Spraying interior doors
#1
05-29-15, 07:26 AM
Spraying interior doors
I've been slowly working on painting the wood trim in my house white.
I've now gotten to the point I'm ready to start on the doors. The doors are six panel with a smooth finish. For the trim I've been using zinsser 123 primer and SW proclassic both the latex and waterbased alkyd.
I tried to do the back side of one of the doors using the same methods but proclassic doesn't have much of an open time and I cannot seem to get a good finish on these doors. I've rolled with both mohair and foam rollers but it still leave roller stipple with proclassic. I tried to backbrush but proclassic has such a short open time I get brush strokes instead of stipple.
So now I think I'm going to try spraying these with an airless sprayer. I'll be doing 10 doors for now but will eventually be doing the upstairs which has 14 doors so spraying should save some time.
I'm looking at the graco truecoat plus 2 as I'm not sure if I want to mess with extra setup and cleaning of one of the larger units. I was planning on using zinsser bin primer since I'll be taking the doors off and doing this in the garage.
However the instructions for the graco say not to use any primer that says flammable on the can. What would be a recommended primer that is not flammable?
I've now gotten to the point I'm ready to start on the doors. The doors are six panel with a smooth finish. For the trim I've been using zinsser 123 primer and SW proclassic both the latex and waterbased alkyd.
I tried to do the back side of one of the doors using the same methods but proclassic doesn't have much of an open time and I cannot seem to get a good finish on these doors. I've rolled with both mohair and foam rollers but it still leave roller stipple with proclassic. I tried to backbrush but proclassic has such a short open time I get brush strokes instead of stipple.
So now I think I'm going to try spraying these with an airless sprayer. I'll be doing 10 doors for now but will eventually be doing the upstairs which has 14 doors so spraying should save some time.
I'm looking at the graco truecoat plus 2 as I'm not sure if I want to mess with extra setup and cleaning of one of the larger units. I was planning on using zinsser bin primer since I'll be taking the doors off and doing this in the garage.
However the instructions for the graco say not to use any primer that says flammable on the can. What would be a recommended primer that is not flammable?
#2
05-29-15, 09:23 AM
It's been decades since I read an airless owner's manual but I think they are talking more about pumping gas or other flammable liquids - not solvent base coatings or the solvent needed to wash up the pump. While I don't recall spraying BIN with an airless I have sprayed a lot of pigmented shellac with a Graco 333 yrs ago.
Sometimes it helps to thin the paint slightly when brushing/rolling paints that set up too fast. I have added a little water to the ProClassic waterborne from time to time.
Sometimes it helps to thin the paint slightly when brushing/rolling paints that set up too fast. I have added a little water to the ProClassic waterborne from time to time.
#3
05-29-15, 10:46 AM
Group Moderator
I've sprayed doors with ProClassic before with a Wagner powerpainter, but have always needed to thin the paint slightly with some Floetrol. You have to be pretty fast and watch your coverage in order to not get runs. The Wagners can waste a lot of paint if you're not careful, they put it on so fast.
#4
05-29-15, 10:49 AM
Looking online the owners manual of the graco says if the can mentions flammable do not use it. It also lists that the flash point must be 100F or above, BIN's flash point is 54F. I'm not dead set on BIN but just want to make sure I get something that is going to make a good bond to the doors.
I was in Sherwin Williams today the guy there gave me a bottle of M-1 latex paint extender that has just a splash left in it. I might try this tonight on some wood shelves.
I was in Sherwin Williams today the guy there gave me a bottle of M-1 latex paint extender that has just a splash left in it. I might try this tonight on some wood shelves.
#6
05-29-15, 12:33 PM
They are stained with a glossy surface, sorry I don't anything about wood finishes.
The house was built in 1989 and the trim that I have painted was very dull, like the finish was wearing off but the finish on the doors still look good. The Zinsser 123 adhered to the test door good but I was only using latex since I was working inside and my kids have slight breathing issues.
Since I will probably be working on these in the garage I'm more free on what type of prime to use.
The house was built in 1989 and the trim that I have painted was very dull, like the finish was wearing off but the finish on the doors still look good. The Zinsser 123 adhered to the test door good but I was only using latex since I was working inside and my kids have slight breathing issues.
Since I will probably be working on these in the garage I'm more free on what type of prime to use.
#7
05-29-15, 12:40 PM
I don't trust latex primers to adhere well to poly or varnish. I usually sand the poly, wipe it down with a liquid deglosser and then apply a coat of either oil base primer or BIN before applying paint.
#9
05-29-15, 01:10 PM
It is always a good idea to sand in between coats, that both promotes good adhesion and gives a slick finish by removing/reducing any brush marks or other blemishes in the underlying primer/paint.
#10
06-01-15, 11:52 AM
Ok one more set of questions before I buy the equipment and start on the doors.
I've been reading that clean up of the an airless sprayer can be a nightmare after using oil or shellac based products. It seems that there are several people that do not recommend using the same sprayer for both waterborne and oil products.
I'm thinking now that I may need another sprayer for the oil, will a cheaper HVLP spray work with oil primer? Or what's the chances I can lay down the primer from a rattle can? I see where BIN, cover stain, & kilz original is available in rattle cans.
As a side note I wish I could trust my local Sherwin Williams store information but there knowledge seems questionable at best. I may drive the 1/2 to the Benjamin Moore store to see if they are more knowledgeable
I've been reading that clean up of the an airless sprayer can be a nightmare after using oil or shellac based products. It seems that there are several people that do not recommend using the same sprayer for both waterborne and oil products.
I'm thinking now that I may need another sprayer for the oil, will a cheaper HVLP spray work with oil primer? Or what's the chances I can lay down the primer from a rattle can? I see where BIN, cover stain, & kilz original is available in rattle cans.
As a side note I wish I could trust my local Sherwin Williams store information but there knowledge seems questionable at best. I may drive the 1/2 to the Benjamin Moore store to see if they are more knowledgeable
#11
06-01-15, 01:03 PM
I have 2 airless pumps but only because I needed a back up. I used to do a lot of spraying and couldn't afford to be without an airless [not even for 1 day at times] I've always used the same airless to spray latex, waterborne and oil base primers and paints. I don't recall having sprayed any pigmented shellac thru my pumps but I've sprayed a good bit of it a long time ago as an employee.
You always clean the airless up with whatever the appropriate thinner is. Once clean I always leave paint thinner in the line/pump as a rust preventive .... unless I expect to use the pump again the next day. I've never ever had any issues with switching from one type of coating to another with the same airless. Don't forget to clean the filters! On a commercial type pump there are 3 filters; at the intake, in the manifold and in the gun's handle. I don't know how the homeowner type pumps are set up.
HVLPs do a good job of spraying solvent based coatings although they are a good bit slower than an airless.
You always clean the airless up with whatever the appropriate thinner is. Once clean I always leave paint thinner in the line/pump as a rust preventive .... unless I expect to use the pump again the next day. I've never ever had any issues with switching from one type of coating to another with the same airless. Don't forget to clean the filters! On a commercial type pump there are 3 filters; at the intake, in the manifold and in the gun's handle. I don't know how the homeowner type pumps are set up.
HVLPs do a good job of spraying solvent based coatings although they are a good bit slower than an airless.
#12
06-01-15, 03:46 PM
Group Moderator
When I did the trim I didn't bother sanding as the primer layed nice and flat.
I wish I could trust my local Sherwin Williams store information
#13
06-01-15, 04:45 PM
I have 2 airless pumps but only because I needed a back up. I used to do a lot of spraying and couldn't afford to be without an airless [not even for 1 day at times] I've always used the same airless to spray latex, waterborne and oil base primers and paints. I don't recall having sprayed any pigmented shellac thru my pumps but I've sprayed a good bit of it a long time ago as an employee.
You always clean the airless up with whatever the appropriate thinner is. Once clean I always leave paint thinner in the line/pump as a rust preventive .... unless I expect to use the pump again the next day. I've never ever had any issues with switching from one type of coating to another with the same airless. Don't forget to clean the filters! On a commercial type pump there are 3 filters; at the intake, in the manifold and in the gun's handle. I don't know how the homeowner type pumps are set up.
HVLPs do a good job of spraying solvent based coatings although they are a good bit slower than an airless.
You always clean the airless up with whatever the appropriate thinner is. Once clean I always leave paint thinner in the line/pump as a rust preventive .... unless I expect to use the pump again the next day. I've never ever had any issues with switching from one type of coating to another with the same airless. Don't forget to clean the filters! On a commercial type pump there are 3 filters; at the intake, in the manifold and in the gun's handle. I don't know how the homeowner type pumps are set up.
HVLPs do a good job of spraying solvent based coatings although they are a good bit slower than an airless.
I think I might just go with an oil primer...maybe zinsser cover stain or BM fresh start. Is there any specific ones you would recommend?
Last edited by ws6guy; 06-01-15 at 05:03 PM.
#14
06-01-15, 04:59 PM
When I did the trim I didn't bother sanding as the primer layed nice and flat.
Scratch it with your finger nail. How easy does it come off?
I wish I could trust my local Sherwin Williams store information
What are they telling you and why don't you trust it?
Scratch it with your finger nail. How easy does it come off?
I wish I could trust my local Sherwin Williams store information
What are they telling you and why don't you trust it?
I figure the doors will take a lot of abuse with small children so that's why I'm wanting switch to oil or shellac primer. That and the doors still have they're glossy smooth finish where as the trim was worn flat.
I know a couple of the employees at the local SW and it's nothing against them personally but I think I might know more about paint than they do. I believe the just took a short training class and that is it. When I started this project one guy told me all I need was there multi-purpose latex primer and I would be good to go. Now I'm not sure if this primer would've worked any better than the bullseye 123 but he said oil base wouldn't be necessary. I'm not trying to bash SW but they just don't seem very knowledgeable at this location.
#15
06-01-15, 05:08 PM
Group Moderator
Yep, that's not very good advice. You pretty much need to ask for a manager if you want good dependable advice.
#16
06-02-15, 04:06 AM
I think I might just go with an oil primer...maybe zinsser cover stain or BM fresh start. Is there any specific ones you would recommend?
I know a couple of the employees at the local SW ......... but I think I might know more about paint than they do. I believe the just took a short training class and that is it.
Whenever I have a question that either the regular help can't answer or I know it's beyond them - I ask the paint rep as he should be the most knowledgeable paint guy at the store [if he's there] otherwise the manager or long term sales guy/gal is best.
#17
06-26-15, 04:00 PM
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@OP, what are you going to do about the spots/area that you can scrap primer off with your fingernail? I am having a bigger issue like this with my fiberglass door and will post in a separate thread.
You have a lot of doors to do so I understanding about finding a way to paint/spray a door in one shot. I am repainting a front door so I want to do a good job and also that is what God said "do as unto the LORD."
I had similar results as you described when I tried to either use a roller or a brush or combination to paint a six panel door. I couldn't maintain a wet edge unless I paint really fast but I usually messed up on some are but decided to live with it.
I recently watched a youtube video and the person using a brush, painted the panels and inlays (and door edges) first and feather, let dry and then painted the horizontal and vertical stiles. This is what I am trying to follow but then I was able to scrap off some primer. This is where I am at now.
So, the above procedure would probably get good results. But you have so many doors to do.
May God Bless your work and let it prosper.
You have a lot of doors to do so I understanding about finding a way to paint/spray a door in one shot. I am repainting a front door so I want to do a good job and also that is what God said "do as unto the LORD."
I had similar results as you described when I tried to either use a roller or a brush or combination to paint a six panel door. I couldn't maintain a wet edge unless I paint really fast but I usually messed up on some are but decided to live with it.
I recently watched a youtube video and the person using a brush, painted the panels and inlays (and door edges) first and feather, let dry and then painted the horizontal and vertical stiles. This is what I am trying to follow but then I was able to scrap off some primer. This is where I am at now.
So, the above procedure would probably get good results. But you have so many doors to do.
May God Bless your work and let it prosper.
#18
08-17-15, 07:29 AM
Things are going a lot slower than I expected, it's hard to get the job done with little kids occupying so much time
Anyway all of the trim and walls are painted. Now I'm left with the doors that are still a glossy varnish. I'm going to try and experiment on one door with a foam roller to see if I get around having to spray them. I see that BM has an oil based underbody primer #217. It's supposed to lay down smooth and flat but does anyone know if will bond well to varnish? I don't have BM store near buy to ask but there is ACE hardware that carries their products.
Anyway all of the trim and walls are painted. Now I'm left with the doors that are still a glossy varnish. I'm going to try and experiment on one door with a foam roller to see if I get around having to spray them. I see that BM has an oil based underbody primer #217. It's supposed to lay down smooth and flat but does anyone know if will bond well to varnish? I don't have BM store near buy to ask but there is ACE hardware that carries their products.
#19
08-17-15, 07:38 AM
Group Moderator
A foam roller is about the worst thing you can possibly use since it puts air into the paint you will probably have a mess of air bubbles. A 1/4" nap or mohair roller would be better if you were trying that route. In all truthfulness, you will have better sucess with a brush. Or roll it on and quickly tip it off with a brush.
#20
08-17-15, 08:05 AM
That makes since, I had that happen years ago when I painted an exterior door, I just didn't know why I got a lot of tiny bubbles.
Maybe I got lucking this weekend when I used a foam roller on some bookshelves. I used 123+ primer and the same PC water based Alkyd and the finish turned out pretty good. There is a slight orange peel look which I think was mostly do to the primer. I was thinking if I could improve on this orange peel just a little it I might get buy with rolling the doors instead of turning my garage in to a paint both to use the sprayer.
I did try a short nap mohair roll from SW before and it left quite a bit of texture so I'm not going to try that again on the doors.
Maybe I got lucking this weekend when I used a foam roller on some bookshelves. I used 123+ primer and the same PC water based Alkyd and the finish turned out pretty good. There is a slight orange peel look which I think was mostly do to the primer. I was thinking if I could improve on this orange peel just a little it I might get buy with rolling the doors instead of turning my garage in to a paint both to use the sprayer.
I did try a short nap mohair roll from SW before and it left quite a bit of texture so I'm not going to try that again on the doors.
#21
08-17-15, 12:46 PM
I haven't used a 1/4" mohair cover in a long time but while it is the preferred cover for rolling flat doors, it will leave a roller stipple behind. On some jobs that can be acceptable but not for all. If you want to use a roller and not have any roller stipple you need to 'tip off' the rolled paint with a brush. Basically that means take the tip of the brush and lightly brush over the wet rolled paint eliminating the roller stipple.
I also detest a foam roller cover.
I also detest a foam roller cover.
#22
09-12-15, 09:04 AM
I've finally got back to this project this week
I chose to go with using an airless sprayer. Things are going pretty good but i have one issue.
Since I'm new to spraying I decided to lay the door horizontal. The issue I'm have I believe I'm getting dried over spray on the finish coat which is causing a rough texture. So far I've only done the backsides of the doors but I would like to fix this before I get started in the fronts.
Any ideas?? I'm going to try and turn down the pressure a little to see if that helps, besides that I don't know what else to do.
Thanks,
Nate
I chose to go with using an airless sprayer. Things are going pretty good but i have one issue.
Since I'm new to spraying I decided to lay the door horizontal. The issue I'm have I believe I'm getting dried over spray on the finish coat which is causing a rough texture. So far I've only done the backsides of the doors but I would like to fix this before I get started in the fronts.
Any ideas?? I'm going to try and turn down the pressure a little to see if that helps, besides that I don't know what else to do.
Thanks,
Nate
#23
09-12-15, 09:07 AM
Any way you can stand the doors up to spray? I suspect with the door laying flat the overspray in the air is settling on the wet paint causing the roughness. How many doors are you spraying? where are you spraying them?
#24
09-12-15, 09:20 AM
I'm only doing 8 doors right now. I setup a shift paint both in my garage for this project. I could stand them up but I'm afraid of getting runs or sags since this is my first time spraying.
#26
09-12-15, 10:02 AM
Really not a good way to exhaust outside. I just checked the doors again and there are only 2 doors that are pretty rough. It's the 2 that I started with to check my technique, I sprayed them and let them sit for 30 minutes before starting the rest. The other doors have a slight amount of roughness but really not enough to worry about.
Off to flip the doors and spray the fronts!
Thanks,
Nate
Off to flip the doors and spray the fronts!
Thanks,
Nate
#27
09-12-15, 11:07 AM
A 30 minute wait time between doors will make the overspray issue worse. If overspray falls on wet paint it can somewhat get absorbed by the paint but if the paint is tacky or almost dry it will just lay on top. You should have better results if you spray them one after another.
#28
09-15-15, 06:55 AM
I finished the doors Sunday evening. Below are the pictures. I was planning on doing 2 light coats but ended up doing 1 heavy coat by accident. I went through about 1.5 gallons of paint on 8 doors. I think the finish looks good for a first time sprayer and 28 year old doors.
Do you think one heave coat is sufficient? The coverage is even and smooth. I took down all the plastic but the doors are still in the garage so technically I could do another coat but it would be a pain.
Actually 1 side of one door has 2 coats on it. I had some bleed through on the primer and 1st coat of paint where my wife sanded through the varnish. So I had to spot prime part of the door and do another finish coat. The only difference that I can tell between it and the single coat doors is the edges around the molding isn't as sharp.
Here are the pics, the last 2 are of the finished product.
setup
wet
wet
wet
finish
finish
Do you think one heave coat is sufficient? The coverage is even and smooth. I took down all the plastic but the doors are still in the garage so technically I could do another coat but it would be a pain.
Actually 1 side of one door has 2 coats on it. I had some bleed through on the primer and 1st coat of paint where my wife sanded through the varnish. So I had to spot prime part of the door and do another finish coat. The only difference that I can tell between it and the single coat doors is the edges around the molding isn't as sharp.
Here are the pics, the last 2 are of the finished product.
setup
wet
wet
wet
finish
finish
#30
09-15-15, 11:43 AM
Yea they dried good. It took probably took 2 hours to dry to the touch. 24 hours later when I was standing them back up they paint felt "soft". I might try to hang them tonight so I can trim extra material off the door stops. There are a few doors that close very tight on the hinge side after I painted the jams. I have tiny planner that makes it easy to remove some wood from the stops.
