Spot Priming and Cutting In First


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Old 07-12-10, 12:35 PM
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Post Spot Priming and Cutting In First

Just beginning painting our tri-level townhouse and had a couple of questions that I didn't find answers for:

1. I'm using Benjamin Moore ceiling paint (ultra-flat). I'm working alone so was unable to roll right after cutting in. At the moment I have cut in all the ceilings about 3 inches. It appears to be feathered enough with good coverage and no ridges. Am I okay proceeding with rolling the rest of the ceiling? When I roll, can I take the paint right up to the edge of the wall? Was planning on 1 coat for the ceiling with 1/2" nap.

2. Can I do the same (cut in first, roll after its all dry) on the walls? Will be using Benjamin Moore Ben in eggshell. If so, when rolling just take the paint up to the edge of the wall? If doing 2 coats, I'll cut, roll, cut, roll and provide enough drying time in between coats?

3. I spot primed a bunch of areas with Bulls Eye 123. There was some new drywall, a lot of stains, crayon, etc. I'm concerned I've set myself up for flashing of the primed spots once I apply the new paint to the walls. I read that drying times may differ but should I be ok painting over these spot primed walls or do I need to sand to remove the sheen from the primed areas? I don't see any visible ridges but I did have to put a couple of coats to hide some paint samples we had put up on the walls. Current paint is builder's flat in an yellowish offwhite.

This forum has been a great resource and got me on the right track in tool & paint selection, technique, etc.
 
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Old 07-12-10, 03:11 PM
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I always roll first & cut second but yes, you can roll right to the wall. I roll, cut, roll, cut. I think it's faster.

I see no reason to try to remove the sheen before you paint the other wall.
 
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Old 07-13-10, 04:13 AM
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Cutting in first and then rolling is the correct way to paint but as Pulpo stated it's quicker to roll first [less brush work] There are times that rolling first will result in the brush work being noticeable.

A 1/2" nap roller cover is correct for a slick or orange peel texture ceiling, a heavier texture would require a thicker nap.

If you intend to apply 2 coats, I'd roll then brush the 1st and cut then roll the 2nd coat. The primer flashing shouldn't be a problem, it will slow down the top coat's drying time and there is a possibility that the top coat won't cover the primer as well as the unprimed areas that will suck up the paint better.

Did the bulls eye cover the crayon marks ok?
 
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Old 07-13-10, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by marksr View Post
If you intend to apply 2 coats, I'd roll then brush the 1st and cut then roll the 2nd coat.
Makes sense. I'll follow this method on the walls, which will have 2 coats. Roll, Cut, Cut, Roll

Originally Posted by marksr View Post
A 1/2" nap roller cover is correct for a slick or orange peel texture ceiling, a heavier texture would require a thicker nap.
Our ceiling and walls are a light to medium knockdown; don't seem to heavy. But I'll consider a 3/4" if coverage is lacking. I'm using 1/2" Wooster (synthetic) roller covers.

Originally Posted by marksr View Post
Did the bulls eye cover the crayon marks ok?
Crayon required a 2nd pass in some cases but covered up well.

Thanks.
 
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Old 07-13-10, 12:44 PM
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3/4" would probably be better for the ceiling although 1/2" should work. Keep your roller full of paint - don't try and squeeze the last drop out of the cover. The paint is the roller's lubricant, plenty of paint makes it roll easier and cover better
 
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Old 07-13-10, 01:13 PM
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Will do 3/4" for the ceiling on your recommendation then. It should help with painting the longer ceiling stripes as well.
 

Last edited by marksr; 07-13-10 at 01:32 PM. Reason: removed unneeded quote
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Old 07-18-10, 07:00 PM
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Thumbs up

Just reporting back after painting ceilings in 2 bedrooms and hallways:

- I initially used the 1/2" nap and just a couple of places didn't cover too well. Had to recoat in that room. I used the 3/4" nap for the next room and got great coverage.

- As the paint was drying I did see some stripe marks that freaked me out initially. After leaving it overnight, it looked much better. The stripes are very faint so I will most likely leave it and make sure to do better in the living area downstairs. But I see firsthand the benefits of using quality paint like benjamin moore ceiling paint . It leveled out and and blended in perfectly with the edges I had cut a few days before.

Now couple of questions because I still think my technique is off and want to make it better before starting the walls:

- after dunking the roller in the 5 gallon bucket, how many times should I run it on the metal screen? I tried up and down 3-4 times, but it would still be dripping.
- when rolling a new stripe, how much should I overlap the adjacent stripe? an inch?
- when backrolling the previous stripe, do I go over it just one way or "round trip"?
- when painting ceilings in a room with one window, do you roll the stripes parallel to the wall with window or perpendicular to that wall?

Thanks!
 
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Old 07-19-10, 04:15 AM
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Don't know that I've ever counted how many times I run the roller up and down on the screen/grid The objective is to have as much paint as possible on the roller when it hits the wall/ceiling BUT not dripping any or atleast minimal drips before the roller gets there

Normally you'll attack the unpainted portion of the wall with the fresh roller full of paint, then as the paint on the roller gets used up, back roll the previous stripe. Never press down on the roller trying to 'squeeze' out the remaining paint. A light touch makes for a better looking and easier job.

It shouldn't make much difference which direction the ceiling is rolled in - as long as you have full coverage. Generally the ceiling is rolled parallel to the shortest walls. When a ceiling needs 2 coats of paint it is best to cross roll [1 direction 1st coat, opposing direction on the 2nd]
 
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Old 07-19-10, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by marksr View Post

Normally you'll attack the unpainted portion of the wall with the fresh roller full of paint, then as the paint on the roller gets used up, back roll the previous stripe.
Thanks for the info. I guess the only thing I'm not clear about is:
- When rolling a new stripe do I overlap the previous one a bit?
- when I backroll do I roll back and forth or just one-way?

I was trying to put stripes just next to the previous one without overlapping and backrolling just one-way. The backroll seemed fine but I feel the paint between the stripes ended up a bit thin.

Thanks.
 
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Old 07-19-10, 02:24 PM
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I think you might be over analyzing it.

1 roller full of paint should do 1 stripe, then take that roller full [most of the paint is now gone and reroll the previous stripe. If you over lap a little or even miss a thin strip with the 2nd stripe, the back rolling should take care of it. When you backroll, roll up and down just like you did with the roller full of paint but with a light touch.
 
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Old 07-19-10, 03:26 PM
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Once again, Thank You for your advice!!
 
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Old 08-03-10, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by marksr View Post
I think you might be over analyzing it.
...
Just an update. I've done a couple more ceilings and still seeing surface cracks and more visible cracks between stripes. I'm using a 3/4" nap with BM ceiling paint, rolling a strip with full roller, and then backrolling the previous stripe once.

The one ceiling where I did 2 coats with a 1/2" roller showed similar cracks after the first coat but 2nd was greatly improved. I'm thinking this may be a better approach than trying just 1 coat with the thick nap.

Is it possible the ceiling with builder's flat paint is not sealed at all and the first coat is basically being sucked in to seal the surface and drying too quickly?

I'm definitely using plenty of paint: 7 gallons at about 140-150 sq/ft per gallon.

I still have more ceiling to do, so I'm thinking of maybe trying out Bulls Eye WaterBase (RustOleum.com) before applying the BM paint. Or try thinning with water? Or floetrol?



Thoughts?
 

Last edited by safoo; 08-03-10 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 08-04-10, 04:46 AM
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Primer might help. Some builders [or their painters] skip the primer as a cost saving measure

Could you better describe the cracks or maybe supply a pic?
 
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Old 08-04-10, 04:51 PM
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If I had to describe it, the cracks resemble mud that has dried out and cracked.

According to BM website, this can happen if "Paint is applied too thickly, usually over a porous surface".

Do you think that is the cause?

Now the newly painted areas already showing cracks, can I lightly sand and paint over it? Or sand, zinnser, then paint?

And unpainted ceilings, I guess I can still try 2 coats with 3/8" nap instead of the 3/4" I was doing. Or seal with zinnser first?

Lastly, is there potential for same issues on the walls and how to prevent it?

I will try to take pictures to better show how bad the cracks are.
 

Last edited by marksr; 08-05-10 at 09:11 AM. Reason: removed unneeded quote
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Old 08-05-10, 03:51 AM
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When a heavy coat of paint is applied and it dries fast, cracking can occur but that is normally an issue with exterior painting. What happens is when the paint dries at an uneven rate [top dries faster than bottom] some of the paint shrinks causing the cracks. The only time I recall cracking paint inside is with new construction in the winter where the paint froze on the wall - I think we can rule that out

Is there any cracking over the areas that you spot primed? I don't think using a 3/8" nap will help but thinning the paint a little might.

Priming might be your best bet since it sounds like the builder's paint didn't seal the texture although I doubt that primer would help much with the ceilings that are already repainted. Generally the only way to get rid of the cracks is to fill them with joint compound, sand, prime and paint

It is hard to say if the walls will have the same issue. If they were painted with the same paint [and no primer] it's likely they will also be problematic. If the current paint on the walls is washable - you'll probably be ok without a primer.
 
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Old 08-05-10, 05:03 AM
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Thanks, marksr. The primed areas aren't showing the cracking issues. Also, I looked more closely and the cracks are pretty fine. Going to see if a 2nd coat helps as it did on the first ceiling. Otherwise will go the long route

The walls have the same paint as the ceilings So I'm leaning towards priming first, though the wall paint should have more open time.

One final question before I get back on continuing this painting project, I previously used Bulls Eye 123. I'm seeing this new Bulls Eye Waterbase at Lowes for a good price. Only difference I can tell is that this is made for interior only and dries flat. Any drawbacks in using a flat primer/sealer?
 

Last edited by marksr; 08-05-10 at 09:11 AM. Reason: removed unnneeded quote
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Old 08-05-10, 09:09 AM
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If I remember correctly, zinnser has a whole line of bullesye primers including oil base. The waterbased bullseye primer lowes has on sell should be fine. Since the areas that were spot primed have no cracking - priming first sounds like the way to go.
 
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Old 08-10-10, 03:50 PM
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Just wanted to update. After couple of conversations with my Benjamin Moore store, they also did feel the large nap and unsealed walls were partly to blame for issues I was having.

They recommended I use a BM 3/8" shed resistant cover. They also said the BM ceiling paint and Aura both will act as the primer on the first coat, so no additional primer necessary if I was using those paints. Also helped out with my technique.

I rolled a bedroom with 2 coats of Aura and family room ceiling with 2 coats of the ceiling paint and everything came out perfect. I also recoated the previous problem ceilings and all the imperfections are covered up nicely.

Most importantly, with how the results came out, painting was fun again and I'm looking forward to continuing painting the rest of the house.

The BM Aura is definitely expensive ($57/gallon) but the result is great. Additionally there is night and day difference with the 3/8" shed resistant covers (look similar to white doves) and provide much better control for me compared to the 1/2" (or 3/4") Wooster high capacity synthetic cover.

Thanks again for all your help!
 
 

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