Exterior painting Azek cellular PVC trimboard with *dark* acrylic paint


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Old 07-10-11, 05:12 PM
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Exterior painting Azek cellular PVC trimboard with *dark* acrylic paint

I am planning to fabricate exterior window shutters using Azek cellular PVC trimboard. I would like to paint them with Benjamin Moore Van Deusen Blue (acrylic, high gloss, still undecided about the specific BM line) to match the entry door. The problem: this paint has a light reflective value of about 9.2 -- and Azek says that its PVC products need to be painted with light colors, with a light reflective value of 55 or over. (I read somewhere that, if one still wants to paint with a dark color, one needs to use a "heat reflective" paint or a paint specifically use for that purpose like "Sherwin Williams Vinyl Safe").

Does anyone have an idea of how to solve this issue? Does BM produce an acrylic, high gloss paint that can be tinted dark and used in cellular PVC?

I guess if I can't find a solution, I might have to consider fabricating the shutters with cedar, cypress or redwood, then water-protect, then alkyd primer, then high gloss acrylic BM paint... but the no-maintenance property of PVC is appealing.

Thanks
 
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Old 07-10-11, 05:28 PM
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Yes. You can find the info on their website.
 
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Old 07-10-11, 05:28 PM
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'Reading somewhere' isn't the same as hearing it from Aztec themselves. I would ask them if that's true about the darker color.
 
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Old 07-10-11, 06:23 PM
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Thanks for the reply. @Pulpo: I am positive Azek is supposed to be used only with colors of LRV>55. My question was whether BM Van Deusen could still be used in a particular BM line. As you suggested, I will call BM and ask them tomorrow Mon.

@XSleeper. Thanks for the link. It looks that the closest color that can be used in vinyl is Philipsburg Blue
philipsburg blue HC-159 Paint - Benjamin Moore philipsburg blue Paint Color Details
It very close, but not exactly, to the Van Deusen Blue that I need to match:
van deusen blue HC-156 Paint - Benjamin Moore van deusen blue Paint Color Details de

Given your experienced and trained eyes, do you think the difference is that noticeable? The shutters are only for the second-floor front windows, so they will not be next to the first-floor entry door. I wonder whether I can get away by using a different, albeit very close, color.

Thanks
 
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Old 07-10-11, 06:30 PM
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(By the way, philipsburg blue has LVR of 16.8; Van Deusen has LVR of 9.2 . I wonder if that makes a difference. Thanks)
 
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Old 07-10-11, 06:44 PM
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Unfortunately I'm officially "colorblind" and even though I see many colors just fine, I'll decline giving my opinion on colors.

One thing I do know, is that my local SW reps have told me they can mix "any color" with their Vinyl Safe additives. While that doesn't agree with what their website states about their limited palette selection, I would think the rep would know what he's talking about.

So maybe BM is the same... they might be able to mix the exact color you need- only way to find out is to ask.
 
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Old 07-10-11, 08:15 PM
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Thanks XSleeper. I forgot to mention: the shutter will not face direct sunlight (north facing window). The issue with PVC and dark paint appears to be more important with direct sunlight. I wonder whether this is not really important in my case. Anyway, I'll talk to BM (both phone and my local store). Thanks
 
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Old 07-11-11, 05:19 AM
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SWP's vinyl safe is a paint additive, not a different base. I'm not overly familiar with BM's product line but if the 2 colors are very close - the correct color should be able to be used with the additive without any problem. It is possible no one will notice a slight color difference between the door and shutters, the more difference between the 2 colors - the harder the difference will be to spot.
 
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Old 07-11-11, 05:26 AM
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Benjamin Moore and Sherwin Williams are both top paint manufacturers - I think you'll be just fine if you get either one involved in this project by visiting one of their stores.
 
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Old 07-11-11, 07:30 AM
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Thanks for your replies. I went to my BM store. Unfortunately, the guy told me they don't have a vinyl safe additive per se as SW does. Furthermore, while he confirmed that philisburg blue is tinted in such way that it works on PVC and can be guaranteed, he also confirmed that van deusen blue is too dark and he couldn't guarantee. He agreed with me that, because they are shutters (free-standing elements, not fascia or similar fixed/attached elements where heat contraction and expansion would be more problematic) and because they won't get direct sunlight, I could probably be OK if using the darker blue -- and, if and when it shows problems of heat retention, I can always re-paint with the lighter blue.

(Another solution would be to use the lighted blue for the shutters and re-paint the entry door with the lighted blue as well, so they match, but I don't want to go there...)

So I guess it's up to me. I will also inquire about cedar/redwood/cypress instead of PVC, even with the added mantenience issue. Is there something nicer than applying that very first coat of penetrating alkyd primer to a smooth-sanded piece of wood and seeing it getting into those nice open pores?
 
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Old 07-11-11, 09:07 AM
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You could take a sample of your front door paint to SWP and they should be able to match it with their vinyl safe paint.

If you go with cedar or redwood - be sure to oil prime it well, including the back side. While I've stained some cypress, I don't think I've ever painted any.
 
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Old 07-11-11, 09:44 AM
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Excellent advice Marksr! I just spoke over the phone with a SW store close by, and they told me they can match the BM van deusen blue with their vinyl safe technology ! Problem solved (I hope). I'll keep you posted about the end result.
 
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Old 07-11-11, 12:53 PM
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When putting your Azek pieces together, it will be a good idea to glue your joints and/or overlaps together with Azek PVC glue. This will help bond things together as a unit so that you don't have pieces popping loose with expansion and contraction.
 
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Old 07-11-11, 04:40 PM
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Taking marksr's idea a step further, you could test the vinyl safe paint on a piece of PVC before you actually build all the shutters. Paint a piece of PVC & leave it outside for awhile.
 
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Old 07-22-11, 08:24 PM
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Azek (no primer needed) and Duration (self-priming): is priming overkill?

Thanks for your replies. I went to SW and got Duration exterior acrylic with VinylSafe technology -- they were able to color-match it to my needs

Quick question: Azek claims that its product doesn't need priming. SW Duration claims it's self priming. In these circumstances, I wonder whether priming is overkill. Is it really needed? If so, I have some Zinsser 1-2-3. However, if applying a high quality self-priming paint on a surface that doesn't need priming to begin with is sufficient, I would prefer to save time and not prime.

By the way, the half-used Zinsser I got is about 4 years old. It looks in good shape. Is there a shelf-like for it? I guess I can always buy a quart for less than $10 -- but, again, it might not be needed.

(By the way, I have more than enough Duration for two coats -- and I understand that the first coat serves a primer, which is an additional reason why priming with 1-2-3 may indeed be overkill).
 
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Old 07-23-11, 05:05 AM
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I'd skip the primer but add a little of Flood's Emulsa Bond to the first coat of paint. The EB will help with adhesion. If you were painting over wood, I'd use a separate primer, but pvc won't suck up the paint/primer like wood will.

Depending on how well the container is sealed, unused paint/primer can last a long time. If it mixes up well and still looks like it did when it was new - it should be ok to use. It's usually beneficial to strain old paint to get out any boogers that might be in the can.
 
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Old 07-23-11, 05:40 AM
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I'd also skip the primer, and instead spend that time prepping the Azek with some light sanding. You'd pay special attention to any edges that were cut, sanding them smooth, then brushing them with lacquer thinner to "reseal" the surface. It's also a good idea to lightly knockdown all the sharp corners.
 
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Old 07-27-11, 08:36 AM
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Spot-prime?

Thank you for your replies.

There were some hole in the Azek after assembly of the shutters -- some dents, some screw holes, and -- most importantly -- some larger pocket screw holes made with a Kregg jig. I used Famowood wood filler (for smaller holes) and Minwax two-part wood filler (similar to Bondo, for larger holes) to fill these holes.

If I just sand but not prime, should I at least spot prime these filled holes with some Zinsser 123? Or would it be OK to just use the first coat of Duration (with a bit of Emulsa Bond) as the primer coat of both Azek and the filled holes without first spot-priming the holes?

Thanks
 
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Old 07-27-11, 09:35 AM
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If you intend to apply 2 coats of duration, it should be fine without a separate primer.
 
 

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