Priming and painting over non-adhering Behr Premium Plus Ultra paint with primer

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Old 08-27-09, 06:23 AM
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Priming and painting over non-adhering Behr Premium Plus Ultra paint with primer

I have recently painted over satin sheen latex without priming first. I purchased Behr Premium Plus Ultra which I was told would eliminate the priming step due to the paint already having primer in it. Much to my husbands disappointment, I took the Home Depot paint associate's advice over his. The walls were wiped down with mild detergent and allowed to dry for a couple days. The first coat of paint was applied on a rainy 60 degree day. The second coat was applied 24 hours later on a 70 degree sunny day. When removing the tape we noticed the paint was peeling off with it. We allowed walls to dry for another 3 days and we are still able to peel away large pieces of the paint and if anything rubs against the painted wall the paint comes off. I have since had a professional painter over to quote repainting the room. He plans to feather sand the loose areas, fill, prime and paint. He says he cannot guarantee that the paint won't do the same thing if nicked. My husband and I spent 2 hours last night scraping and peeling away paint on a quarter of one wall. You can literally peel away large pieces in some places. My question is, are we wasting our money by having this primed and painted over? Is the best correction to spend countless hours scrapping and peeling away the paint? Is there an easier way to remove the paint? The thought of spending weeks scrapping away the paint is overwhelming me. Any advice will really be appreciated.
 
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Old 08-27-09, 08:28 AM
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I would get off all you possibly can to eliminate the problem existing under new paint,your painter is right it well may keep doing this unless you get it all off.

Even with Behr's less than stellar reviews here,I'm really surprised at your situation.Satin shouldn't have had that level of adhesion trouble.Are you certain you didn't leave a residue from cleaning the walls?

There really isn't an easier way to do the job.you'll have to scrape and/or sand to get it off.

If it was me I'd be talking to HD's customer service about this as this qualifies as paint failure.
 
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Old 08-27-09, 11:56 AM
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I've since visited a quality local paint store and was told that this could happen with any latex paint that had not cured for two weeks or when the tape was not pulled when the paint was still wet. Their recommendation was to let the paint cure for two weeks clean up the area we scraped with Goof Off, use a deglosser on that area that now has the original satin sheen showing and paint again with latex. They also said after two weeks to scrape away anything that appears loose. I was surprised that they said there was no need to prime. I have been in contact with both Behr and Home Depot, who both have been willing to help with the cost of replacement paint, which is better than nothing I guess.
 
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Old 08-27-09, 04:01 PM
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Leftover cleaning residue is a possiblity - if that's the cause, as much as possible of that paint should be removed.

More than likely the tape is the culprit. When you paint the wall and get paint on the tape there is a bond created between the wall paint and the paint on the tape. It is best to remove tape while the paint is still wet or better yet limit the use of tape! If the paint has dried it's best to take a u tility knive and cut the 'bond' where the wall meets tape. The fact that latex paint takes weeks to fully cure justs added to the problem.

The painter is mainly covering his butt since it can't be determined exactly what caused the problem. Generally priming isn't necessarry when recoating walls. I don't have much experience with behr coatings but I know the SWP coatings I use would not have any issues with repainting flat over latex satin enamel. The same can be said about most quality paints.
 
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Old 08-27-09, 06:00 PM
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I have to say that I disagree with the paint guy you talked to.The paint should not be peeling off in large sections like yours did.Yes it needs time to cure but it still shouldn't be having that level of adhesion issues and I believe something else is involved.

I also don't understand the recommendation of using Goof Off on the walls.This is a latex paint remover.I don't think you'd need to use it AND deglosser as they would both do similar things for you,soften paint so the next coat would bond.
 
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Old 08-28-09, 05:09 PM
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We've decided to give the manufacturer's recommendation of allowing the paint to cure for 2 weeks a try. After that we should have a leg to stand on if the paint still doesn't stick to the wall. My husband used the deglosser on the secion of wall that we scraped and peeled paint from and then put a 1st coat of paint on. Tomorrow he'll apply the second coat so hopefully we can test that at the 2 week mark as well. So for now we wait.....
 
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Old 09-08-09, 12:59 PM
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We've waited the two weeks to assure a full cure. My husband thought we were good to go based on his test on an electrical outlet that he tried to peel paint from and was unsuccessful. I spent four hours re-cutting and touching up. We moved our daughter back in just after the two weeks was up. First night in she nicked the wall in three spots trying to plug in her cell phone charger and going to click on a switch to turn her bedside lamp on. The paint peeled right off the wall. Today I'll be working on paperwork to submit to Behr along with the many pictures I've taken along the way. I've lost more sleep over this project and the thought of emptying the room again to scrape and repaint is almost beyond imagining!
 
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Old 09-09-09, 12:36 AM
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This isn't surprising at all....

Sorry for all you're goin' thru guys!!!

1) The existing Satin-sheen wall should've been scuff-sanded.
This is the BEST way to promote adhesion, and doesn't take long.
2) Then, the walls should've been washed with a POWDERED cleaner like Dirtex. Normally, you don't even have to rinse Dirtex!
I strongly recommend this at our store...it's THAT important.

>>> What EXACT cleaner did you use??
If it was a TSP, this needs to be rinsed very well...literally 2 or 3 times.

Taping:
* I PURPOSELY leave tape on 'till the next day!
* Then I slice the tape-edge boundary with a snap-knife.
* Laser-straight cut-off line results.

Reason?
* The paint-to-primer bonding can take TWO WEEKS! It's a slow process.
* The paint film itself is considered cured in about 30 days for light washing.
* Bottom line....the "skinning-bond" of the paint to the tape is stronger than the bonding to a wall primer for DAYS afterward.
* Sooooo...wait till the next day, slice the tape-edge, and you're done!
Peeling chances due to tape damage = ZERO.

Faron
 
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Old 10-06-09, 12:23 PM
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Behr Premium Ultra Plus problem

I have similiar issues. I applied Miller PVA Drywall primer over joint compound that was used to make repairs/patches. PVA primer was allowed to dry overnight, then I applied a couple cans of spray texture (fast dry oil). I waited six hours and reapplied PVA primer. This was allowed to dry overnight before applying Behr Premium Ultra Plus SemiGloss paint. After two weeks the paint is still soft, hand prints lift paint off revealing tiny white holes. Blue/Green tape used after two weeks will still pull up the paint.

Did you have to resort to steaming or stripping the paint off and starting all over? I have yet to go give Home Depot folks an earful. Custom mix color was about $30 a gallon. I suppose I might get the paint cost back but doubtful they will help with the clean up mess.

Let us know how this worked out for you. Thanks
 
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Old 10-09-09, 10:24 PM
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A lot of issues here.

First, the self priming paints are not always self priming over glossy surfaces. Check the label. I am not familiar with the Behr paint.

Latex paints can take longer than two weeks to cure. I would give it a month or two before passing judgment on the adhesion. Dark colors with lots of tint will take longer to cure than a white or off white.

Latex paints are known to be subject to scarring while the paint film is still fresh and not totally cured. Even latex primers that develop super adhesion are subject to that problem.

Always remove masking tape while the paint is still wet, before it forms a film. You are asking for trouble if you don't pay attention to this detail.

If you want to know if the paint is adhering, you will need to do a cross cut tape test -after allowing adequate cure time. A cross cut test is essentially cutting a "tick tack toe" cross hatch into the paint film with a razor knife. Rub down a piece of regular manila masking tape down over the cross cut, then pull the tape off. The paint should remain intact if the adhesion is good.

Right now, I don't see anything with your situation that is not consistent with a paint job that is not fully cured. Give the paint more time to cure. The fact that the paint is harder to scratch off now (as per your testing and probing) would indicate that the paint is in fact developing adhesion as time passes. (albeit, even though the paint is not fully adhering as it will -ultimately).
 

Last edited by Slatz; 10-09-09 at 10:44 PM.
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