Adding Polyshades to a Urethane clear to darken my finish.

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Old 03-10-14, 02:31 PM
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Adding Polyshades to a Urethane clear to darken my finish.

I am staining pine window sash (new). I applied a sealer and then a Sherman Williams stain but it came out lighter than I wanted. My next step would be to spray paint it with either with a one part or two part urethane using an HVLP Gun.

I tried Polyshades and was not too impressed. I was thinking, however, of mixing say 4 parts Polyshade to 1 part regular urethane and spraying it on with a HVLP gun. My rationale is that I can apply it more evenly and reduced with clear urethane it would be more controllable.

Any thoughts?
 
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Old 03-10-14, 02:48 PM
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As long as the bases are compatible you can intermix them, I've even added paint to poly before to get the look desired. Mixing tinted poly with clear poly just reduces the tint.

What sealer did you use before staining? a wood conditioner? While I've sprayed lots of poly, I've always thought it was more cost/time effective to brush the window sash.
 
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Old 03-10-14, 06:06 PM
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I used Smith's two part penetrating sealer, a product used a lot in boats. I have also used it on a cherry exterior door I refinished.

I am a lot better spraying than brushing. On the last one I actually used an automobile clear coat finish I had on hand. It is expensive stuff ($160 per gallon) but should be about the best for standing up to UV.

I was thinking about using the Sherwin Williams stain and mixing some of it in with a one part urethane, but I haven't done that.
 
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Old 03-10-14, 06:15 PM
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I hate brushing Polyshades, the results are much better when you spray it. When you say you "tried it" does that mean you sprayed it? If not, I really doubt you will need to dilute it. Usually it takes 1 to 3 coats to build up the darker color you want, and that's when you're spraying it straight. If you do decide to dilute it, I think you should probably ask your Sherwin-Williams rep what sort of polyurethane he would suggest you use. And I would think a 50:50 mix would be plenty dilute. I bet he would want you to stick with a Minwax polyurethane since they are from the same company, you would think they would be compatible. I'd also suggest that once you have the tone/hue you desire that you give it a final topcoat of straight polyurethane.
 
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Old 03-10-14, 08:13 PM
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I sprayed it. You are right about brushing Polyshades.

I used it in the past on a sash that was severely water stained and it worked okay. It did darken it quite a bit and obscured the grain some. That is why I was thinking about the mixing Polyshades and regular urethane.

Part of my problem is dealing with pine which needs to match the cherry casings.

Jim
 
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Old 03-10-14, 09:02 PM
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Well, if you applied the "sealer" before you stained, it's probably no wonder that your pine didn't get dark enough! You did it the wrong way around. Stain first! (see their own article on the subject) Pine is finicky and even an oily clear penetrating wood conditioner will dramatically make pine lighter than if no conditioner was used.

While urethane (like spar urethane) and polyurethane may be similar, they are not exactly the same and there is nothing that says you can play chemist and mix the two and be successful. Polyshades is obviously a polyurethane, due to it's name. So I think it would be wise to at least ask an expert at your local paint store before continuing with your plan. Unless you are going to anyway no matter what. It's true that if they are both oil based you would think they would both dry okay, but there is a reason that they are different product lines. They are not all identical in chemical makeup. Just read the MSDS sheets on both products you intend to use and consider all the different chemicals that will be blended together.
 
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Old 03-10-14, 09:58 PM
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I used the Smith's sealer for a reason. Part of the windows I am replacing had dry rot due partly because the wood was not sealed. My first priority was sealing to enhance the weather-ability of the wood. I contacted Smith and they recommended sealing before staining.

My experience with pine and soft woods are that they take stain irregularly. Last time I worked with them I used a true colored shellac as a a first coat sealer and it worked well. Most people I have encountered say seal first, stain second.

So far, although the stain took lighter than I might have wanted, it was very even and looks good. I just need to darken it a bit.

Thanks for the suggestions, however. Next time I will try staining first.

Jim
 
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Old 03-11-14, 05:46 AM
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When ever I need to alter the stain color of sealed wood I add however much tint it takes for 1-2 coats. I have taken the pigments from the bottom of a stain can to tint both oil base varnish and oil base poly. Tinted polys are a lot easier to use if the wood has already had one coat of poly/varnish applied. As mentioned above it's always a good idea to top coat tinted poly with clear as that will protect the 'color' coat from wearing off in places. Because of how small the area is I've never seen a reason to use a wood conditioner on pine sash.
 
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Old 03-11-14, 11:53 AM
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I like your advice. I will give a try mixing in some of the SW pigment.

Jim
 
 

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