OK and he said it would. Any clues? We checked with a professional painter who is also a drywaller and he's the one who suggested the lambs wool roller. Anyone see anything we're missing or doing wrong?
 
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Old 08-08-09, 05:07 PM
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Welcome to the forums Rosemary!

It sounds like it might be the paint unless you have a really bad rolling technique. I almost always use a lambs wool roller cover although I would probably have used a 1/2" nap unless the wall has a heavy texture. If you have slick finish walls - the 3/4" could leave a texture difference between cut in and rolled. One way to minimize this would be to turn your roller sideways and roll closer to the cut in at the ceiling.

IMO paint/primer all in one is more gimmick than anything else. New drywall should have a primer applied and then 1-2 coats of the appropriate finish paint.

If you run your fingers across the wall - can you feel the ridges? if so they may need to be sanded down.

I'd suggest finishing with a better grade of paint.... and maybe a 1/2" roller nap.
 
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Old 08-08-09, 05:07 PM
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Those are awfully thick rollers for the purpose.Usually those thicknesses are used for a surface with a texture.

3/8 would commonly be used by consumers.The 3/4 is especially too thick.

I don't trust a paint that is also suppose to prime.It can't turn out like those steps in two seperate coats.When a product like this is produced to big box specs,to meet a price not a quality target,I'm dubious.
 
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Old 08-09-09, 03:34 AM
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In my experience, roller marks are a result of excess paint on the roller (either too much pressure and squeezes out or full roller). Either way, not enough rolling with light pressure to evenly distribute the paint.

You then stated that you started with 1/2" nap and then went to 3/4" nap. I think is is the problem. You may have used 1/2" nap successfully in the past with just paint, and if so you were probably lucky or just on the edge of success. Possibly the paint/primer combo has enough of a viscosity difference (or some other property difference) that it pushed you off the edge of success to roller marks.

I recommend 3/8 or even 1/4 nap for walls.
 
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Old 08-09-09, 07:56 AM
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I'm not a professional painter but I have questions about a product which claims to be paint and primer in one. Paint and primer have different jobs and I cannot figure out why someone would put them in the same container, it seems to me neither would be able to do its job effectively that way.

Your technique seems not to be the issue, since you have had good results previously. You did, however, use a different product this time, so my first thought goes to the paint as the problem.
 
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Old 08-09-09, 08:47 AM
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We've come around to your way of thinking. It's supposed to work in one coat. At nearly $40 a gallon, this is an expensive experiment. At Home Depot, where we bought it, we've been told that we're the only ones they know of who are adding this over new drywall, so this is a new equation for them. Everyone else is adding over old paint. We're going to use drywall primer on the other walls first. Unfortunately, we've already mixed up all the other paint and can't return it. I think our drywall installer mispoke. This is such a new product I wonder if he really did have any real experience with it.
 
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Old 08-09-09, 09:05 AM
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I think we're in agreement on a lot of things. I now realize and what we got sucked into is combining what should have been two steps into one step. That's a stupid consumer mistake.

The painter who looked at the rest of the house recognized that we do quality work already, so we're not, certainly professional painters but we're not your average consumer painters. The walls are textured, which is why, he suggest the thicker lambwool, but I don't think he knows the product. And you may be right about it being too thick. We will try going back to the thinner roller. It's a thicker product than regular paint.

There was logic behind it all, but it's coming down, I think to the new drywall and to the product. I think we're asking too much of the product. Thanks for your advice.
 
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Old 08-09-09, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by marksr View Post
If you have slick finish walls - the 3/4" could leave a texture difference between cut in and rolled. Onller sideways and roll closer to the cut in at the ceiling.

IMO paint/primer all in one is more gimmick than anything else. New drywall should have a primer applied and then 1-2 coats of the appropriate finish paint.

If you run your fingers across the wall - can you feel the ridges? if so they may need to be sanded down.

I'd suggest finishing with a better grade of paint.... and maybe a 1/2" roller nap.
Thank you for the welcome.

We're not feeling ridges. It's just the appearance of the roller and the appearance of a texture at the cut-in. We're in the process of adding a third coat on the ceilings with a 1/2 inch lambswool. It's as if the product is soaking in and not spreading. I agree with you that it's a primer issue.

One thing I'm confused about is that you're saying to use a better product. Isn't Behr a quality product? We were going by Consumer Reports.
 
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Old 08-09-09, 09:31 AM
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Consumer Reports is not the ultimate source for paint information.they tend to balance cost with quality and ease of application with durability which isn't always what people really want or need.

They test products under a laboratory situation with specific application techniques that don't always mirror real world non-pro application.

there is an ultimate reality concerning big box retail and the products they sell especially under a brand name they control or own.(This also applies to national name brands such as Glidden and Scott's).

These companies have the strength of volume and advertising available to them to dictate to manufacturers how to make a product to suit them.The outcome is products,sometimes under national name brands,manufactured to a price point first and a quality level second.These companies are more concerned with underselling competition than the product under performing competition.

All national paint brands have multiple levels of quality,sometimes with similar sounding names.That said those same brands have some excellent products in their midrange to high range priced lines.Ultimately you do get what you pay for.Paint is a mix of chemicals and pigments and more money means more and better ingredients.

Finally there's tools and so forth.Never go cheap with your brushes and rollers as this will make the best paint look bad.Buy you paint at a location that has sales help that is knowledgeable and motivated to serve your needs.
 
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Old 08-09-09, 10:01 AM
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I don't have a lot of experience with Behr. As a painting contractor [now retired] I know I can consistently get better paint and service at my local paint store as opposed to a big box paint dept. If you got good results with Behr on the rest of the house, then that line of Behr paint should do ok over what your working on now. If the rest of the house is flat latex and this area needs to be satin, their satin enamel may not behave like their flat paint does. If you need to switch brands, most any paint store [not dept] can match a competitor's color. SWP, BM, Pittsburg, Glidden, just to name a few all have good coatings - as mentioned above, be sure to use mid line or better as they also have cheap lines that aren't fit to use IMO.

Since the roller marks are only visable, another coat of quality paint applied correctly should cover them up. Like Mitch said, if all your other painting looked good - suspect the paint.

The primer manufacture's have done a good job of selling people on using primer. The truth is most interior repaints don't need a primer. Ben Moore has a new line of paint called Aura. I've not used it but they claim it's 1 coat [no primer] over raw drywall. I've heard from some other painters that BM has backed up and now recomends a primer for use over new drywall.
 
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Old 08-09-09, 10:50 AM
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It is true you often do not need a primer but it has to also be said that you will not "hurt" anything by priming.Yes you add a cost and effort element however if in doubt....prime.Some situations aren't exactly clear on whether you need to prime or not and some situations might not actually need primer but would either turn out better or be more durable if you did prime versus not...in those situations prime.

Also don't confuse a big box paint department's performance with a independent hardware store's paint department performance.Obviously every store will have it's own service level but I've worked in Ace Stores which also carried Pratt & Lambert.In both cases there were regular seminars and training given both specific to product and paint in general and I'd stack up the people I've worked with against any paint store personel.
 
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Old 08-09-09, 01:17 PM
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I see what ya'll are saying about Consumer Reports and Behr. We have had good results in the rest of the house with the same sheen, but, of course this is a new product. I'm betting Behr backs up and clarifies that this product shouldn't be used on new drywall like Aura.

We almost went with Aura on the new drywall and were given conflicting advice: first yes on the new drywall and then no. That's why we went with the Behr Ultra that gave us a firm yes.

I should somehow get ahold of Behr and let them know. But I can't find a contact email. i'll keep looking.

The pro painter who looked at our results is a Sherwin Williams guy himself. He didn't denigrate Behr to us, he just stated a preference, so I'm glad you spoke up. I think we'll stay away from the big box stores in the future.

Thank you all for all the help. We kinda hate to paint.
 
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