NO one quotes a paint job doing it like I did. Why??

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Old 12-10-20, 03:38 PM
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NO one quotes a paint job doing it like I did. Why??

I don't get it. Three years ago, maybe 4, I cam to this forum and got a lot of great advice from you folks. I painted my entire kitchen - cabinets, trim, doors, etc. (all stained wood - knots and all!). I wanted to take shortcuts but you advised against it. I cleaned, used B.I>N, Advance, sanded

So I did the work and it turned out great. I cleaned, sanded, wiped down, deglossed, sanded, primed, sanded, primed, sanded, used B.I.N, Advance (2 coats) and yea that was a LOT of work. But it has held up great.

I am now getting quotes to do trim in the bedrooms - and NO ONE SANDS. NONE of the quotes include sanding. What the heck?
 

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12-10-20, 04:33 PM
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No one hired will ever devote the same level of effort as the owner.

Try having tenants some time and see how well they take care of the property compared to you.
 
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Old 12-10-20, 03:57 PM
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They only need the paint to stay on long enough for your check to clear.
 
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Old 12-10-20, 04:33 PM
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No one hired will ever devote the same level of effort as the owner.

Try having tenants some time and see how well they take care of the property compared to you.
 
marksr, Norm201 voted this post useful.
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Old 12-10-20, 05:10 PM
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True enough. But years ago I learned that certain things don't need to be perfect. Painted walls are one of those things that most people don't necessarily deem as the most important item especially if you're the type to repainted every few years. And a lot depends on your life style and priorities. When it comes to painting walls I'll get a quality paint and make sure the walls are clean and free of defects but that's it. Same thing with staining doors and poly finishing them. They don't need to be super smooth. I've never known anybody to examine painted walls when visiting my house. However, on the other hand, when I remodeled my kitchen, and main bathroom my attention to perfection was 2nd to none. I'm very sure no professional could do a better job or fit corners and fittings any better than I did. But these things are made to last a lifetime. A paint job not necessarily so. Surface decorating needs to look good to the casual observer, but beyond that too much effort and it's just wasted time and money. A lot pf people will dis-agree with me on this but that's how I see it.

BUT, if I was to sell my work or talents I would make sure it was the very best be it worth it or not!
 
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Old 12-10-20, 05:18 PM
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Most contractors are under pressure to be the lowest bid, or they don't get the job. So most guys have a slam bam mentality, not a take your time and do a quality job... like most homeowners would like to do if they diy.

And I would venture to say that most painters worth their salt would give everything a very quick scuff sanding, (whether its specifically noted on the contract or not) but not to the extent that you sanded at ALL. To a painter, that light scuff sanding would not even be worth noting on the estimate... estimates are not a blow by blow list of every single step they take. They are a general idea of what its going to cost and what they intend to do.
 
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Old 12-10-20, 05:19 PM
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Painted walls are one of those things that most people don't necessarily deem as the most important item
I nearly spit up my glass of wine.

Our house and first paint job is going on 14years, and you've read recent post about paint quality, were starting to repaint mainly for freshness since the boys are out but also to slightly change the color.

Painted walls are a huge priority and if they dont last at least 10 years then something is really wrong!

 
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Old 12-10-20, 05:32 PM
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cleaned, sanded, wiped down, deglossed, sanded, primed, sanded, primed, sanded, used B.I.N, Advance (2 coats) and yea that was a LOT of work.
Marq, you misunderstand me. Quality paint and prep is important. But I would never go to that extreme. It ain't worth it. I have painted walls that are 40 years old and still look good and I never had to go through that. When I install new wallboard I prime it. Then paint it. That's it. If it's old walls then I clean it (one coat usually does it), fill in any holes or blemishes, maybe prime it depending what was on it before then apply new paint. That's it. You'll never see the difference. Maybe Marksr, would if he was to examine it, but who does that? Just say'n
 
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Old 12-11-20, 05:13 AM
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I don't know if I've ever specifically included sanding in a bid/quote but I've always sanded when needed to do a decent job. Concerns like that and others should be brought to the painter's attention when he comes out to bid the job. If you don't trust his word - have it included in the quote ..... although I'm not certain I'd want to hire someone I didn't trust.

How long an interior paint job lasts depends on a lot of factors. I've seen them needing a repaint within one yr or last 10+ yrs - using the same prep and paint.
 
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Old 12-11-20, 06:25 AM
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I've seen them needing a repaint within one yr or last 10+ yrs - using the same prep and paint.
An example...I have my computer room. It was painted once, when I moved in about 40 years ago. Walls were never touched in any way. Never needed to paint it again yet. They look perfect and clean. One black mark was found behind a cabinet. Washed off easily and you'd never know. On the other hand, our hall and stairs are due for a repaint. It's been about 10 years. Because of the abuse the hallway gets I will not go through too much prep other than clean and fill in blemishes. It will only get beat up in few years anyway.
 
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Old 12-11-20, 07:33 AM
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"Most contractors are under pressure to be the lowest bid, or they don't get the job. So most guys have a slam bam mentality, not a take your time and do a quality job... like most homeowners would like to do if they diy.

And I would venture to say that most painters worth their salt would give everything a very quick scuff sanding, (whether its specifically noted on the contract or not) but not to the extent that you sanded at ALL. To a painter, that light scuff sanding would not even be worth noting on the estimate... estimates are not a blow by blow list of every single step they take. They are a general idea of what its going to cost and what they intend to do."


Nope. I have specifically asked them - the last guy said "well I just use a deglosser that does the same thing so you don't need to sand".

What??? I mean...I am just gobsmacked. I have made it clear talking to these guys that I am not interested in the LOWEST BID. I am interested in a quality job - and it needs to be AT LEAST AS GOOD as my own work (which they have seen when they come in) since I am not a professional painter. I think that is a reasonable expectation, is it not???
 
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Old 12-11-20, 07:36 AM
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"No one hired will ever devote the same level of effort as the owner."

That's ridiculous. I am PAYING for the "level of effort". THEY are the pro - that is supposedly why I am paying them. So none of you professional painters would have sanding as part of your process, in quoting a job where you are painting stained woodwork trim??
 
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Old 12-11-20, 07:47 AM
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"Marq, you misunderstand me. Quality paint and prep is important. But I would never go to that extreme. It ain't worth it. I have painted walls that are 40 years old and still look good and I never had to go through that. When I install new wallboard I prime it. Then paint it. That's it. If it's old walls then I clean it (one coat usually does it), fill in any holes or blemishes, maybe prime it depending what was on it before then apply new paint. That's it. You'll never see the difference."

I am not discussing painting walls. I am talking about the stained wood trim in my home - baseboards and closet door facings - I just spend a month (I work full time and was also working on clearing out my parents house to sell - they both passed away this summer - 2020 SUCKS) working on my hall way (that has SEVEN doors) as I got new wood floors that simply clashed with my old trimwork. I knew that would be the case, and I did not want to wait to find a painter to get it done. I already know the process, from doing my kitchen/dining/laundry, and stairs, back in 2016. So I knew what to do. And now that I have THAT done, the rest (the trim in the bedrooms, and the crown molding in the living room) I am ready to turn over to a pro. I just can't find one that I trust to do the job correctly. I know they must be out there. How do I find them??

It's not a huge job, but it will take a few days due to the drying time of Advance (and I insist on that paint).
This job consists of:
Painting the baseboard in the living room (2 coats of Advance) - it is already primed, just needs paint.
Crown molding in living room - needs to be prepped/primed/painted.
4 closets and doors (both sided of doors) - closet facing to be painted only on the front - the interior "backward facing" trim can be left. (I don't care about what I cannot see, frankly.)
Baseboards in 3 bedrooms.
 
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Old 12-11-20, 08:25 AM
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Yardnut, The remark about paintings walls (although that was not you concern). Often these threads will take on a more general tone among members and stray from the OP's original question. Good for you to putting us back on track.
What your asking is unreasonable. Pro's are in business to make money and a living. Even if you pay a premium price they can't take the "time" you require. You don't want a professional painter, you want an artist! You said so yourself, you don't have the time to do it yourself and you expect a guy who makes a living at painting to spend that kind of time? Not going to happen.
Look at the practical side of things. As long as the job looks good from an overall picture or glance (you even said skip the closet inside since you can't see it. That tells me quality is not your prime concern as much as looks). And I agree with you that it should look very good. But at what price for perfection?
The trim, if smooth to begin with does not need to be sanded. If already primed, just paint it.
So let me understand this. Correct me if I'm wrong. The original trim is stained and you want to paint it? Is that correct? If the (wood) stain has a poly over it I don't think it's worth the time to sand it, strip it and paint it it. Buy new trim, paint before attaching and then touch-up where needed after installation. The money you spend on high quality paint can go towards new trim and a little less quality paint. Also if base board trim is being painted (as opposed to stained and poly) it will take a beating and show scuff marks and nicks a lot more than poly coated satin. So I would not spend a lot of time or expense on the coating. If you want the trim to hold up to all kinds of traffic then go with an oil base paint. Is this Advance paint latex or oil?
We all have different priorities and levels of what is important, but you asked our opinions and we responded in kind. I think your only going to get your high standards if you do it yourself.
 
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Old 12-11-20, 08:33 AM
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"That tells me quality is not your prime concern as much as looks)"

That is nonsense. I literally can NOT see the inside of the facing - WHY would I need it painted?

I don't feel that I am being unreasonable. I want a paint job that is smooth, and that will last. That looks professional. How is that unreasonable?


" The original trim is stained and you want to paint it? Is that correct?

Clearly, that is the case.

"If the (wood) stain has a poly over it I don't think it's worth the time to sand it, strip it and paint it it. Buy new trim, paint before attaching and then touch-up where needed after installation. The money you spend on high quality paint can go towards new trim and a little less quality paint. Also if base board trim is being painted (as opposed to stained and poly) it will take a beating and show scuff marks and nicks a lot more than poly coated satin. So I would not spend a lot of time or expense on the coating."

I guess that is your opinion. It is not your home. It is worth it to me, and I am willing to pay for that. As far as the baseboard "holding up", I already did the baseboard in my kitchen and dining room, 4 years ago. It has held up, literally, like new. It is JUST me that lives here - not a house full of kids and animals. No scuff marks or nicks.
And if you are not familiar with Advance paint, well, then you don't why I want it. It is a fabulous paint that holds up better than most anything else.
 
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Old 12-11-20, 09:13 AM
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I'm not disagreeing with you. Only offering alternatives. I guess the proof is in the pudding to coin a phrase. Let us know when you find that professional that will do the job as if you were doing it, at a price (even if it's high) and spend that kind of time.
I'm in the middle of doing a bathroom remodel (ripped out a shower stall) and need to purchase a custom pan ($2000 and up) because I refuse to alter existing plumbing, even though several professional kitchen and bath remodelers told me that would be the better choice. So I know about being stubborn and wanting what I want! But I also know that in this time of COVID, remodeling is a booming business. You can't find people (professional or other wise) willing to waste their time when there are low hanging apples from the tree to choose from.
Not to stray too far from the subject at hand, I can't believe the amount of major remodeling that is going around just in my local neighborhood. From interior remodeling to whole house additions. People are complaining that they can't get professionals. And delivery times are 10 to 12 weeks or more out. I was already told a custom pan will be 8 weeks delivery time. Many remodels are DIY just because they can't get pros to bother with it.
So I guess my final word is it you want it "just so" then DIY.
Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.
 
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Old 12-11-20, 09:23 AM
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"So I guess my final word is it you want it "just so" then DIY.
Good luck and keep us informed of your progress."

Not gonna DIY. Honestly, I am just TIRED of painting. And the crown is just a PITA for me so def not doing that myself. I have no rush on this...not something that has to be done in the next month or two so I will continue to try and find a pro that is up to my standards. I was just flabbergasted as so many here all gave me the exact same advice on what to do....like, THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT SO DO WHAT WE TELL YOU!! So I finally decided you all knew more than I did....and of course you were right! Everything I did looks fabulous. It was a helluva lot of work but I am beyond happy with how it has held up.

I will update the thread as to my progress. These are just a few pics of the hall I just finished.


After new floors, after baseboard was painted. Wish I had a pic before that - it was a very dark and dreary hall.

After I finished the hall. I love the new look, and the painting was an ordeal, but it was worth it.

This is a pic of some of the trim, before painting. The bottom wall was where wallpaper had been removed - all of that was primed and painted and looks beautiful now. But you can see why I want the trim sanded.
 

Last edited by yardnut; 12-11-20 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 12-11-20, 09:27 AM
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My SOP for painted previously stained/poly'd woodwork; sand, wipe down with liquid deglosser, apply oil base primer, sand and caulk when dry, then 2 coats of enamel sanding lightly between coats.

If it's old walls then I clean it (one coat usually does it), fill in any holes or blemishes, maybe prime it depending what was on it before then apply new paint. That's it. You'll never see the difference. Maybe Marksr, would if he was to examine it, but who does that?
My wife often fusses at me for discreetly inspecting the paint job most everywhere we go.
 
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Old 12-11-20, 09:35 AM
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My wife often fusses at me for discreetly inspecting the paint job most everywhere we go.
Why am I not surprised?
 
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Old 12-11-20, 10:13 AM
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"My SOP for painted previously stained/poly'd woodwork; sand, wipe down with liquid deglosser, apply oil base primer, sand and caulk when dry, then 2 coats of enamel sanding lightly between coats."

Well that is pretty much what I do as well. I do use B.I.N., which none of the painters that have quoted, EVER use. That alone was surprising to me. But I am willing to go along with that as long as it works. I guess my problem is that I know what works for me. I have not used any other primer on stained trim as I was afraid it would fail.

Hey how are you guys doing the "quote" in your replies? I don't have a quote button anywhere.
 
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Old 12-11-20, 10:18 AM
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Down in the reply section header. What I do is highlight the part I want to quote. Copy it, then hit the quote sign in the reply section then hit paste.
 
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Old 12-11-20, 10:41 AM
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Down in the reply section header. What I do is highlight the part I want to quote. Copy it, then hit the quote sign in the reply section then hit paste.
Got it! Thanks.



-------------------------------------------
 
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Old 12-11-20, 10:47 AM
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I do use B.I.N., which none of the painters that have quoted, EVER use.
I always use either BIN or an oil base primer. Both work well. There are some latex primers that claim to adhere well to oil base enamel or poly but as an old school painter - I don't have confidence in them [not saying that certain latex primers won't work well]
 
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Old 12-11-20, 11:21 AM
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Hand sanding is not going to get all the planer knife marks out, if that is what you are imagining. That should have been sanded before it was stained and varnished. But yeah, the big blemish should be filled and sanded.
 
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Old 12-11-20, 01:30 PM
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Hand sanding is not going to get all the planer knife marks out, if that is what you are imagining. That should have been sanded before it was stained and varnished. But yeah, the big blemish should be filled and sanded.
No. I am not "imagining" that LOL. Obviously, that blemish should be filled and sanded. That picture was taken AFTER I had sanded (you can see the bare wood in places), but before the blemish was dealt with.
 
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Old 12-15-20, 02:18 PM
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So, the last guy that I had in to do a quote, gave me an official "no thanks" this morning. He stated that he felt that I had my own way that I wanted it done and that he did not think I'd be happy with his method. He felt my way was just not what he wanted to do - and of course I knew that he did not like BM Advance when we first talked so I know that was part of it.

I looked around online some more, and I called a company that has a decent rep, and told him the story. He agreed that my method was good, and that if he was an individual painter, working on his own, he would absolutely take the job and do it just as I had specified. But he did not have the time to supervise his painters that closely to ensure that they did not take shortcuts, and he felt that it would not be a good match. He was really super nice though, and I appreciated his thoughts - they echo what some of you have said here. He suggested that I look for an independent painter - one that would be much more able to accommodate my wishes.

I kept looking and have now found another company (individual painters are hard to find!!) that has fabulous reviews, and we had a long talk about my job. He was actually very pleased to hear "how I painted" because he has his own rigorous standards for his painters. It's a different type of company - no subs, all staff painters, with benefits, and they have training constantly to make sure that they are all performing at the level of quality that he insists upon. He will be coming out to quote my job this week. Fingers crossed!!

 
 

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