Cedar Siding Peeling

Reply

  #1  
Old 04-04-20, 06:54 PM
Z
Forum Topic Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 5,431
Received 132 Votes on 122 Posts
Cedar Siding Peeling

A section of my house was built out in the late 90's including painted cedar siding. Over the past few years, it's been peeling. 3 summers ago, I scraped the peeling sections, primed and repainted. Now more is peeling, along with some of what I had repainted.
I'm not surprised for the original paint peeling, but I am surprised that what I painted recently is peeling some - though not quite as much.

What I find interesting is that it looks like the peeling paint is actually pulling off a thin later of wood, rather than just the paint peeling.

How do you recommend priming/painting so I don't have to repaint again? I was going to Zisner 123 Primer and exterior paint. Or is oil primer the way to go? Other suggestions?
 
Attached Images   
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-04-20, 07:32 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,224
Received 722 Votes on 668 Posts
What is the makeup of the wall directly behind the siding? And what is the room used for on the other side? The color of the siding alone tells me there is a bigtime moisture problem, with moisture trapped behind the siding, trying to get out. Its that moisture drive that is causing the paint to fail. The moisture is activating the tannins in the cedar, which is horrible for paint adhesion. So until that gets figured out I dont think I would be in a hurry to repaint.

Also, at any time has the bottom edge of any of the siding ever been caulked?
 
  #3  
Old 04-04-20, 07:54 PM
Z
Forum Topic Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 5,431
Received 132 Votes on 122 Posts
Not what I wanted to hear, but frankly, Iím not surprised. Thereís a full bath (with shower). Itís not used often, but I guess enough. And that whole section of house has the insulation value of a tissue... so I know the insulation and vapor barrier is poor at best.
the adjacent wall is peeling, but not quite as bad.
Iím not sure if the underside of each was caulked it painted, but the whole wall is sealed.

might consider taking it all down from the outside and rebuilding.... but thatís for another thread.
 
  #4  
Old 04-04-20, 08:43 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,224
Received 722 Votes on 668 Posts
I was afraid that was a bathroom. Worst case scenario. Yes, poorly constructed, poorly insulated and poorly air sealed are all factors that are leading to your paint failure. Sad to say, nothing you can do will help paint hold on cedar. Another type of siding might perform better... preferably something manmade like LP Smartside.

A rain screen type of siding installation would also help because it would provide an airspace between the siding and sheathing... basically venting the moisture that is behind the siding before it becomes so saturated that it drives the paint off the siding. It would take some doing but it could be done. Cor-a-vent ventilation can be used at top and bottom to provide airflow behind the siding. This method means building out a vented frieze around the perimeter of the roof, making it about 3" wider than it is now, so it would mean adding onto the roof sheathing, new drip edge and roofing as well. Windows would need to come out and get reinstalled on the newly built out surface, or at least would need new, deeper trim.

If you just need to get it repainted for now, I would suggest priming with either Zinsser Peel Stop clear binding primer or Zinsser Peel Stop triple thick primer. Both are good on cedar tannins. Then topcoat as you normally would. But even then it may not last long... you will being replacing your exterior soon I'm afraid.
 
Zorfdt voted this post useful.
  #5  
Old 04-05-20, 05:41 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 47,716
Received 333 Votes on 296 Posts
Is that a room that was added after the house was built? like a porch that was enclosed?
I too suspect moisture behind the siding causing the paint to peel. On old houses where there is no vapor barrier it works best to use latex primer instead of oil base. It will allow some of the moisture to pass thru, The problem with not using an oil base primer is tannins can bleed thru latex primer [and finish paint]
 
Zorfdt voted this post useful.
  #6  
Old 04-05-20, 07:24 AM
Z
Forum Topic Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 5,431
Received 132 Votes on 122 Posts
Is that a room that was added after the house was built? like a porch that was enclosed?
You're good. Yes, it was a porch turned into a sunroom/bathroom. When I realized how much heat is being lost through the walls, I was/am considering tearing off the siding (I'm not certain there's even sheathing underneath).

XSleeper, I was reading about a vented frieze. I get the concept, and it sounds like it would resolve the moisture issue, but a lot of work to not address the lack of insulation.

Is it possible to properly insulate and vapor barrier from the outside? It's 2x4 construction, and I wouldn't be sad having to replace the windows too as there's definitely a breeze in the winter. It would be a big project, it wraps around another 17', then another 17'. Maybe start with that one wall. I wouldn't want to do that much of a project unless I could do it right and make it worthwhile.

Thanks for the knowledge, much appreciated!
 
  #7  
Old 04-05-20, 08:03 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 26,224
Received 722 Votes on 668 Posts
Anything is possible. Just costs $$$.

Just talking out loud here, but one option you could consider if there is no sheathing is to forget the siding and do stucco. You would tear open walls, air seal all penetrations and stud perimeters, then insulate. Spray foam would be best but pricey. Rockwool is probably next best. After insulation you apply 2 layers of felt, incorporate windows into the felt, then wire lath and your traditional 3 coats. Tightcoat is a member here that could help with stucco advice. The stucco itself would be fairly inexpensive compared to cedar siding, unless you need to hire it done.

As for your mention of vapor barrier, that's not likely part of the equation going forward. First, unless you are far north, you want a vapor retarder... not a vapor barrier. If you already have a poly vapor barrier, it could be part of the problem, believe it or not. (It could be trapping moisture in the wall) Current thinking is to air seal (to eliminate air movement) which is accomplished by your drywall, taped and finished. If you have unfinished joints in your drywall, or balloon framing, with no top or bottom plates at the floor and ceiling, that can add to moisture problems by letting interior air into the wall cavity. Blocking at the floor and ceiling would be needed in that case. Some actually caulk drywall to the studs as a way to better air seal. (Uncommon but smart) Then your interior paint is the vapor retarder. Retarders are not as solid as barriers, so they slowly let vapor pass.

Sunlight has a lot to do with vapor drive, and without being able to be there to investigate how it was built and why it failed, it's hard to put all those pieces together. But its likely a factor, for instance, if the siding has been applied over the top of old stucco. Add to that it seems unlikely that the roof has adequate insulation or ventilation, judging by the distance from the window to the roof. Additions like that are just poorly designed and constructed... underinsulated, with a lot of heat loss, so they have a tendency to be "sick"- unhealthy spaces prone to mold and moisture problems.
 
  #8  
Old 04-12-20, 02:39 PM
Z
Forum Topic Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 5,431
Received 132 Votes on 122 Posts
XSleeper & Mark, wanted to thank you both for the help with this project. Ended up priming and painting, knowing that it'll need a bigger fix in a year or two. I did some research about siding installation and boy things have changed since felt paper and shingles.

Anyway - the painting looks nice for now. Thanks again!
 
Attached Images  
XSleeper voted this post useful.
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description: