Sherwin Williams exterior paint choice, Florida

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Old 10-17-15, 07:12 AM
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Sherwin Williams exterior paint choice, Florida

I already did a search on this and did not find anything recent. SW has several exterior paint choices. Emerald, duration, super paint and A100.

I like SW, the store is close and right now they have a 40% off sale. I am not going to paint for a month or so, but have till Monday to buy paint at 40% off. So really not a lot of time to research this.

Which one might be my best choice for painting a stucco exterior with aluminum trim in Florida. Everything including the aluminum trim already has at least one coat of paint on it in good condition.

I have a sprayer available, but will likely roll and brush. Any other questions I should be asking? Jim
 
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Old 10-17-15, 07:56 AM
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While any of those should do a good job, generally the better the paint, the longer it will last AND if you consider the labor - the extra coating cost is minimal. I like the SuperPaint, both how it applies and preforms. I've only used a little Duration and don't think I've used the Emerald. A-100 is good paint but superpaint is better.

Prep is key on any paint job! All chalk must be either washed off or be chemically binded. Paint will not adhere long term to chalk! There are oil base masonry sealers that work well or you can add Flood's Emulsa Bond to the 1st coat of latex.
 
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Old 10-17-15, 12:20 PM
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1st coat of latex?? That is not very encouraging.

There are lots of rave reviews on the Emerald, but I am not using it. Too many think a new expensive product is the best. Also says a quick flash, not good for a pokey old man.

I am between the Duration and Super Paint. Duration has good reviews and goes on thicker than Super paint but I have a very heavy texture stucco and I suspect I cannot cover in one coat anyway. So the second coat of Super paint would give me about the same thickness. If I need a second coat? The body of the house will be SW Doeskin #SW6044 over white, going by a paint can I found in the attic, I suspect the white was a gloss white when applied. some off brand I have never heard of.

While I mull this over I will have to read up on Emulsa Bond as the paint on my house is chalky. I am aware that prep is 80% of a good paint job.

Thanks for the quick response. Have many more questions, but for now need to buy the paint at 40% off. Jim SW FL
 
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Old 10-17-15, 12:25 PM
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My only experience with Emerald is on wood siding. Don't know about durability yet, but it goes on beautifully. It goes on thick, and coverage was 200-250 sq feet a gallon, which at $79 list per gallon makes it very expensive, even when buying at 40% off. But as marksr said, the labor is the big factor. I've used a lot of Superpaint too, and agree with marksr that it's good paint as well. plus it's been around for ages and has a good track record; Emerald is fairly new.
 
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Old 10-17-15, 12:26 PM
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Stucco covers well so you might only need one coat. EB is formulated in a way that works well on the 1st coat of paint [or latex primer] but shouldn't be added to 2nd. How much EB to add depends on how bad the chalk is.

I'd wash the house with a bleach/water solution and TSP, let it set but not dry and then rinse with a pressure washer. [be careful around windows/doors and the soffit] That should remove some [maybe most] of the chalk.

CT - are you trying to make me feel old I always looked at SuperPaint as one of SWP's newer coatings. I always thought A-100 was good paint until they came out with super paint 20 [?] yrs ago.
 
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Old 10-17-15, 01:12 PM
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Bearing in mind I have not done any exterior painting in a looong time I am surprised you say that stucco covers very well. This is a very heavy texture, not smooth. Not disagreeing, I wont be an expert on stucco till I am done with house.

A tidbit of info, the SW paint calculator does not compensate for different paint coverage's! Showed me the same amount for Emerald and Super Paint.
JIm
 
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Old 10-17-15, 03:57 PM
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That would be the pot calling the kettle black! I prefer to think of it as extra time to have accumulated wisdom
 
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Old 10-17-15, 04:05 PM
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jj: Keep in mind that SW has a 30 or 40% sale at least once a month, often twice a month or around holidays. And they will generally tell you when the next sale is going to be if you ask. Since I was painting part time and at my snails pace, I bought 5 gallons to start. By the time the next sale came around, I had a good idea of what coverage I was getting and bought the rest.

Remember to intermix gallons so you don't get any color shift...I generally put 3 gallons in a 5 gallon pail and then add another as I used one.
 
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Old 10-17-15, 04:13 PM
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Rough surfaces tend to cover better than slick surfaces because the paint doesn't go as far. Basically you can apply the paint heavier without danger of runs. I typically slop the paint onto the stucco and then as the roller starts to run out of paint - go back and reroll it wiping out any runs and dressing it up.

With today's computer mixing of the paint [and the machines are re calibrated on a regular basis] it's rare for 1 gallon not to match the next. While it isn't a great idea to open and add the next gallon in the middle of a wall, it's no big deal to add or even switch gallons when you get to the next wall. Not like it was years ago where you needed to intermix all the paint before you started.

The coverage chart is based on the substrate being the same. While you might get 400 sq ft per gallon on smooth wood you won't get anywhere near that on rough stucco.
 
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Old 10-17-15, 08:40 PM
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Thanks for all the responses, greatly appreciated. The only other thing I should know now is how thick a nap for the roller covers and or preferred cover for stucco. Might as well get them while they are 30% off.


MIght as well ask one more while I have your attention. I have access to a decent airless sprayer. I have not used an airless in ??? oh boy, 30 years? Are you guys pro or con on airless?

This is tourist/Snow bird season in Florida, are you sure they will have 40% off every month?
Jim
 
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Old 10-18-15, 03:42 AM
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I normally use 1"-1.5" nap on stucco. A heavier nap holds more paint and between dressing the applied paint up with a semi dry roller and the rough texture the roller stipple isn't noticed. An airless can speed things up but you still need to back roll so the paint gets worked into all the crevices and doesn't just lay on top. That gives both a better looking and longer lasting paint job. Spraying doesn't always save time. Often the time spent covering up and cleaning up negates any time saved on application. You also must be mindful of where the overspray might go!

I don't know much about SWP's sale prices as they don't apply to commercial accounts
 
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Old 10-18-15, 06:00 AM
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Well that's a good point...I'm in NE ohio, so it could be different there. I'd ask at the store if they know when the next sale will be.
 
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Old 10-18-15, 11:45 AM
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Picked up paint and asked, they will not have another 40% off sale till April. But will have several 30% off sales between now and then.

Bought two box of TSP, how can TSP be phosphate free? Modern life is so confusing!

Jim
 
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Old 10-19-15, 03:59 AM
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I had forgotten that Fla banned phosphates. Not sure how TSP can be made without phosphates, assume there must be some type of substitute.
 
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Old 10-22-15, 05:42 PM
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Color me confused. Every body sells TSP with phosphates except SW.

I talked with an acquaintance that is a pro painter here in SW FL. I asked him which line of SW paint he uses.

He replied that he does not use SW. There is a paint manufactured locally formulated for FL called Povia. He prefers it to all others.
Jim
 
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Old 10-22-15, 07:24 PM
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Now I'm confused, looking for somewhere to purchase EB and noticed on the website.


Not recommended for use in painting
stucco surfaces I have a stucco house? Jim
 
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Old 10-23-15, 04:03 AM
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I just went to Flood's website and see where they don't recommend EB for stucco I have no idea why. I've used EB many times with the 1st coat of latex on stucco repaints. Ideally you'd wash off the chalk while prepping the house but chalk doesn't always cooperate. If the chalk residue is heavy, I prefer to spray on an oil base masonry binder [it's a little cheaper] but have used a 50/50 mixture of EB and latex paint or primer occasionally. I normally use a 10-25% EB mixture [dependent on the level of chalkiness]

I'm not familiar with Povia. I used to live/paint in central fla and Color Wheel Paints [manufactured in Orlando] had decent low cost coatings [provided you didn't get their cheapest] Sometimes local brands can be superior but you'd need to know if he prefers it mostly because of quality or if the price is the determining factor.
 
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Old 10-23-15, 08:25 AM
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Talking

Caught me by surprise also, I'm painting over paint, not raw stucco. I'm sure they must of had issues with stucco or it would not be on their website.

Judging by the painters personality I suspect he uses the Povia as he believes it is a superior product.

He mentioned a clear bonding agent he uses for prepping, but I lost his attention before we got to brand or where to buy.

I am getting this together have the paint, the bleach, the tools, have a power washer on order and will pick up some TSP my next trip to the big box store.

I have decided to use a sealer/bonder before painting, now I need to know what would be a good choice. SW has something at $40 gallon, not sure it would be best? And do not know when I will be able to chat with painter again.

Jim
 
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Old 10-23-15, 08:51 AM
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I emailed Flood and got a response. They say it's ok to use EB over old or painted stucco but not new stucco as the PH is too high with new stucco. Me thinks they could have stated that on their website

The clear bonding agent is probably a masonry sealer. It's best applied by spray. I haven't used any since I moved from fla 25 yrs ago. There isn't as much stucco here and the sun isn't as intense. IMO it's best to use a masonry sealer especially if there is a lot of chalk. Adding a sufficient amount of EB to latex is 2nd best. I usually use EB when the chalk isn't bad. Painting directly over chalk is an invitation for paint failure.
 
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Old 10-29-15, 07:35 PM
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After reading on the EB and that it does not seem to be available locally, I have decided not to use it.

Reading on the net is confusing as I am not sure when they are explaining how to prep stucco, they do not make clear if it is unpainted or painted stucco they are talking about.

They talk about chalk, and say if it is heavy it must be cleaned off and or sealed. But there is no definition of heavy.

So to be safe I would like to seal/bond the chalk. Now the real confusion begins. There are 50 different products available locally. They are not real clear if they are for new stucco or previously painted stucco. I asked at SW and they recommended Luxon at $40 gal! I asked at Lowes and they recommend a Valspar product at $62 for 5 gal.

Anyone in Florida that knows which is best to use? Jim
 
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Old 10-30-15, 03:26 AM
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Chalk comes from oxidized paint - where the weather has deteriorated the existing paint. You've probably seen houses where the paint peeled within a year or three of being repainted - not removing or sealing the chalk is normally the cause. With the intense fla sun chalk can happen with the cheap coatings within a few years. Here in tenn it almost has to be a neglected paint job before it becomes a big issue.

I haven't used any of the masonry sealers since I moved from fla 25 yrs ago. I don't remember the brand names but everyone I ever used was a clear oil base liquid best applied by spray as it was fairly thin. Oil base primers will also work. I like EB because it can be added to the 1st [sometimes only] coat of paint. Which Loxon coating are you looking at? Generally the folks at any local paint store are better trained than those in any store's paint dept.
 
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Old 10-31-15, 12:41 PM
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I am not going to look at the Luxon, I find it hard to believe it is worth what they are charging for it.

I do not remember if I mentioned it? My house was painted with gloss or semi gloss paint last time and is still shiny in any protected areas. So the clear bonders you mentioned might be best, still reading on it.

25 years and you don't remember, likely names and formulas have changed so we can overlook that little lapse in memory : )

Thanks for the responses, greatly appreciated. Jim
 
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Old 10-31-15, 02:29 PM
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Have you checked here to see if EB is available near you - Wood Staining | Stain Products | Flood
 
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Old 10-31-15, 06:47 PM
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I had checked a bit and it does not appear to be stocked locally. There must be a reason it is not stocked?

They do carry the Flood Flowtrol.
Jim
 
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Old 11-01-15, 03:31 AM
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I don't know why they wouldn't carry it especially considering how the intense fla sun affects paint. While I've noticed some big box stores will carry EB but not Floetrol or vice versus, every paint store I've traded with has always carried both.
 
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Old 11-03-15, 11:36 AM
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Wal Mart and Home Depot show EB on their website but do not stock it. Out of curiosity I contacted 4 paint stores Color Wheel, SW, Povia and Scott only Scott stocks EB. Jim
 
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Old 11-03-15, 12:13 PM
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I used to work for an outfit that used a lot of Color Wheel paint. Color Wheel has been known to take competitor's products and have their chemist break it down and then they would come up with their version of that product with just a few modifications to make it legal ..... so why Color Wheel might not stock EB, they may have something very similar with their brand on the container.
 
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Old 11-10-15, 05:29 PM
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Had an opportunity to chat with painting company acquaintance. He recommended H&C chalk bonder for my job. Also told me to use his name when I buy it.
Jim
 
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Old 11-11-15, 04:04 AM
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Not sure if I've used H&C chalk binder but it sounds a like it would be similar to the masonry binder/sealers I've used in the past. I have used a lot of H&C concrete stains and they are a quality coating.
 
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Old 11-11-15, 05:14 AM
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Jim & Mark, thanks for a very informative thread. I'm right up the road from you, Jim, and will be painting in the Spring (stucco over block), so everything in in the thread applies. Great info on the bonding agent, Mark; I probably would have missed doing that. FWIW I've been offered free use of a sprayer, but have decided the time spent covering windows, etc. would negate any advantage. Hadn't thought about the paint needing to be worked in.

John
 
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Old 11-11-15, 07:37 AM
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John, your invited to my painting party! Heck your all invited.

I checked a bunch of you tube videos and they are all using sprayers. As I drive around all I see is painters spraying houses. Are they back rolling, I have not seen it?

I have been able to talk to 2 local guys who seem knowledgeable and they both recommend rolling.

I am rather slow and will take my time painting, if I had my druthers I would do one side a year! So cleaning up a sprayer everyday will eat up a bunch of time.

Which leads me to another question. Maybe I should post it separate? Is it OK with this new latex paint to wrap a roller with aluminum foil and keep in refrigerator overnight, instead of cleaning everyday?? Expiring minds need to know.
Jim
 
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Old 11-11-15, 12:21 PM
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While there are those that will spray stucco and not back roll - that isn't the correct way to do it. Back rolling both makes for a better looking and longer lasting paint job. Most of the masonry binder/sealers I've used were thin and best applied by spray [no back roll needed] Spraying can save time BUT you always need to be mindful of where the overspray will go! Besides protecting the unpainted portions of the house you need to make sure it doesn't get on automobiles or anything else outside, especially the neighbor's property.

If I use a brush for the better part of a day - I want to clean it so I have a nice clean brush to use the next day however wrapping a brush tightly in plastic will prevent the paint from drying overnight, setting the wrapped brush in the fridge will make it last for several days. The same can be done for the roller. I've never used aluminum foil but suppose it would work as long as it can be sealed tight enough to keep the air out. I normally just use a plastic shopping bag.
 
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Old 11-11-15, 01:37 PM
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I'm with you on the slow & steady approach, Jim. I have the month of April set aside for my job. I figure one side a week.
 
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Old 11-11-15, 02:32 PM
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Thanks Mark, Somewhere in the recesses of my mind lurks the the thought that aluminum foil does not breath like plastic does, so the brush/roller keeps better? I like the clean brush also, unlike a brush a roller takes some time and effort to clean! We use to put rollers in freezer, but I think latex paint is not suppose to allowed to freeze?

Use to have some gizmos for storing and cleaning rollers years ago. I will have to start poking around on the net looking for clean up tips and ideas.

1 side a week, that's for they the young type A's : ) Jim
 
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Old 11-11-15, 03:02 PM
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Wrapping a brush that has paint in it works by depriving the paint of oxygen. It's easy to tightly wrap a brush/roller with plastic. I have no experience using tin foil but if it can wrap tightly - it should work also. Tools covered with solvent based coatings can be stuck in the freezer but latex coatings can not! Wrapped tools will generally keep overnight without refrigeration [may not work well in hot or sunny conditions] but will keep several days when placed in a fridge. The tighter the wrap is applied the better/longer this will work.

I've always preferred lambswool covers as they are easier to clean and IMO disperse the paint better. They can't take as much abuse as the synthetic covers and will wear out quicker if not kept well lubricated with paint. I prefer to clean rollers outside with a garden hose. I'll scrape off the excess paint with a putty knife, then juke the roller up and down in a bucket of water and then finish by using water pressure to spin the roller. That both removes the last of the paint and most of the water.

I couldn't imagine spending a week painting a house I like to get it over with and on to the next job/project
 
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Old 11-11-15, 05:11 PM
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I get up in the morning with good intentions, then someone calls and wants to go for coffee. By the time that is over it is time for my nap, then it is too late in the day to start anything.

Next thing you know a month has gone by, one side of the house is painted and it is time for a vacation.

What amazes me is how I managed to get anything done when I had to earn a living at the same time, mind boggling.
Jim
 
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Old 11-12-15, 03:40 AM
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We were younger when we were still working every day I used to always get an early start but now often wait for the dew to burn off or the sun to warm things up. Biggest problem I have is running out of energy before the day/job is done
 
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Old 11-12-15, 04:24 AM
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Pencil me in for second weekend in April, Mark; I'll even buy your plane ticket.
 
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Old 11-12-15, 04:32 AM
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You did read my last sentence, right?

My wife would kill me if I left to work elsewhere with her never ending 'honey do' list
 
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Old 12-10-15, 01:39 PM
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Me again My painter contact told me to go to Sherwin Williams and buy H&C Microtite chalk bonder for my stucco and aluminum.

The house is CBS and there is some new white gloss aluminum drip edge, new white gutters and an old aluminum shed, that needs to be painted.

The H&C says for concrete, masonary and stucco, nothing about metal. I looked all over the web and there is nothing on H&C chalk bonder.

Will this be ok for the aluminum? I wont be able to ask the painter till later next week and would like to start this weekend
Jim
 
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