Issues with new paint & primer in one

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Old 07-28-14, 08:26 AM
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Question Issues with new paint & primer in one

I'm painting (or trying to) a set of bi-fold doors to match my kitchen trim. I ran out of the can of touch up paint I had. I took the old can to where I bought it and asked for a new can, color match. The problem is they don't make just a trim and woodwork paint anymore. The guy told me that the new stuff, this paint and primer mix was the same and could be used on trim. I started with BIN primer because there were knots. I sanded it down and started to paint. I also bought a new 1 1/2" angled Wooster brush. This paint (Valspar Ultra) drags something terrible and leaves huge brush marks, before you can go over it to smooth it out, the stuff is already starting to dry. Going over it only makes it worse. It doesn't cure either. I pained some boards and after a week of drying stacked them together to move them. 2 days later I came back and they were all stuck together. When I tried to pull them apart, the paint stuck together to the point of yanking hunks off. I went back to the store and complained, they told me to take it up with Valspar, they don't make it they just sell it.
Is there some other brand of paint that doesn't have a primer in it? Something that flows on smooth? I sanded the whole thing down again (for the 3rd time). I also want to be able to use the same paint when I get around to building and painting the cabinets.
I also want to paint the top of the kitchen table I built. I primed it, then got the bright idea of having the BIN tinted and using it for a top coat. When I give it a light sanding with 400 grit paper, the tint sands off and it ends up white???? Why doesn't it stay tinted? BIN sands down to a baby smooth surface and is easily washed. With the problems I ran into with the trim paint on the bi-fold I don't want to use that stuff.
 
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Old 07-28-14, 08:48 AM
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You'll always find better coatings at your local paint store [just stay away from their bargain basement coatings]

IMO primer in paint is more a marketing ploy than anything else! Generally no primer is needed when repainting and when a primer is needed, a dedicated primer specific for the job at hand is best.

The paint not flowing right can be helped by thinning it some but not drying right is another thing! Latex enamels are always prone to sticking [blocking] with the lower quality enamels being worse than the top of the line latex enamels. I'd highly recommend using a waterborne enamel, they dry almost as hard as oil base [means they were well] won't yellow like oil base white enamels do, dry relatively fast and cleans up with soap and water.

I don't know that I've ever had any pigmented shellac tinted but while it's a great primer it is not intended to be used as a top coat!
 
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Old 07-28-14, 12:57 PM
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Thanks Mark
On the table top; what can I use that will have durable smooth finish? It's a kitchen table so you have to know somebody is going to spill something on it. (It's an off white) I thought about putting a thin sheet of plexiglass on it, but I still want the finish smooth (no brush marks). Who makes a GOOD waterborne enamel? Can it be color matched?
Using the BIN for the topcoat was a shot in the dark. That sands off smooth as glass.
IMO; putting the primer in with the finish coat is what is making the job look like crap. I sent Valspar an e-mail yesterday, still haven't gotten any response.
George
 
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Old 07-28-14, 01:11 PM
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Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore tend to be the paint manufacturers that get the most praise around here. I was a die-hard BM guy for a while but I've moved and SWP is what's in the area so I'm slowly making the transition.

Keep in mind most manufacturers have different lines and I wouldn't use anyone's bottom of the line paint.
 
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Old 07-28-14, 02:40 PM
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IMO SWP's ProClassic waterborne enamel is the best residential enamel I've ever used. It can be tinted to match most any competitors colors [they may need a sample] While I've not used BM's waterborne enamel, I'd have confidence in it being a quality enamel.

While I don't recall ever applying waterborne enamel to a table top it should preform well. I have on occasion painted tops with oil base enamels and that will work well but whites will yellow some as it ages.
 
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Old 07-28-14, 03:49 PM
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I think I can get access to both. Our local hardware carries SW, not sure if it's enamel, but I can take a run up there tomorrow and see. I tend not to trust their advice. They hire a bunch of kids who probably never picked up a paint brush other than to put it on the shelf . They do ok mixing it, but knowing one paint from another, well.....
It's hard to find any place that has people who really know their paint. We used to have a SW store about 10 miles from me, but they went out of business.
I assume I can use the enamel over the BIN (shellac base)??
 
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Old 07-29-14, 04:07 AM
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Most any type of paint including enamels can be applied over BIN.

As far as I know, SWP only sells 2 different lines [in 3 different sheens] of interior waterborne enamel. The ProClassic is their best [and original] waterborne enamel [it also comes in oil base] According to the flyers I get in the mail, they now offer waterborne in their ProMar 200 line although I've not used it. I have used both the oil base and latex enamels in the 200 line and they are decent paints but I wouldn't trust the 200 latex enamel to be tough enough for a table top.

If you want, check out exactly what SWP paint the hardware store offers and post back here and we can let you know if it would be appropriate for your job.
 
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Old 07-29-14, 02:15 PM
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Hi Mark
I went up to the hardware this morning and picked up a can of the SW ProClassic waterborne enamel. I painted the top this morning I LOVE IT!!! It does take a full 30 days to fully cure though. That is going to be the down side. I told the wife I'd put everything in except the table and we can use the old table for that month. (This was a "Mother's Day" project that got out of hand.) The color match isn't exact but it's so close that unless you told someone they'd never notice it.
Thanks for your help, appreciate it. Still haven't heard from Valspar.
George
 
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Old 07-29-14, 03:54 PM
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While it doesn't hurt to play it safe, I doubt you have to wait the entire 30 days.
Back when I first started using ProClassic waterborne enamel I had sprayed all the doors in one house [sprayed them all in one room] and somebody came by and opened the exterior doors and didn't close them back. I didn't catch it until after a gust of wind came in and knocked down a bunch of the doors. I was pleasantly surprised that 24 hrs later I could sand out all the grit from the fresh paint. The fact that it dried that quick and hard finished selling me on that paint!
 
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Old 07-29-14, 06:04 PM
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I knew there was something else I wanted to ask you. The can doesn't specify if I need to sand between coats> If yes what grit?
When it dried there are a couple of spots I missed and I have some brush marks on the edges I want to deal with.
 
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Old 07-30-14, 04:43 AM
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You should always sand between coats! What grit paper to use depends on what's being sanded. Obviously the coarser the grit the more it will remove but if you go too coarse the sanding scratches may show. 120 grit is the coarsest you can use and generally not see the sanding scratches, 220 is the finest you need for residential work. I'm guessing that 150 or 180 grit would be best for what you need.
 
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Old 07-30-14, 01:25 PM
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Thanks again.
I found I can get the old paint that won't set (the Valspar) off by using straight ammonia on a rag and a scraper. Wet it, scrape it, wash it, a lite sanding and I should be good. Testing the theory on some of the backs. I decided to repaint the whole thing. I don't like the idea that the Valspar is staying soft. It sticks to anything you lay it on. I just put a brand new floor in the kitchen. I'd be a dead man if I ever got paint on it.:NO NO NO:
I usually use 220, wasn't sure if I should go finer because of the enamel. The can doesn't say a thing about in between coats. I still love this paint though.
 
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Old 07-30-14, 02:11 PM
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Normally there is no need for sandpaper finer than 220 grit with residential painting. Finer than 220 is usually done with wet sanding and is needed for painting smooth metal with a shiny paint - like a car body.
 
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Old 08-01-14, 07:02 AM
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I'm glad they have this forum, your certainly have been a wealth of information. I'm busy now trying to get that Valspar that won't dry off of the rest of the set. That should keep me busy for a good week.
 
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