(Another) TSP / Bulls Eye question
#1
12-20-11, 11:27 AM
(Another) TSP / Bulls Eye question
Hello,
I read another thread on the TSP/Bulls Eye deal, but with no real clear answer...
I also went with the Bulls Eye 1-2-3 and noticed the same thing about the no TSP.
Reason I'm using Bulls Eye is the pain we got (expensive) with the primer in it isn't adhering to the walls well at all. I wasn't around for the painting of the first two bedrooms, but when we removed the tape, the paint peeled off in some areas. The neighbor who was helping my wife said she'd never seen paint go on so weird before.
After talking to a lady at Ace Hardware about how Kilz 2 didn't seem to be working on the living room walls at all (wanted to use that as a base coat so the paint didn't peel), the lady said it sounds like the original paint on there was an oil based or very glossy. The Kilz basically looks chalky, and only "stuck" to the peaks, not the valleys. After two coats you can still see the old 70's mint green in the valleys clear as day (almost as if we only had one light coat on the walls).
I did a few test spots with the water based Bulls Eye and also the oil based Bulls Eye to see which would work out for us (you can tell the oil based is a different beast all together, seems to soak into the oil material better, lays smoother, and has a very flat finish.. where as the water based still appears to stick well and is covering everything up, but seems to go on more like a normal paint without the visible soaking in look).
Anyhow, so that's what we're using a bonding primer, but I would like to clean the paint that's there already in case another reason the paint/primer mix wasn't sticking well was because of a kerosene heater or something building up crap on the walls. I doubt it as it seems to be doing the blotchy look evenly on all the walls, but I'd rather do a bonding primer and have it adhere, and then do the colored paints.
So with TSP not being a good cleaning agent per the can, is a TSP substitute okay, or should that also be avoided? Would using a denatured alcohol work, etc, etc.
After having done two layers over this large living room in vain, I want to make sure the stuff goes on RIGHT this time. My arm can't take much more lol
I read another thread on the TSP/Bulls Eye deal, but with no real clear answer...
I also went with the Bulls Eye 1-2-3 and noticed the same thing about the no TSP.
Reason I'm using Bulls Eye is the pain we got (expensive) with the primer in it isn't adhering to the walls well at all. I wasn't around for the painting of the first two bedrooms, but when we removed the tape, the paint peeled off in some areas. The neighbor who was helping my wife said she'd never seen paint go on so weird before.
After talking to a lady at Ace Hardware about how Kilz 2 didn't seem to be working on the living room walls at all (wanted to use that as a base coat so the paint didn't peel), the lady said it sounds like the original paint on there was an oil based or very glossy. The Kilz basically looks chalky, and only "stuck" to the peaks, not the valleys. After two coats you can still see the old 70's mint green in the valleys clear as day (almost as if we only had one light coat on the walls).
I did a few test spots with the water based Bulls Eye and also the oil based Bulls Eye to see which would work out for us (you can tell the oil based is a different beast all together, seems to soak into the oil material better, lays smoother, and has a very flat finish.. where as the water based still appears to stick well and is covering everything up, but seems to go on more like a normal paint without the visible soaking in look).
Anyhow, so that's what we're using a bonding primer, but I would like to clean the paint that's there already in case another reason the paint/primer mix wasn't sticking well was because of a kerosene heater or something building up crap on the walls. I doubt it as it seems to be doing the blotchy look evenly on all the walls, but I'd rather do a bonding primer and have it adhere, and then do the colored paints.
So with TSP not being a good cleaning agent per the can, is a TSP substitute okay, or should that also be avoided? Would using a denatured alcohol work, etc, etc.
After having done two layers over this large living room in vain, I want to make sure the stuff goes on RIGHT this time. My arm can't take much more lol
#2
12-20-11, 03:07 PM
Welcome to the forums!
How old is your house? Back when oil base interior paint was the norm, it was usually flat oil in all the rooms except for the kitchen and bath. K&B would get an oil base enamel. Latex paint doesn't adhere well to oil enamel so a solvent based primer is best. Generally no primer is needed to apply latex over flat oil. That's the norm but there are always the exceptions. Here's some info on how to tell what type of paint is on your walls - http://www.doityourself.com/forum/pa...latex-oil.html
I've heard that there have been adhesion issues with Kilz 2. I don't use it because it's a poor stain covering primer and there are better primers to choose from. An oil base primer like your oil bullseye works well for substrates where adhesion is expected to be an issue.
TSP is a great detergent but it must be rinsed well! I use on exteriors where I can rinse it with a pressure washer or water hose but have never used in on interior walls. Most any detergent is fine for cleaning the walls as long as you can rinse off the detergent residue. I've not used the TSP substitute but I've heard it's not as hard to rinse. There is no need to go crazy with the cleaning. As long as the wall is halfway clean and there is no wax or grease - it should be ok to paint. Smoke and nicotine stains can be hard to wash off and will bleed thru latex paint but an oil base primer will address that issue.
How old is your house? Back when oil base interior paint was the norm, it was usually flat oil in all the rooms except for the kitchen and bath. K&B would get an oil base enamel. Latex paint doesn't adhere well to oil enamel so a solvent based primer is best. Generally no primer is needed to apply latex over flat oil. That's the norm but there are always the exceptions. Here's some info on how to tell what type of paint is on your walls - http://www.doityourself.com/forum/pa...latex-oil.html
I've heard that there have been adhesion issues with Kilz 2. I don't use it because it's a poor stain covering primer and there are better primers to choose from. An oil base primer like your oil bullseye works well for substrates where adhesion is expected to be an issue.
TSP is a great detergent but it must be rinsed well! I use on exteriors where I can rinse it with a pressure washer or water hose but have never used in on interior walls. Most any detergent is fine for cleaning the walls as long as you can rinse off the detergent residue. I've not used the TSP substitute but I've heard it's not as hard to rinse. There is no need to go crazy with the cleaning. As long as the wall is halfway clean and there is no wax or grease - it should be ok to paint. Smoke and nicotine stains can be hard to wash off and will bleed thru latex paint but an oil base primer will address that issue.
#3
12-21-11, 07:01 AM
Group Moderator
I'd probably go with a scuff sand instead of cleaning unless the walls are really full of gunk.
We don't allow smoking in our units (or candles or oil lamps,...) but the occasional tenant will think they can do it without us knowing - they're wrong, of course. Once they move out, we use bullseye to cover the accumlation of soot on the walls before we repaint and don't bother to clean at all first. We have an advantage over you, though, in that we know exactly what paint is on the walls since we put it there.
We don't allow smoking in our units (or candles or oil lamps,...) but the occasional tenant will think they can do it without us knowing - they're wrong, of course. Once they move out, we use bullseye to cover the accumlation of soot on the walls before we repaint and don't bother to clean at all first. We have an advantage over you, though, in that we know exactly what paint is on the walls since we put it there.
