Yet another "painting my kitchen cabinets" thread. Just looking for more info.

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Old 04-10-17, 03:01 PM
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Yet another "painting my kitchen cabinets" thread. Just looking for more info.

My house was built in 1994 and has stained wood cabinets and trim throughout the house. I loved all the wood when I bought the house, but the kitchen now looks terribly dated, and I am just completely tired of the look. Since I keep oohing and ahhhing at white kitchens, I've decided that I am going to give mine a much-needed makeover.

I've done some research of course, but now have a few questions. I should mention that I did redo my 2 bathrooms - one many years ago, the other about a year ago; both had vanities of the same stained wood. I did not do any prep other than a light cleaning of the exterior surfaces, and I used Kilz, and the best quality of the Behr primer+paint, in white. I think the paint was a satin - I will have to check my old paint cans to be sure. I was very happy with the results, both cabinets still look very nice.

Everything I have read about painting kitchen cabinets has this whole multi-step process that, I suppose, is due to the higher use/dirt factor of the kitchen.
1) Clean all surfaces with a degreaser/good cleaner.
2) Use a deglosser (wipe it off thoroughly with a clean wet cloth) This is new to me - definitely did not do this in the bathrooms and the paint looks fine. Is this just a extra step for certain finishes?.
3) Prime with a good primer (I will use Zinsser Bullseye 123)
4) Pick out a paint (CabinetCoat? Or just a good paint + primer?) Satin? Semi-gloss? What is best for an easy-clean surface?
5) Paint cabinets/doors, let dry
6) Clear coat. Is this necessary?? Wouldn't this make it more difficult for any touch-ups needed later?


The red shows my questions about what I have read online. Appreciate the advice!
 
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Old 04-10-17, 03:12 PM
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I like to sand the varnished wood and then wipe away the sanding dust using a liquid deglosser. That will remove the sanding dust along with softening the varnish/poly for a short period of time helping the primer bond better to the old finish.

I always use a solvent based primer, either oil base or pigmented shellac. For white and light colors it's best to use latex or waterborne enamel as oil base enamel will yellow over time. I'm partial to waterborne enamel as it dries to almost as hard a finish as oil base does. There can be big difference between the cheap latex enamels and the better grades of latex. The cheap latex enamels are prone to chip and peel even if proper prep was done.

No need for a clear coat! just use a quality enamel [any sheen - your preference]

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/pa...t-repaint.html
 
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Old 04-10-17, 03:12 PM
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2. I would scuff sand instead of deglossing.
3. I would use an oil based primer for this but Zinsser is a good brand.
4. Good paint - yes. Nothing with 'primer in it' should be considered, IMO. Waterborne enamel would be my choice if you're painting white (BM Impervo or SWP Pro-Classic)
6. Nope, good paint is sufficient.
 
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Old 04-10-17, 05:02 PM
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You can't go wrong with the advice given, but check out this cabinet refinishing kit:
Rust-Oleum Transformations Light Color Cabinet Kit (9-Piece)-258109 - The Home Depot

I have seen homeowners get professional results using this paint kit. I Personally like the dark kit over the light.
 
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Old 04-10-17, 08:00 PM
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Thanks. I should have stated that I want to avoid sanding if possible. I have a LOT of cabinets, seriously. Also, there will be more to this project than just the cabinets. I'm exhausted just thinking about it. I guess I am thinking that sanding will be a much more time-consuming method than the deglossing. ?? I am not going to consider using anything that does not allow soap and water cleanup. What exactly is "waterborne" enamel?

Yeah that horrible wallpaper will be going, but that will be after the cabinets and the molding. Windows too. Man someone really loved the wood look when they built this house.
 
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Old 04-10-17, 08:32 PM
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I'm not in love with the soffit, but your doors look worth saving and a applying a good paint job.
The doors are solid raised panel, probably pine. I would consider new Blum compact euro hinges and new paint grade drawer fronts. The drawer fronts can be ordered to size and I would recommend a slab type.

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Old 04-10-17, 08:53 PM
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Thanks Brian - I had not even thought about new drawer fronts - I like that idea. I have 15 drawers though (there is a full desk in the kitchen as well) so I will have to check the prices. I agree - I like the Slab best.

Yes the cabinets are all solid wood, built in place. I too dislike the soffits, but there is no way I am undertaking the job of tearing them out. So they will be painted as well.

Not sure about replacing the hinges, again that would be a pretty big cost - there are 60 hinges. I am planning on cleaning the existing ones (I did this with the ones in my bathroom and they turned out nicely) and spraying them with a nickel finish paint. The hinges are an interesting type - I had posted a thread about them a while back when I was doing the first bathroom.


https://www.amazon.com/Amerock-BP870...ountable+hinge

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Old 04-10-17, 09:33 PM
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I think even if you kept the same hardware and soffit, this kitchen will look good painted.
Everything looks pretty sound and the valance looks nice. I brought up changing any hardware because you want to fill any unwanted holes now, obviously.
Remember, Bondo can be your friend sometimes when painting or refacing.
 
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Old 04-10-17, 09:57 PM
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Old 04-11-17, 04:15 AM
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That appears to be a waterborne enamel although I've never used that particular one. That brand doesn't have the greatest reputation

Nothing beats sanding! It doesn't have to be a heavy duty sanding as just scuffing up the surface is sufficient. Liquid deglosser somewhat takes the place of sanding. I'd be leery of not using a solvent based primer over the existing finish!!
 
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Old 04-11-17, 06:42 AM
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Thanks. Maybe I will go look at Benjamin Moore tomorrow.

As far as the primer, I used a water-based previously, in the bathrooms, and it did just fine. I really prefer to avoid anything not water-based. Just too much work in front of me to be worrying about a messy cleanup.
 
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Old 04-11-17, 09:10 AM
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Why do people bother to ask questions here and then not to follow the advice given by someone (Marksr) who did this kind of work for his entire career?
 
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Old 04-11-17, 10:26 AM
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I have run across a few painters that claim a certain latex primer [I don't recall the name] did fine over oil base enamel or poly. I've never tried it as I know what happens if the primer doesn't bond correctly with the underlying finish and prefer to go with what I know works.

You don't have to clean up your oil base brush/roller each time you stop. Wrapping it tightly in plastic will keep the paint/primer from drying for a day or two. Setting the wrapped tool in the freezer will let it keep for maybe a week. If there isn't any dried paint in the stock and I know I'll use the brush again the next day I usually just wrap it, same with a roller.
 
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Old 04-11-17, 02:06 PM
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Stickshift,
I actually did not ask what kind of primer to use, but of course I appreciate the information. As I already stated, I have used a waterbased primer on this exact surface and it performed quite well. No issues at all. The extra time and mess of an oil-based primer is not worth to me. I have used it in the past, and I swore I would never go there again. I truly DO appreciate all the advice offered here, about the questions that I have asked, and also additional information. It certainly was not my intention to imply that ANYONE here knows less than I do about painting. That would be silly.

I am a single, full-time working gal with a few days off to try and get a good start on this project. I have 30 cabinet fronts, 15 drawers, cabinet facing, plus soffit and trim - I'll be working by myself, so I would like to keep it as simple as possible. By Sunday, I'll probably regret ever starting it. But I want it done, so I'm going to do it.

Again, thanks for the advice.
 
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Old 04-11-17, 02:12 PM
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And since primer has come up, does anyone have any experience with this product?

Grip & Seal Latex Stain Blocker 116, Flat
 
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Old 04-11-17, 03:40 PM
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It's been a long time since I used any Coronado paints but best I remember their coatings seemed to do ok. Latex primers do a poor job of sealing stains, some will seal for a short term but many stains [especially water and nicotine] will bleed thru sooner or later. I have never used that particular primer and can't comment on how it will adhere over your cabinet's finish. I hold fast on recommending a solvent based primer on cabinets .... but then I am an old school painter
 
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Old 04-11-17, 03:48 PM
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Thanks, I appreciate that. I can say for certainty there has been no nicotine at all in this house, thank God. LOL.

Another quick question, boyfriend says he would advise to spray paint these. I don't have a spray painter. Would it be worth it to buy one? Is this really something I could do or is there a big learning curve? I already know how to paint with a brush!

Of course he doesn't care about "mess", as he won't be helping. He's an ex-homebuilder who is now a building inspector; extremely old-school ( so I have nothing but appreciation for that believe me ) but he abhors painting. ��
 

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Old 04-11-17, 10:28 PM
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Well after thinking about it, and then thinking some more...

...I bought the Zinsser BIN. I decided that there was too much at stake here. The bathroom vanities get such a little bit of use, but these kitchen cabinets are a different story. If I went through all the trouble of painting, and then it peeled, I would kick myself 8 ways from Sunday. Looks like I am in hell now, for sure.

 
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Old 04-12-17, 04:48 AM
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BIN is an excellent primer! It does have the strongest odor but seems to dissipate quicker than oil. I don't know how well brush/roller will store when wrapped in plastic as pigmented shellac primer dries a LOT faster.

I have a good bit of spray equipment but I hardly ever spray inside an occupied dwelling. The time it takes to cover everything up [overspray can travel a long way] and then the clean up will usually negate any time saved. If I was to spray - I'd only spray the doors/drawers .... and move them to another location to do so. There is a learning curve associated with spraying! Some catch on quicker than others while a few never seem to. While I usually prefer a brush many diyers like mini rollers as it can speed things up and some are better off leaving a slight roller stipple than brushing in a manner to minimize brush marks.

mini roller example - https://www.lowes.com/pd/WHIZZ-Mini-...or-Kit/3013608
 
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Old 04-12-17, 10:59 AM
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OK thanks. I think I'm definitely going to stick with what I know and use a brush!
 
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Old 04-12-17, 03:06 PM
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I've seen doors brush painted that look as good or better than spraying.
The hard part is keeping a wet edge at all times, You shouldn't go back and try to make the paint look better.
Basically pick a starting point and decide if you want to keep a wet edge to the left or right.
I prefer to start at the right and work left.
If you keep all edges wet the paint will kind of self level and give the desired finish.
 
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Old 04-12-17, 07:55 PM
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Thanks. I went to the local BM store today to figure out what I wanted to go with, thinking for sure I was going to go with Cabinet Coat, and I think the guy talked me into BM Advance. He said it had a more durable finish, and for the kitchen, that's a factor for me.

I think they are probably very close. Of course if I go with that, then I have to choose a finish. Do most people use satin or semi-gloss on kitchen cabinets these days? He said that both would take a good cleaning with no issues.

Oh, and I am sanding. I tried the deglosser, and there just is really no comparison. I can get all the little rough spots with sandpaper, the deglosser doesn't do anything for that. Plus I think it takes longer to use the deglosser.
 

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Old 04-13-17, 04:12 AM
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I almost always sand but then wipe it down with deglosser just prior to applying the primer.
While I have painted a few cabinets with satin, the majority have been with semi-gloss. Any of the 3 sheens [satin, semi and gloss] should be equally durable and washable so it really boils down to your taste.
 
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Old 04-13-17, 11:10 AM
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Trim color vs cabinets?

Finishing up sanding today and hoping to finish priming tomorrow. Wondering about all this freaking crown molding in here, and chair rail...does it sound looney to use two different types of white for these? I was thinking maybe a more "stark" white for the trim, and a slightly different white for the cabinets. Would that look weird?


Oh, and I have read WAY too many stories now about yellowing paint! It sounds like the waterborne paints all have this issue. I won't be happy if my white kitchen turns yellow in 7 years.
So now I am back to thinking about latex, which apparently does not yellow at all.

Thoughts?
 

Last edited by yardnut; 04-13-17 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 04-13-17, 11:24 AM
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There really isn't any right/wrong choices when it comes to color. The main thing is if it appeals to you [or prospective buyer] Having a different color white on the crown will bring more attention to the crown molding. Both the same color makes them blend better. The worst that can happen is you don't like it and the fix is easy
 
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Old 04-14-17, 07:30 AM
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BIN primer

All I can say is Holy Crap. This stuff is amazing. All I have EVER used is KILZ, and this stuff is completely different. When I opened the can I thought it was so thin I would have to do 5 coats of primer. But the coverage is great - I was so surprised when I started brushing it on. I do plan on using 2 coats I think, it goes on so fast and dries incredibly fast I think it will be better.

Now I am off to the store to find SOMETHING that will allow me to pour paint from the can into my little paint box. The paint lid that I THOUGHT would work was apparently warped and and did not seal the can. You can imagine what happened. Oy vey. I might try a dang turkey baster LOL. Also going to get some paint masks - the smell is fine out in the open, but in a couple of large areas down near the floor, it's nearly overwhelming. Also have to grab some fine sanding blocks/paper. I used 150-180 before priming, but I think I need something finer now.

Also I think I am changing my mind about NOT painting the inside of the cabinet doors. Not sure what the norm is, but I just thought it would not be worth the time. But now that I see how fast this primer goes on, I may just go ahead and do it.

 
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Old 04-14-17, 07:33 AM
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Did you mix the BIN well? the pigments often settle to the bottom of the can.
180 or 220 is good for sanding the primer, generally 1 coat of primer is sufficient. I'd rather apply 1 coat primer and 2 coats finish. It usually takes 3 coats and it's best to have more finish to withstand wear.
 
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Old 04-14-17, 08:55 AM
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Is it really best to spend the $30 on a respirator mask or can I get by with the little paper valved ones?

And yes on the BIN, I did end up stirring it really well and it did thicken slightly. I did see that there were a lot of solids at the bottom so I was careful to mix it well. It was just so thin when I first opened it I think I was just surprised having only used the KILZ before.
 

Last edited by yardnut; 04-14-17 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 04-14-17, 12:04 PM
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The paper masks don't do a whole lot although there is a big difference between the cheap dusk masks and the more expensive ones. Nothing beats a mask with filter cartridges designed for paint. That said, I'd think a paper mask would be adequate for one job [as opposed to doing it for living]
 
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Old 04-14-17, 03:14 PM
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I went ahead and bought a good mask. Better safe than sorry.
 
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Old 04-22-17, 01:24 PM
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Red face Just an update...

I finally finished the cabinets. I was off Wed-Sun last week, but lost some time on Easter Sunday of course (family stuff) so I wound up taking Monday off too, and then this week have been coming straight home from work to paint. I finished everything Thursday night so that I could finally get back in the gym on Friday night!! Man I am tired of painting!

I started last Tuesday night taking all the doors/hinges off, and the drawers out - papered the kitchen floor, covered counters and desk/computer with plastic. I was up until 3 am - 30 doors, 15 drawers, a desk and bar - a LOT of wood in my kitchen! Next day I cleaned everything with liquid TSP - those doors were filthy - I was amazed and really pleased at how well that cleaner works. Thursday was sanding and then deglossing. I tried so hard to get to the primer on Thursday night but I was flat out pooped. Friday morning I started the primer. I think I got the primer done on everything that day, and started sanding the cabinet facings - I did one half of the kitchen that night, and then put one coat of paint on the upper section. I really wanted to see paint!! Saturday I finished the first coat and half of the second sanding (I did all the sanding first each day, and then vacuumed, before painting. Sunday I finished 2nd sanding, and got all of the 2nd coat on. Monday I sanded the cabinet doors and drawers (they just had primer up to now) and started the first coat.

The next 3 nights I finished them. That was a HELLUVA lot of work. I mean, I knew it was going to be a lot of work, but I really thought I could finish by Sunday. Boy was I wrong. And at the start of all this, my BF had said (Well I really don't see more than 3 days work there.") Clearly he was clueless!!

Anyway, the paint, well, it was great on the doors - laying flat. It leveled beautifully. But man that is some damn drippy paint on vertical surfaces. It's a SIXTEEN hour dry time before you can sand, so it's a very slow drying paint. I still have not mastered how to get a nice smooth surface on the cabinet facings. I HAVE become pretty adept at fixing runs with a trim blade and touching them up. I am not sure that I would use this paint again, but I bought 2 darn gallons of it, thinking it would take that much, and only used a gallon. (Of course I still have crown molding and trim and 3 doors in the kitchen to do, so I am not done by a long shot - I will break into the 2nd gallon soon.) I've gone back over a few spots, sanded and touched up, and I am sure I will do more over the next few months as I have time.

I wanted to mention that the paint store guy told me, right after I bought the paint- "Now I recommend 3 thin coats and 2 regular coats. " I looked at him like he had just grown a 3rd eye. I don't think I said anything to him, but I knew that wasn't going to happen. I would be lucky to do three coats!!

I have ordered new hinges - decided that cleaning and painting the old ones was not going to result in a look that I would be happy with, so I bit the bullet and spent $150 on satin nickel ones (same kind different finish). Those will be here sometime next week and I can finally get the doors on!! I will post pics after I get them on.

Anyway...just thought I would update you on my project!
 
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Old 04-23-17, 04:00 AM
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What finish coat did you end up using?

Might be a lot of work but think of the bragging rites you have associated with the finish product
 
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Old 04-23-17, 08:09 AM
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I was waffling between satin and semi-gloss, but ended up going with satin. All my friends advised semi for easier cleaning, but everything I have read online says that this paint cleans just as easily in satin, and the guys at the paint store showed me samples that proved that. I think the satin looks a bit more "elegant" than the semi - I didn't want a "shiny" look in my kitchen, and I'm happy with the look.
 
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Old 04-23-17, 10:41 AM
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I meant what brand .... because of the issues you had applying it
While a shinier enamel might clean slightly better there really isn't any difference between satin, semi-gloss and gloss other than the sheen.
 
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Old 04-23-17, 09:09 PM
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Oh...I used Benjamin Moore Advance. If I had it to do over again, I would have gone with the Cabinet Coat I think.
 
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Old 04-24-17, 04:36 AM
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I don't think I've ever used BM's Advance line. I'm partial to SWP's ProClassic Waterborne although I've heard some say it's more difficult to apply probably due to the fact that it sets up fairly fast. I suspect the Advance is similar.
 
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Old 04-24-17, 07:55 AM
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Advance is not a quick drying paint at all. It's very very slow. 16 hour wait time until you can sand for another coat. Lot's of people like that because you have a long time to go back and fix boo-boos. But it's incredibly drippy and saggy. I found a lot of blogs that talked about this, but obviously there are a lot of people that have great success with it. The only way to avoid drips is to use very thin coats, and if I had known that was how it would behave, I would not have chosen it. I found myself going back to every surface, 15 minutes later, checking for runs and drips. I've never had that experience before with paint - but then, I've never painted kitchen cabinets before either. I definitely have some places to go back and redo, but honestly the doors themselves look beautiful. I am happy with those for sure.

This is a comparison of the Advance, v.s. the SW ProClassic, but it's several years old so I don't know if there have been changes made to each.

http://shearerpainting.com/water-red...rwin-williams/

Both paints have a learning curve as they have different characteristics than virtually any other paints. The paints are very thin and need to be applied in multiple coats.

Here is a more recent comparison.

http://www.bowerpowerblog.com/2013/0...in-vs-sherwin/


Since I still have a gallon of BM left, obviously I will get some more experience with it. I have a hella lot of crown and chair rail and baseboard to do. I'll just have to get better with the thin coats. The tricky part of the molding is it's very "crevicy". I have no idea how I am going to get such a surface sanded properly. Only thing I am sure of, is that it will NOT be any fun!
 

Last edited by yardnut; 04-24-17 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 04-24-17, 08:47 AM
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You said you cleaned with TSP - please tell me you rinsed the TSP off well afterward.
 
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Old 04-24-17, 12:21 PM
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I used liquid TSP. Technically a TSP substitute I guess, but it worked great. I rinsed afterward, And sanded. And deglossed.
 
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Old 05-02-17, 07:29 PM
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I am new to this forum and have read your thread with eagerness. I am starting a similar project in a few weeks. Would love to see your finished cabinets!!!

I'm sure I'll be back with some questions of my own.
 
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