Zinser Peel and stop primer for 1971 cedar shingles?

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  #1  
Old 05-31-18, 07:28 PM
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Zinser Peel and stop primer for 1971 cedar shingles?

Thinking of using Zinser's Peel and stop Primer instead of scraping, etc my painted striated cedar shingles. There are some places where I can literally peel off the paint and I'm assuming I should scrape , peel these areas first.

As you may know, it's rather difficult scraping paint off of striated cedar shakes, so I'm wondering if this stuff may work to kind of hold all of it together.

I bought a lead test kit also from HD to make sure there's no lead in the 2 colors of paint on the shakes.

What do you think of the Peel and Stop and then painting over it? Like I said, I want to remove the real bad peeling areas anyway and they should come off pretty easy. Today I used just a flat paint scraper on a bad shingle and a good deal of paint just came right off.

Does this Peel and stop "work wonders" with peeling paint? Do I have to still scrape, etc?

Thanks
 
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  #2  
Old 05-31-18, 08:57 PM
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I doubt it works as good on old weathered cedar as it does on new clean cedar. But it might be worth trying. It likely also works best when you can prime and paint both sides.

Things usually peel because of uneven drying... one side sucks up moisture while the other side traps it... so it has to bubble up to evaporate.
 
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Old 06-01-18, 02:45 AM
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Most any coat of primer or paint will help lock down peeling paint BUT it's always best to remove as much loose as you can first! I normally use a combination of scraping and dragging a wire brush across the shingle to remove failing paint.
 
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Old 06-01-18, 01:57 PM
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Ok, just did a 3m test and the white paint underneath turned red mostly. I have lead paint?

Is it safe to scrape minimally? I only have to get the real loose stuff.

I bought Glidden Gripper Primer.

I'm a little scared now of scraping. Is it ok to just use a n95 mask and maybe some goggles?

Most of the real loose stuff I can just peel off by hand, Is that safe?

I don't see generating much dust of anything. Should I hire someone to scrape instead?
 
  #5  
Old 06-01-18, 09:19 PM
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Thinking of maybe going with Vinyl or something else. My house is a small one story ranch of about 900 sf. What are some other options besides vinyl? I hate the "cookie cutter" look of vinyl really.

Do you think this would be considered a drastic measure from wanting to get away from the peeling cedar siding and most likely lead based paint?

Is it very expensive to reside a small house?
 
  #6  
Old 06-02-18, 03:06 AM
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Lead is only hazardous to your health if the dust is inhaled or the chips ingested. If no sanding is involved all you need to do is contain/dispose of the paint chips. The new lead regs were coming into effect as I was getting ready to retire so I'm not real familiar with them. I do know that homeowners aren't as restricted by the new regs as contractors are.

While I prefer the look of wood siding there is a lot to be said in favor of vinyl, mainly the fact that it doesn't have to be painted every so many years. There are quite a few different styles of vinyl siding to choose from.
 
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Old 06-02-18, 02:52 PM
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Did you work around lead paint in your career? Did you worry about masks and everything? Just wondering. Mostly the stuff peels off where its loose on my shakes down to the bare wood. I don't think there's much if any dust really although I may go buy a respirator to where I suppose as I'm a little paranoid.

I'm guessing it would be at least $5000 to side my small house with vinyl? Then I wouldn't have the fun of painting though ..... haha
 

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  #8  
Old 06-03-18, 03:10 AM
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I've both applied and removed lead based paint - but not a lot. 40+ yrs ago we didn't really worry about it much. Lead is more of a danger to children than adults. While I've applied, scraped and sanded lead paint without a mask, I wouldn't do so today. If you believed everything they say about the dangers - I should have died long ago. . Not trying to minimize the dangers associated with lead based coatings! The more precautions you take the better!
 
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Old 06-03-18, 09:31 AM
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Debating now whether I should scrape and paint - basically spend all summer most likely or coughing up money to have another siding type put on.

I like painting, but I don't care for all the prep as most people I would assume.

I hate the look of "cookie cutter" vinyl. To me they all look like cheap plastic houses.

I was even now thinking maybe about aluminum? I like something that I can paint if I want to.

I have about 900f one story ranch and am wondering if I can get the whole thing redone for around 5-6k. Most likely with my luck it'll cost over $10K! I have the money, but really like HAVING the money better for some reason lol!
 

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Old 06-03-18, 03:22 PM
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Both vinyl and aluminum siding can be painted with good results providing the proper prep and coating is used. Aluminum siding is getting harder and harder to find. Personally I prefer the look of wood but it does come at a cost - re occuring maintenance.
 
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Old 06-03-18, 05:29 PM
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The lady down the street said it's not hard to do your own vinyl install. I am leaning towards some type of vinyl shingle or shake look. She said "Too bad you didn't know someone that could show you how to do a few rows and then you could do most of the labor yourself.

How difficult is it to put on vinyl shingles? Is there a wrap to put on first or something?
 

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  #12  
Old 06-03-18, 05:34 PM
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If you tear off your old siding first, yes you will need a WRB behind the new siding. Many will put a WRB up or foam fanfold if going over existing siding.
 
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Old 06-03-18, 06:35 PM
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I never liked the plastic look of vinyl. I've read this guy before and have to agree with him. I agree with most vinyl the character is gone and the whole street (mine also) looks like a giant trailer park. I may have to keep scraping and painting this summer guys!

Vinyl vs Wood Siding Your House - OldHouseGuy Blog

One last question; Do you think painter's would just come a prep remove the loose paint, etc without actually painting the house? I mean, I want to paint it, but don't really enjoy the prep as much. I can do it, but wouldn't mind paying someone to do it.
 
  #14  
Old 06-04-18, 02:48 AM
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There are painters that would just do the prep but IMO you'd probably be better off to hire a handyman or some teenagers to do that part. Pro painters don't like the prep phase either so they'd likely charge extra if just doing that part - I know I would.
 
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Old 06-04-18, 01:17 PM
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Thanks Mark.

When I scrape off the loose paint I'm left with areas that are down to the wood. I primed the whole shingle with Glidden Gripper which seems to hold pretty good, but the "depressions" cast a different shadow than the more "paint covered" areas, even after my final top coat. I realize it's not going to look perfect, but is there a way to make the scraped off areas come out more uniform to the painted (old paint stuck on good) areas?

I don't want to use oil primer. Is there a better primer I should be using? I was thinking of trying that "triple thick" stuff, but it's a little expensive and looks kind of gimmicky.

I'm also using Behr Dark Navy blue and it's about $47 gallon. Am I wasting my money? I think it's there premium. I was going to go with the less expensive one, but they talked me into it I guess.
 

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  #16  
Old 06-05-18, 02:51 AM
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Compared to labor the extra cost of better paint is minuscule. I know very little about Behr coatings.
With smooth/flat siding you can sand the transition between peeled and sound paint but with cedar shingles there isn't a lot you can do.

Oil base primer is best because it both adheres well and will block tannin bleed although with older siding the risk of the latter is diminished. When using latex primer I'd probably use SWP's A-100 latex primer maybe adding 10-20% of Flood's EmulsaBond to it [aids adhesion]
 
  #17  
Old 06-05-18, 03:13 AM
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Thanks Mark!

I used Glidden Gripper and it seems to form a nice hard tight finish. Not sure how well it will hold up, but so far so good.

I have just a couple more questions and then I won't bother you anymore.

1. Do I prime over everything or just the areas that are down to the wood?

So if I were to use an oil base primer I have to wait 24 hours before painting correct?

I have no idea what type of primer (if any) is on there now. All I know is that the gray paint is peeling in many places right down to the bare cedar.

I haven't noticed any tannin bleed.

Also, I read that you have to sand oil primer before applying paint? Does that hold true on striated cedar shakes?
 

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  #18  
Old 06-05-18, 03:17 AM
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Normally you just need to prime the bare areas although sometimes it's easier to prime it all.
All primers should be completely dry before being top coated. 24 hrs is a good rule of thumb for oil base primer although a lot is dependent on heat, humidity and how thirsty the wood is.
IMO there is seldom a need to sand any primer on exterior siding. Latex paints adhere well over dry oil base primer.
 
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Old 06-05-18, 03:56 PM
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Another question sorry.

The woman at Sherwin Williams told me that most people use flat on the house and satin on the trim.

Should I use flat for the house?

I thought satin is preferable.
 
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Old 06-06-18, 03:02 AM
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It's all about personal preference. I like the trim to have more sheen than the body. Most of the houses I've painted [that didn't use the same paint/sheen everywhere] either had flat body and satin trim or satin body and semi-gloss or gloss on the trim. It's not like there are set rules - what ever sheen works for you.

Flat paint is less likely to highlight any deviances in your siding [like the transitions from old paint to scraped wood] Satin might clean a little easier.
 
  #21  
Old 06-06-18, 06:42 PM
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Painted an 1/8 of the house or almost 1/2 of the front of the house tonight, after scraping and priming of course. It started raining about 7pm and I continued to 8pm. The paint was out of the rain under the eave of this small ranch house. The last part has not dried in over 2 hours now and it's dark. I went out and checked it with a flashlight.

Will the paint dry overnight or tomorrow? It's going to be sunny. It's in the low 50's right now and damp outside.

It's funny cause it's Sherwin Williams Resilence paint which is supposed to be ok to paint in rain or humidity?
 
  #22  
Old 06-07-18, 03:11 AM
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It's never a good idea to apply any paint if it's expected to get rained on shortly. Humidity often causes paint to dry slower. As long as it didn't get a direct hit from the rain it should be fine. If it did get rained on you'd need to inspect it to see if the rain hurt the paint. Often another coat is all that is needed if it did.
 
  #23  
Old 06-07-18, 07:51 AM
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Thanks Mark. It was a light rain and it didn't touch the siding. The humidity was 93% to 100% according to the weather online. I'm going to go out and inspect it now that it's morning. Supposed to get some sun today .... I hope.
 

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Old 06-07-18, 09:05 AM
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When I worked in central fla the humidity seldom fell below 90%. As long as the wood is dry I wouldn't be too concerned about the humidity affecting the paint job. Dew falling on tacky paint is more of a concern than humidity.
 
  #25  
Old 06-07-18, 06:28 PM
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Here's how it's coming along so far. Dark Navy blue SW Resilience paint. I know, the trees look like crap in front of the house. As soon as I get enough first that big ol spruce is coming down!
 
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  #26  
Old 06-09-18, 10:03 PM
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What would be the benefit of a solid stain over using latex paint? So far, I've painted in SW resilience , but heard some good things about solid stain instead.

Could I do the rest of the house in Woodscapes stain if I have paint on the shingles right now?

Would there also be cons?

Thanks.
 
  #27  
Old 06-10-18, 02:20 AM
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While a solid stain can be applied over paint I don't see any benefit for you. Paint should both adhere and cover better. Paint generally holds up longer than stain. Paint can peel when it gets to the end of it's life while stain is more apt to just wear away. If your shingles were bare wood or had always been stained it would make sense to use stain but since they've been previously painted - I'd stick with paint.
 
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Old 06-10-18, 07:27 PM
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Thanks Mark, that's what I'll do!
 

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  #29  
Old 06-11-18, 03:08 PM
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Couple more questions.

I understand "loose" paint is paint that is kind of hanging there or you can just touch it or push it easy and it falls off. What about paint that you CAN get off with a little force? Do you try and remove that too?

I would think most any paint would come off if I take the side of a scraper and start digging at it.

Also, if the peeling paint comes off nice and clean and there's bare wood, does that necessarily mean that the primer FAILED or is it normal that even the primer will eventually "fail" some day and expose bare wood? When I get off the loose stuff there's bare wood completely in those areas.

I'm so far getting off the real loose stuff and have been leaving behind stuff that seems stuck on pretty good. I'm sure if I really wanted to though I could get it all off, driving myself insane in the process! Striated shingles are another whole deal than just flat wood!

One more:

Am I supposed to caulk between each shingle? I know you don't caulk UNDER the bottom, but I mean where each side meets the other? I've noticed what I though was old calk coming out when I scrape off old paint where they meet sometime and I'm left at times with a 1/4 inch gap between the shingles and a few have a crack in the shingle itself.

What type of caulk do I use if that's the case?

Thanks a lot!
 
  #30  
Old 06-12-18, 03:17 AM
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While it's imperative that you remove all the really loose paint, the rest is a judgment call. The new paint will help to lock down marginally adhered paint but the more paint is removed, the longer the new paint job should last. I normally scrape off what I can and then drag a wire brush over the shingles to see if it reveals any more that needs scraping.

Primer can fail just like paint can. When the paint and primer comes off all that means is the top coat stuck better to the primer than the primer stuck to the substrate. Sometimes it's an indication of poor prep but remember no paint job lasts forever.

No need to caulk between shingles. They are installed similar to roof shingles. The only reason to caulk is to make a bad joint/fit look better. I usually use 'white lightning' caulk although most any siliconized acrylic latex caulk should do fine.
 
  #31  
Old 06-12-18, 02:39 PM
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Thanks MarkSr for ALL your invaluable help! Paint is coming along nice so far! Almost done with the front, but still have a little more loose paint to get off!
 
  #32  
Old 06-27-18, 03:03 AM
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Should I be caulking the cracks? When I scrape usually the old caulking that was between each shake falls out. So they were previously caulked I believe, although not all cracks around the house.

The reason is that there's some type of fiberboard behind these shakes and not just cedar and it's unsightly when the crack is about 1/4 inch. I'm also worried that if it gets wet it will rot out, so that was my reasoning behind recaulking the gaps between the shingles.

I'm using a 5 in 1 paint scraper on its side to scrape. That's the only way really to scrape these type of shingles without ruining them really. I'm only getting as much loose paint and leaving the rest and then using Glidden Gripper primer.

Here's some of my scrape work (painstaking!) on the 2nd side so far. I am using SW Power house caulk.

The front is complete after a month of scraping and priming and 2 coats SW resilience flat Navy Blue paint. New white shutters on the way for the large window.

I also am getting a new front door and front storm. I'm thinking of a yellow door. Do you think it would look ok on this color? I guess, the doors comes white and then you have to paint them, so i can pick any color.
 
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Old 06-27-18, 03:31 AM
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Normally there is tar paper or some other type of moisture barrier behind the shingles. I usually just caulk the larger cracks for looks although if you feel the need there isn't any issues with caulking all [or some] of the vertical cracks. Use a good siliconized acrylic latex caulk [it's paintable]
 
  #34  
Old 06-27-18, 04:35 AM
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Thanks, thats what i'm using.
 
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Old 07-04-18, 04:28 PM
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Can any one tell me the type of nails I'd use to secure a couple of my cedar shingles that have come a little loose?

Thanks
 
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Old 07-05-18, 03:19 AM
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Galvanized nails. .................
 
  #37  
Old 07-11-18, 03:34 PM
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Thanks Marksr. I got some at HD called "cedar nails" I think and they're galvanized. I think they're 1 1/2 or 3/4 if I remember right.
 

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  #38  
Old 07-11-18, 03:38 PM
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Here's some pics of all my work since June 1 so far. Got a ton more to do on the back and other side. The other side is in pretty good shape, so might just have to prime and paint. The back has many areas that are really peeling. I've been scraping all the loose paint with a regular scraper held on its side down each groove.

Some areas where the paint is flaking right off come off in sheets so it's not THAT tedious, BUT it still gets tedious. Plenty of breaks, etc!

The light gray is the Glidden Gripper primer which seems to hold pretty good. I was caulking with SW Powerhouse white , but have recently switched to the dark brown since I'll be painting over with Dark Navy Blue.

I'm caulking because all joints were previously caulked and during scraping a lot of them come out and there's a delicate fiberboard like material behind the cedar shingles that I don't think should get wet.

The paint is Sherwin Williams Resilience Dark Navy Blue.

It's a LOT of work , but every day I'm more and more proud of my work! I've NEVER painted a house before!!

Even went out and bought a 24 foot Werner compact ladder ! I'm afraid of heights , but i'm doing it!!
 
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Old 07-12-18, 04:32 AM
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It's a LOT of work , but every day I'm more and more proud of my work! I've NEVER painted a house before!!
............ I'm afraid of heights , but i'm doing it!!
That's the thing I always liked about painting - you get to see the progress/change you've made.
I was leery of heights when I first started painting but the more you work off of ladders the more you'll get used to it. The main thing is to make sure the ladder is planted securely before you get on it!
 
  #40  
Old 07-12-18, 07:00 PM
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Do you think the Gripper primer will hold up as well as an oil base?

It seems to adhere very well and seems as tough as nails. I heard something that after a while oil based become brittle and end up cracking and peeling which is what the house is doing now.

I found and old can of Sears Best weather Beater oil based primer and it's a white color which is what I noticed under the gray paint when I was scraping and like I said a lot of the paint and primer is coming right off to the bare cedar.

I know it's sort of "taboo" to use a latex primer on cedar, but I read that latex is more flexible than oil and I've never used oil and heard it can be smelly and bad to breath.

Should I switch to oil for the rest of the house?

Also, when I did a lead test (3m) I noticed that the "white" paint (I'm assuming it's this oil primer, but not sure) turned reddish. Would oil primer have lead in it? It looks like an older label.
 
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