I do not have kids myself. I have seen parents use the "time out" method which seems futile to me from what I have seen of it. I was spanked as a child and after one or two times, I learned not to do that particular thing again as opposed to 20 or more "time outs". I have heard of kids threatening parents with a call to social services for the mere mentioning of spanking when they misbehave. One mom I knew had an effective way to counteract this. She said to "Go ahead, but it will be your last phone call". Personally, I feel that the state should stay out of a parent's house if there is just occasional spanking on the butt. Considering the way the government is running the war on drugs, I find it hard to believe that they know what is best for every child. Just to let y'all know, I am 28. I am letting you know this because some people thought that I was at least 40 when mentioning spanking a kid not being permanently harmful.

 

Problem with it is some people can't differinciate between spanking and abuse. My siblings and myself were spanked and some of our friends were not and they grew into spoiled brats. Guess the parents didn't do it right. My kids don't get spanked as often as I did but they have felt it enough to know the belts not far behind a couple of warnings. Whether it's a felony or not I doubt it but you could check it out.

I sometimes joke that I use the time out method. I say after the spanking they get to have a time out to stop crying. When I do spank I think it's the shock more than pain cause there is no way my spankings hurt.

 

The weakness in the balance between a quick swat and a time out is that you cannot negotiate with small children. It is moronic to think that you should have a discussion and time out when the problem is a child standing up in a chair. You can talk all you want, but a quick swat creates focus.

On the other hand, some people need to determine which battles are important. Children need clear rules and goals. Parents need to stop a problem before it gets out of hand. Rearing children requires consistency. I liked the comment I read once about never spanking a child when you are angry.

To me, spanking is like any other punishment. It should be swift and sure, not delayed. How does the saying go? Justice delayed is justice denied? But spanking works. I bet our children weren't spanked more than a handful of times in their lives, but it did the trick.

I agree that the government needs to stay out of our lives. Print the money and guard the shores.

 

Amen and Amen to that!!!

My MIL is a huge proponent of the time out method, and the condition of the house and the fact that the kids have a hard time getting to sleep when she watches them attests to the fact that it does not work. if im sure that they heard me the first time, a quick swat indeed gives focus, and the job gets done!!!

 

Agree 100%

 

The subject of spanking kids is one that is hotly debated. Some defend the right or duty on social or religious grounds in order to mold child behavior.

If we spanked (lashed?) adults for petty crimes, this would be a human rights issues. It was once legal to to hit women, children, and employees.

There are many studies that show that spanking may alter short-term behavior. There are even more that show that children who were spanked are more likely to be aggressive and violent. Thus, hitting tends to provide a short-term solution that may create long-term behavior problems.

Most parents don't physically abuse their children with the swat on the seat of the pants. Those parents who do abuse children tend to defend the abuse in the name of discipline. Since laws have addressed the right to hit children, the rate of children killed and seriously injured has dropped.

As a victim of severe child abuse and later spousal abuse, it is a wonder that I have survived. I am currently involved in organizing a local Domestic Violence Coordinating Council here in Eastern KY. One of our goals is to coordinate with the local school system to teach children "Do Not Hit."

In Southern Appalachia we have a high rate of poverty, homelessness, and domestic violence. Some attribute it to a legacy of a hundred years of a boom and bust coal economy and a legal system that once viewed women and children as property. The only way to break the cycle of violence and is through education, modeling appropriate behavior and coping skills, and learning alternative ways to guide and discipline our children.

 

Sorry I am late with this post...haven't been on the website in a while...

twelvepole: VERY WELL SAID!!!

I live in Lexington, Kentucky and know a little bit about the eastern KY thing.

I, personally, will not strike my child. She is 19 months old and tests me constantly. She is at the very defiant age, and is not old enough yet to understand the "time-out". I am always yelling "No" at her, but I pick my battles for what is important (things that will harm her, when she is tearing something up, etc.). Right now, the approach is to remove her from the problem and distract her with something else (after I have made it clear that I am not happy with her). I will NEVER use physical force on my child. Her father was subjected to violence when he was a child, and he agrees with me 100% - it serves no purpose other than to strike fear in your child. I think hitting your child ("spanking" is just an acceptable word for hitting your child on the butt) tells him that violence is acceptable and it's an OK way to react to anger. It may stop the behavior immediately, but I don't think it is helping them LEARN anything. To discipline without using physical force takes much more patience and energy, but will be well worth it.

I know this is a hotly debated topic and everyone is entitled to parent their own child however they feel is appropriate (as long as they don't think it is appropriate to "leave a mark" on a child)...this is just my opinion and I wanted to share it for all the non-spankers out there.

 

Spanking, in my opinion, should be a last resort. Of course, I'm basing this on my 10yo, 12yo, and 16yo - and me 'growing up' with them. They are old enough to talk to and understand what I'm saying today.

Then again: what is someone's definition of a spanking? Mine is a small, attention getting hitting of the hand or bottom. Not enough to cause pain, only attention getting. Hitting a ruler on a table or counter is attention getting, too. Others may view spankings as mark leaving, pain inflicting (long or short term) actions. I've spatted hands, inflicting the tiniest amount of pain possible on a baby's hand when they're reaching for a knife or other object that can seriously hurt them. I, at that point, want them to associate 'pain' with the object they're reaching for since they aren't old enough to understand the danger involved. Most of the time taking the child, making them face you and telling them no is enough. This last deal works well with my 2 yo niece. I don't jerk her to face me, just turn her towards me, kneel down, touch her face gently and tell her 'no baby girl' and kiss her forehead. The may forget the next time she's here, but she remembers the duration of her visit here. I also give her alternative things to do. She knows which cabinet she can play in. Everything is there is child safe. Yes, she drags it all over the house, but she's safe and stays (for the most part) out of the other things she's not allowed to play with here.

With the older children, physical pain isn't as effective since they've been through childhood self inflicted pains (crashing on bikes, skateboards, etc) and have a higher tolerance to physical pain. I have a choice, inflict higher levels of pain physically or 'hit' them where it really hurts: being grounded from bikes, friends, stereos, telephone useage, internet access and hair appliances. Yes, restriciting a 16yo from hair appliances is traumatic and punishment!

Choosing the appropriate punishment is hard for a parent. If a child is acting out by dressing or acting permiscuos (don't know how to spell it) then the restrictions and /or punishment would have to be related. I have to be aware of other behaviors and the environment which they occur.

Unfortunately most parents or guardians don't have the time or don't want to spend the time enforcing these restrictions so they resort to physical violence. How many parents or guardians want to spend time playing guardian of the telephone? I just now had to do that. My phone is in my daughters bedroom. This isn't allowed. You would be surprised at how you can keep your children on the right track if you listen to their phone calls or put them in a position where they monitor themselves since they aren't allowed to speak in private with their friends on the phone. Another reason for this rule in my house is that the 16yo receives and makes calls all during the night. The rule in our house is no phone calls after 9 p.m. After breaking this rule many times, the rule became no calls received or made from friends after 9 AND no telephones in the bedroom period.

This may sound cruel to some but these are the benefits that I've discovered. Benefits for my daughter, not me. She is selective in her friends moreso today than before, she no longer allows boys to talk abusively, sexually or controlling to her, she spends more time outside and with the family as opposed to having the telephone stuck to her ear the entire day while laying in her bedroom. Hard on me, yes, but building better lifeskills for her. I have gotten up many times in the night to find the cordless gone, and the light (in use light) on the base on. I simply unplug the telephone cord and go back to bed. This is highly effective since at one point we went without telephone service period for about 6 months - my children don't want that to happen again. A moms gotta do, what a moms gotta do.

Kay

 

I saw this thread and couldn't help myself. I just turned 18 and I was "physically abused" by my father until I was almost 17, that's when I brought it to a teachers attention (it's nice to be able to trust a teacher). My dad had to go talk to the local social services. I now usually stay away from my father since the family dislikes him and my mother is also to blame since she works for a lawyer and totally ignored me getting hit. Sometimes I was on the ground getting kicked and would be bruzed, infact I was often beaten for very small things since my father got mad over anything. So now I have a strong dislike for him and will NEVER forget what he did to me. I now realize that when I get angry, I often get violent and uncontrolable, however, this only happens with me and not my brother since my brother never really spent time with my father so I picked up on my fathers bad habbits. I am the middle child, but I don't know if it has anything to do with the matter. My point is, a tap - sure, a slap - sometimes, pushing - never, and use of a belt, hose, rope, or anytime you physically disipline your child to the point that it left a mark then you are a child abuser. My dad would use the excuse "I got worse when I was your age", well maybe if he didn't get hit when he was little, this matter would have never come up. Break the cycle and don't do it to your children because they will remember it FOREVER. If I knew 8 years ago what I know now, I would have done it a long time ago.

Thanks for letting me vent out 18 years of frustration!!!!

 

Children who grow up in abusive households tend to opt to be either the opposite of their parents (mower17 & myself) or they opt to be like them. I, too, suffered like mower17. Sometimes I still have thoughts, like mower17, to blame my mother for not protecting my brothers & me, but she, too, was a victim of domestic violence and had no power to protect her children. These feelings are quite common and natural.

Anything that was handy was a weapon. I forgave my parents because they did not know better. They should have, but they did not. This was in the days when household dynamics were hush-hush. There was no media coverage or social services waiting to jump into domestic violence reports. My teachers saw the bruises and switch & belt marks. I have one memory of a 3rd grade teacher rocking me in a rocking chair. I don't remember why, but I can imagine. I was crying.

Studies of family dynamics do place value on the place of birth order within the family. I was 1st born and thus a leader & protector. My life was to be the protector of my mother who was the greatest victim of the violence. I was robbed of a childhood and have always been a warrior. But, I do not hit. As little as I am, it would place me in a position where I would be easily defeated in a confrontational situation. I have been in a physically abusive situation as an adult and have been as lucky to survie it as my childhood. My body talks to me every day from neck damage and stomped ribbed cage and joints. A constant reminder that WE DO NOT HIT.

The "children in the middle research" tends to reveal that those kids tend to be lost in the shuffle and often feel "set aside" by subsequent siblings and those who arrived before them. (I have always reminded middle children when counseling them that the best part of a sandwich is always in the middle!) The youngest (the baby) tends to get from parents a lot of attention, compensation, and forgiveness for mistakes made with previously born children & often turn out much differently than other sibs (positive or negative depending upon learned coping skills & view of the world), and this often compounds the problems of the family dynamics. Many in our society refer to the "youngest" as spoiled.

Mower17, you will continue to vent years of frustration even if you think you have vented it all. You can do it here in our semi-public forum, with me personally (I will guarantee privacy), and you will continue to do it with yourself personally.

I often heard the excuse, "You are lucky, I got worse than you. Forget it and go on." You don't forget & it is difficult to forgive. But somewhere along the way, we learn to make peace. Our parents did the best they could based upon the life skills their parents presented them with and the coping skills they inherited.

As adults we must move on. Life is too short to not do so. As much as I was abused, I would like to have my parents return from death to me. I miss them terribly. I have learned to cope & forgive. They never once told me they loved me, but I'd still love to spend time with them.

The only way to end the cycle of violence is to realize the difference between wrong & right. We do not use our abuse as an excuse to acquire bad habits or copoing skills of parents or others we were exposed to as children. At some point in our lives we must assume responsibility for our personal behavior and our behavior toward others. Yes, I know, coping skill research tends to show that it is transgenerational. But, as individuals, we have the power to stop the cycle of violence and change our perspectives of ourselves, others, and how we cope.and stop the blaming.

Thank you, mower17, for reinforcing everything I have ever believed in. We have the power to not repeat our parents' bad habits and how they treat children and others and how they cope with life's problems. We have the power to move on and to create new generations.

I have the scars on my soul and my body, but I would never do that to another human being. We DO NOT HIT.

I am currently involved in organizing a Domestic Violence Coordinating Council in Eastern KY. My personal focus is public education and getting programs in place in early elementary schools here that focus on "You Do Not Hit." We have to stop the Cycle of Violence.

 

I was abused by my Mom with a belt. She left welts on the back of my legs more than once. She had a problem with alcohol and a terrible temper.

I had determined I would not spank. However, when my son was 2 and wasn't listening to me no matter what I tried, a family member advised me to spank firmly and without anger. I gave it a try and I am not sorry that I did. It made the difference.

By the time that my son was five or six the only time a spanking came into play was when he hurt someone purpusefully. And in recent years (he's 13) I have only spanked a couple times when his attitude was simply outrageous and in my opinion, in need of a firm adjustment.

I sure won't get into an argument with anybody about the merits. I just know that it worked for us. I have never spanked in anger and I have always seen my son's attitude change after receiving one.

Kelly

 

Kelly that is a great example of a good parent.

My kids are now 10 and 7 and this type of disapline is what worked for me. It is very rare that I have spank either one. It's not fear they have for me it's a respect. My kids are as happy as a cat in a fish store and so am I.

 

Well HELLO!

Still alive and kicking!

And about this spanking....
I was spanked as a child.
I was also held, cuddled, and loved without restriction.

This was of course by my mother - my father is a different story.

I never felt abused by her, tho our relationship has changed (she's not liking me so much right now because the father of my children and I are divorcing).
I have spanked one of my daughters - once. Then I got on the phone and called my-then husband and cried. I felt so guilty.
I come from a family where abuse ran rampant. My mother stopped it in her generation. I refuse to let it begin again with me. I am usually great with distraction and a good no.
I HAVE found that a swat on the hand is sufficient for my little angels. (ages 4, 2, and 1)
They are learning. And my oldest is now capable of actually going into the discussions and reasons why she shouldnt be into something instead of just telling her no.

My hope is that they will grow up to be beautiful and successful women who I can be proud of - and who I can spend a lifetime loving.

And I know that my ex has swatted their little defiant behinds a few times - but NEVER out of anger, and has always picked them up and held them afterwards while he reminds them that that is a no-no. He too uses that as a reminder that what they are about to be hurt by what they were attempting to do.
He adores them as much as I do!

I want to see a good, healthy relationship associated with my girls and everyone in my family.

I want too to see them grow up happy and well-rounded.


I have found that spanking is not for me personally - but I will not tear down someone else who is capable of gentle discipline in that arena.

I know that this subject is particularly touchy these days, but I stand firm in my belief that all parents and all kids are different and while - taking away the hairdryer - works with some and - grounding - works for others - but a tap on the rear works for others. I would never approve beating anyone - dont get me wrong; but a tap thru a diaper also doesnt inflict any pain on the receiver...more so on the giver.