Sherwin Williams Paint Issue - Ragging in a Bathroom
#1
05-02-10, 03:57 PM
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Sherwin Williams Paint Issue - Ragging in a Bathroom
The following is a copy of an email to Sherwin Williams.
I am a long time user of Sherwin Williams paints.
I am away for long periods working on engineering projects across the country. In between, comes the occasional home project.
About 2 years ago I redid a bathroom. My wife wanted to try a ragging finish on the walls.
The application was as follows:
Base - Super Paint Interior Satin Latex Extra White tinted to 6343 aluring white
Top - Illusions Latex Based Faux Finish Glazing Liquid Clear 6403-59444 A46 T 116 and Super Paint Interior Satin Latex Extra White tinted to 6126 Blonde mixed per Sherwin Williams instruction
Over new primed surface (sheetrock [skim coated after wall paper removal]) Kilz Premium interior/exterior waterbase Primer Sealer Stainblocker.
[No problems were apparent with the primer or the base coat.]
Application: Primer/Base rolled, Top ragged.
We were pleased with the final appearance.
We noticed the appearance of watermarks from condensation (shower). Initially (over the first year) they were thought to be just watermarks that would wipe off. However, now (2 years - back home from another project) it is apparent that the marks and drips/trails are actually the paint finish (Top) running along with the condensation. Color can actually be removed if the drops are blotted or wiped. The walls are streaked with drips of the Top color/glaze [clear glaze droplets can also be seen and wiped from the wall]. Obviously there is an issue with this product/mixture.
Presently I am up to the point of painting for another bathroom remodel. A similar finish was planned (same primer over new [green] sheetrock) but on hold pending some resolution on the paint issues.
The original bathroom will require repainting. But what needs to be done considering the current finish is unstable, and how can the same type finish be applied successfully. More importantly what is Sherwin Williams going to do to resolve and makeup for this problem? I never know how much time I will have between work projects and travel so I do not look forward to redoing work.
Please reply as I have one home project on hold and the repair/redo of the other pending.
Store 2075 (supplier) requested that we bring in the old paint and they would do something to make it right. We will do this, however, this still will leave repainting the original bathroom to be addressed.
------------------------------------------------------------
Although two appointments were set up for inspection through the regional SW office and local store, both were no show. All paint containers were returned for "analysis" which was esentially a check of batch codes and SW declaration of no batch problems.
Need help.
1. What to try in the second bathroom? Kilz primer over new green sheetrock (yes it will peel if masked over - but may have been influenced by grout/moisture). Would ragging be recommended again with same SW products? (local store does not recommend).
2. What to do for the first bathroom? How to remove or stabilize paint? Local SW store recommends trying to dry out the bathroom (no showers, heat for a few days) thinking that sufficient time (48 hrs) was not provided to allow paint to dry after application (I don't agree), but will probably try the drying. And what to refinish with (if ragging is desired again)?
I am a long time user of Sherwin Williams paints.
I am away for long periods working on engineering projects across the country. In between, comes the occasional home project.
About 2 years ago I redid a bathroom. My wife wanted to try a ragging finish on the walls.
The application was as follows:
Base - Super Paint Interior Satin Latex Extra White tinted to 6343 aluring white
Top - Illusions Latex Based Faux Finish Glazing Liquid Clear 6403-59444 A46 T 116 and Super Paint Interior Satin Latex Extra White tinted to 6126 Blonde mixed per Sherwin Williams instruction
Over new primed surface (sheetrock [skim coated after wall paper removal]) Kilz Premium interior/exterior waterbase Primer Sealer Stainblocker.
[No problems were apparent with the primer or the base coat.]
Application: Primer/Base rolled, Top ragged.
We were pleased with the final appearance.
We noticed the appearance of watermarks from condensation (shower). Initially (over the first year) they were thought to be just watermarks that would wipe off. However, now (2 years - back home from another project) it is apparent that the marks and drips/trails are actually the paint finish (Top) running along with the condensation. Color can actually be removed if the drops are blotted or wiped. The walls are streaked with drips of the Top color/glaze [clear glaze droplets can also be seen and wiped from the wall]. Obviously there is an issue with this product/mixture.
Presently I am up to the point of painting for another bathroom remodel. A similar finish was planned (same primer over new [green] sheetrock) but on hold pending some resolution on the paint issues.
The original bathroom will require repainting. But what needs to be done considering the current finish is unstable, and how can the same type finish be applied successfully. More importantly what is Sherwin Williams going to do to resolve and makeup for this problem? I never know how much time I will have between work projects and travel so I do not look forward to redoing work.
Please reply as I have one home project on hold and the repair/redo of the other pending.
Store 2075 (supplier) requested that we bring in the old paint and they would do something to make it right. We will do this, however, this still will leave repainting the original bathroom to be addressed.
------------------------------------------------------------
Although two appointments were set up for inspection through the regional SW office and local store, both were no show. All paint containers were returned for "analysis" which was esentially a check of batch codes and SW declaration of no batch problems.
Need help.
1. What to try in the second bathroom? Kilz primer over new green sheetrock (yes it will peel if masked over - but may have been influenced by grout/moisture). Would ragging be recommended again with same SW products? (local store does not recommend).
2. What to do for the first bathroom? How to remove or stabilize paint? Local SW store recommends trying to dry out the bathroom (no showers, heat for a few days) thinking that sufficient time (48 hrs) was not provided to allow paint to dry after application (I don't agree), but will probably try the drying. And what to refinish with (if ragging is desired again)?
#2
05-02-10, 07:29 PM
The streaking is common in bathrooms that get a lot of humidity with poor venting - it is known as "surfactant leaching". All latex paints will do it. It is more of a problem with dark colors, but it can happen with any color.
Oil based paints are not subject to surfactant leaching. You could do the ragging with an oil paint and glaze instead.
The color should not wipe out of the paint, but I suspect it has something to do with the amount of glycol in the glaze.
All you need to do on the first room (if repainting) is clean the surfactant off, prime (I would use an oil primer), and paint. Use a bathroom paint like Zinsser's Perma White or something similar if you want to use latex, and improve the venting situation.
I have done lots of ragging and faux finishing in bathrooms - some subject to lots of humidity. I have used oil in bathrooms that did not have real good venting to avoid the surfactant leaching problem. I have used SW paint/glaze, much like your mixture, in bathrooms too (with no shower and/or good venting).
Note: a trade off with oil paints is that while they are not subject to surfactant leaching they are more prone to mildew or mold growth, so you may have to stay on top on that issue.
Oil based paints are not subject to surfactant leaching. You could do the ragging with an oil paint and glaze instead.
The color should not wipe out of the paint, but I suspect it has something to do with the amount of glycol in the glaze.
All you need to do on the first room (if repainting) is clean the surfactant off, prime (I would use an oil primer), and paint. Use a bathroom paint like Zinsser's Perma White or something similar if you want to use latex, and improve the venting situation.
I have done lots of ragging and faux finishing in bathrooms - some subject to lots of humidity. I have used oil in bathrooms that did not have real good venting to avoid the surfactant leaching problem. I have used SW paint/glaze, much like your mixture, in bathrooms too (with no shower and/or good venting).
Note: a trade off with oil paints is that while they are not subject to surfactant leaching they are more prone to mildew or mold growth, so you may have to stay on top on that issue.
Last edited by Slatz; 05-02-10 at 07:46 PM.
#3
05-03-10, 05:23 AM
I would question the need for the green [water resistant] drywall. It doesn't paint as well as regular drywall and once drywall is primed and a coat or two latex enamel is applied - it has all the protection is should need.
I don't do much faux painting but I agree with Slatz about the surfactant leaching. Installing a stronger exhaust vent fan or better use of existing exhaust fan should help.
I don't do much faux painting but I agree with Slatz about the surfactant leaching. Installing a stronger exhaust vent fan or better use of existing exhaust fan should help.
