Exterior paint - pressure cleaning


  #1  
Old 04-06-14, 07:59 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,676
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Exterior paint - pressure cleaning

Two years ago I hired someone to paint the exterior of my house. Contract called for pressure cleaning the house to strip off old paint, 1 coat of primer, two top coats. I spec'ed Benjamin Moore Fresh Start primer and latex paint. I wasn't at the job when this went on, I was traveling on a business trip and when I came back it was done.

Three months later on the lower side of the house paint started bubbling and peeling. I can see under the new paint the old paint. Called the painter back and phone disconnected.

Now I am going to repaint and will be hiring out again. I wanted to make sure I find someone who I can depend on. House is concrete block stucco. I have some questions.

1. Shouldn't the pressure washing remove all the old paint?

2. Should the house be allowed to dry (how long? hours? days?) after pressure washed?

3. Is there a way to protect the shrubbery in front of the house that are about 18" away from the walls? My wife is worried that the pressure washing will rip her plants apart and the peeled paint chips will be everywhere.

4. Do you typically hire the painter and have them do the pressure washing, or this is two separate hires?

5. Are those single coat prime and paint any good? Or better stick with prime coat then two top coats?
 
  #2  
Old 04-07-14, 04:22 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 48,088
Received 398 Votes on 354 Posts
#1 - no, but it will remove some loose paint. Pressure high enough to remove paint will likely also damage the substrate and can force water into where it don't belong.

#2 - yes, but it depends on a lot of factors. The next day is usually long enough if the drying conditions are decent but it could take longer. Stucco generally dries quicker than wood.

#3 - PWing shouldn't hurt the bushes as long as they don't get a direct hit. As long as care is used I wouldn't be overly concerned. Paint chips can/will go everywhere. I generally use a rake to clean them up but not every job is the same.

#4 - I prefer to do the PWing myself, gives me better control to make sure it's done right.

#5 - IMO the primer in paint is more of a marketing ploy than fact. Generally repaints don't need priming. When primer is needed a separate dedicated primer is almost always better.

I'm concerned about why the paint peeled! The 2 mostly likely causes is either the masonry was still wet when the paint was applied or the PWing didn't remove all the chalk - paint doesn't adhere well to chalk. Whenever chalk can't all be removed you need to either spray on a masonry conditioner or add Flood's EmulsaBond to the 1st coat of latex paint [or primer]
 
  #3  
Old 04-07-14, 07:26 AM
M
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 51
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Pics? Florida is pretty humid, so it's likely that it just wasn't dry enough to paint.

Even here in Canada, it's been humid enough for brand new block to literally 'sweat'. This was indoors as well.

If you hire again, make sure they use a moisture meter thing to check how wet the walls are. It had two little prongs that you stick in and it uses electricity to check humidity. They're pretty cheap, so if they charge you more just because of that then hire elsewhere or buy one yourself.
 
  #4  
Old 04-07-14, 08:17 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 48,088
Received 398 Votes on 354 Posts
I used to paint in fla and have painted 100s of stucco homes there. The biggest issue with exterior paint in fla is the intense sun will both fade and deteriorate the paint. When the paint deteriorates it becomes chalky and paint will not adhere long term to chalk! The chalk must be addressed! Ideally you'd wash it all off but that isn't always feasible - that's where the masonry conditioner or EB comes into play.
 
  #5  
Old 04-08-14, 07:57 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,676
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Thank you all. I am not aware of the masonry conditioner or EB.

To answer your questions, at the spot where the paint peeled and exposed the old paint surface, if I touch and smear my finger on it, I can see white chalked dust on my finger. If I touch the surface of the new paint, nothing. Is this what you all mean by chalking?

Here are some pictures.







The peeling started only a few months after the house was newly painted.
 
  #6  
Old 04-08-14, 07:59 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 48,088
Received 398 Votes on 354 Posts
Yes, the residue on your finger is chalk. It needs to be removed but that isn't always feasible [it doesn't just wash off easily] so a masonry conditioner or EmulsaBond is used to bind up the chalk. Your previous painter failed to remove or deal with the chalk.
 
  #7  
Old 04-08-14, 08:01 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,676
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
By the way, I called a professional paint company out to have a look, and the guy told me the paint job I had was horrible, and they didn't prepare the surface well enough for new paint adhesion. He suggest I hire them to repaint, and he will use a sand blaster to sand off all the old junk.

Sand blaster? Is that really necessary? Wouldn't that create debris EVERYWHERE?

Sand blaster?
 
  #8  
Old 04-08-14, 08:03 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 48,088
Received 398 Votes on 354 Posts
There are different ways to blast off the old paint and they are all messy. It would be hard to garuntee a paint job that is applied over paint that might not be bonded well to the substrate. I hate to do a job like yours just for that reason. I'd probably PW, scrape and PW again and hope/pray that I got everything that might pose a problem.
 
  #9  
Old 04-08-14, 08:06 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,676
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
masksr,

would the masonry conditioner or EB you suggested work in this case without having to take off all the old paint?

In other words, a regular PW, then using the masonry conditioner, then prime and paint would that suffice?
 
  #10  
Old 04-08-14, 10:10 AM
W
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 634
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Pretty much impossible for anyone to give you an answer on that question. Like Mark said, exterior painting is at least 1/2 prep and the other 1/2 painting. At this point, you have to assume that there's a lot more failing paint to come off and it's just going to be messy. No way around it.

Putting new paint, with whatever you add to it over old failing paint won't really do much of anything. Even if you can't see the paint failing yet, it's doing so.

That's why exterior painting is so labour intensive. I spend my entire spring and summer scraping, sanding, etc. with a little painting mixed in.

A few years ago, I did an average size cottage that was over 100yrs old. I removed over 50lbs of paint chips from the exterior. Let's just say it was incredibly messy.
 
  #11  
Old 04-08-14, 01:18 PM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 48,088
Received 398 Votes on 354 Posts
Masonry conditioner or EB is only effective if it's applied directly to the chalk ..... well EB does have other uses too, but not with your paint issue. Paint or paint additives can't magically soak thru the existing to bond it better to the substrate. There is a chance that any paint applied over paint that was applied over chalk will peel, not the new paint but the paint underneath it. That's why we dread going over a botched up paint job and why the contractor you brought in suggested removing all the paint and starting over.

You might get lucky with removing what easily comes off, treating or removing any chalk and repainting. The problem is you can't guarantee a job like that. Pretty much all you can do is remove as much as you can afford [time and/or money] and repaint using proper prep. I hate doing a job when the quality of the end product is out of my control. Wish there was a magic coating to fix it but there isn't.
 
  #12  
Old 04-08-14, 02:28 PM
F
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,495
Received 36 Votes on 28 Posts
Your new contractor may be talking about a sand sweep rather than full-fledged sand blasting. A sand sweep uses the same equipment but it is intended to only remove the loose material rather than taking off everything down to the bare substrate. Still incredibly messy unless a blaster with a vacuum attachment is used.
 
  #13  
Old 04-09-14, 04:19 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 48,088
Received 398 Votes on 354 Posts
There is also an attachment for a PWer that adds sand to the water. I've only used it a couple of times, I was very skeptical at first but it did an ok job. As Furd stated, you don't need to remove all the paint - just what doesn't have a good bond.

I haven't seen the vacuum attachment for sandblasting but it sounds like a good idea.
 
  #14  
Old 04-10-14, 11:57 AM
Rickaroonie's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 19
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
How many quotes did you get and did you accept the cheapest? There are so many yahoo's out there that have no intention (or simply don't know (self taught)) of giving there customers a quality job.
Your painter seems to of just thrown the paint on and walked away. Like the other painters here, I'm not sure I would accept your job, too dangerous (headaches). If I did, I wouldn't be suppling any guarantee.

Good luck,
Rickaroonie
 
  #15  
Old 05-05-14, 08:23 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,676
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Just wanted to follow up on this thread.

I have contacted three painting contractors and have narrowed down to two.

(1) First one was a card I picked up from a bulletin board at Home Depot. Called the guy up and he came out to provide an estimate. He couldn't speak English well enough to communicate effectively, and so I ruled him out even though he had the lowest price. Communication drives expectation and I just think the chance of miscommunication is too high.

(2) The next one is one I found on Angie's List. Has a web site with many customer testimonials and pictures of projects. He explained what he would do. He would:

(#a) clean my exterior wall with pressure washer. He has something he called a "TURBO" which is a spinning head and it will clean up most of the new and old paint.
(#b) patch up any noticeable cracks on the walls.
(#c) apply a waterproofing layer around the bottom wall all the way around, he described it as a painted on application that they will paint from the bottom to about 24" or so up. I am sensing he is describing something similar to what people used to waterproof their shower wall substrate before they tile?
(#d) apply a coat of primer, which he said they use Sherman Williams and it already has the masonry bonding agent already in it.
(#e) apply two coats of paint.

(3) The third one is a recommendation from a neighbor who had his house painted last year and he seemed happy, no peeling paint. They came out and gave me an estimate. He told me he would pressure wash my exterior wall, AND my concrete tiled roof, then fix, seal cracks, then apply a "sealer" before painting to help bonding to the masonry walls.

The third contractor gave me a price 35% lower than contractor #2, and he threw in pressure washing my roof as well.

Any comments? Specifically if the "waterproofing" of the bottom portion of the wall to go on before primer and paint proposed by the second contractor?

Who would you pick?
 
  #16  
Old 05-05-14, 11:28 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 48,088
Received 398 Votes on 354 Posts
I'd probably eliminate #1 also, lack of communication could become an issue

I don't own a turbo tip for my PWer but I am familiar with them, as noted it rotates the water as it comes out making it more aggressive. I think that would be a good choice for removing your peeling paint!

Did he say what he was using for a waterproofing coating? Coatings like Drylok do a good job of sealing raw block. It's also possible he's referring to block fill, it's primary job is to fill the pores of the block and helps some in the waterproofing dept. Elastomeric paint is a waterproof coating that is normally used as a top coat and should be applied over sound paint, not raw block. A coating like Thompson's WaterSeal might cause an issue with paint not adhering well to it. RedGard is sometimes used to waterproof showers but it is expensive and I don't know how well it would work outside.

SWP has a line of masonry primers/paints under the Loxon name. I've not used it, so I can't say if it's suitable to apply over chalk. You should be able to call SWP and talk to the rep to find out more.

It sounds like your neighbor's painter did a good job BUT the big issues is your peeling paint! As stated previously, most paints don't adhere well to chalk. IMO removing as much of the failing paint as you can is a priority. New paint won't adhere long term if the paint it is applied to decides to loose it's bond with the underlying paint.
 
  #17  
Old 05-06-14, 05:28 PM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,676
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
I called up contractor #2 and asked what kind of waterproofing product they had in mind to paint the bottom perimeter of the house.

They said they will be using a Sherwin Williams product which they will roll on from the bottom to 24" height all the way around. This product is called ConFlex XL High Build Coating. Here is a link to the product:

ConFlex XL High Build Coating - Contractors - Sherwin-Williams

However, after reading the information, I am still not sure if this product is designed to go on top of or under the paint.

The contractor plans to use this product over the pressure cleaned walls, then coat with primer, and 2 coats of paint.
 

Last edited by marksr; 05-07-14 at 11:51 AM.
  #18  
Old 05-07-14, 11:46 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 48,088
Received 398 Votes on 354 Posts
That's an elastomeric coating. It's normally used as the top coat. It's good paint, holds up well and does a decent job of waterproofing masonry. Because of the nature of elastomeric paint it doesn't go as far as most paints. It's also a slightly softer finish than most exterior latex paints. I've never heard of anyone just using it on the bottom but I would assume he's be doing it that way for awhile. Might be nice to look at a house he's done that way.

There would be no need to prime over the elastomeric but it might need primer under it - depends on the condition of the underlying paint.
 
  #19  
Old 05-09-14, 09:21 AM
M
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,676
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
marksr,

thanks for the advice. I also contacted Sherwin Williams and inquired about using their ConFlex XL product as an waterproofing undercoat, and their technical support did not seem to endorse that idea. This is what Sherwin Williams said.

"Thank you for taking the time to contact Sherwin-Williams. We appreciate your inquiry.

You are correct, the Conflex XL High Build Coating is a topcoat product, however your new painter is accurate when it comes to the current condition and preparation needed to re-coat. The last painter should have removed any chalking present on the current substrate and should have also removed any loose/peeling paint. It also sounds like he used an inferior product for this application. You should mechanically grind and pressure wash as much of this new coating off as possible. You should also clean with a TSP/water solution to remove any chalking present. I would then recommend using our Loxon XP for this application. It is a higher quality product than the elastomeric coatings. This product does not require a primer, can go over previously coated surfaces and can be formulated to virtually any color. It can be subject to fading on sides of the house that are exposed to excessive sunlight. Pick a lighter color to avoid this from happening.
"

So I think I am going to go with contractor #3 for this job.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description: