I have taken this child to the doctor to be tested for ADD, AdHD, and maybe an underlying illness that is causing this behavior. At the moment, Ian is in his room hollering, not constantly, but every so often. Some of it is just hollering, some he shouts 'I'm not a baby'....

He is confined to his room because I told him that it is after dark, and he needed to come inside. This starts the "I'm not a baby routine" and I don't know what to do. I've tried to listen to it, and give him extra responsibilities around the house and yard. I thought maybe that I was treating him like a baby. Personally I don't believe that children should be running the streets after dark, even though we live in a good neighborhood. No adults are outside, in face, no one but his cousins were out there with him.

He went into his room and locked the door. He pushed his toybox up against it and pronounced that "nobody was getting in there and he wasn't coming out". Okay, two seconds later the boy is out causing problems with his sister who is sick. I sent him back to his room and told him that I wouldn't be 'getting in there' and to keep him from being a liar he had to go back in there and 'don't come out'.

Okay, its late and I need to fix supper. Have been trying to put it off until my husband gets home, but apparently he's working very late tonight.

-Kay

 

Your family has been through quite a bit of stress lately with the departure of the older siblings. The 9-year-old may feel much older within the ranks of the remaining siblings, now that the older ones have moved on. He may be testing the waters!

Many behaviors are best ignored. Choose your battles carefully. Safety is a battle that is important. Children should not be outdoors after dark unsupervised. That's that. That's the Kaybyrd household rule as well as the rule in most households. Be consistent and enforce it, no matter if your son does lock himself in his room. He will emerge for food and water and the bathroom eventually.

In a calm voice, repeat, "Other people may let their children play outdoors after dark unsupervised. I do not allow my children to do so because I love them and want them to be safe."

"I'm not a baby!"

"Yes, I know. Because you are not a baby, you should understand that children should not play outdoors after dark unsupervised. Good parents keep their children safe."

"I'm not a baby!"

"Yes, I know. I know your cousins get to play outdoors after dark. I will worry about their safety and you should too."

Ignore. Ignore. You have stated your rule and made your reasonable explanation why. You did not simply state that they could not play outdoors after dark without giving a reasonable explanation. Always explain why you said no.

Unless he physically attacks the sister, she too needs to learn to ignore inappropriate behavior. You can explain to her why it is important to ignore inappropriate behavior no matter how much we don't like it. People do a lot of things to get attention. When they are ignored, they eventually go find something else to do if they don't get the response they are looking for to reinforce their behavior. This is something that should carry on throughout life, and it is a good lesson to learn as a child.

http://parentingteens.about.com/libr.../aa020100b.htm

A 5-page article on Power Struggles:
http://family.go.com/raisingkids/chi...1fa_power.html

Don't wait until the Dad gets home. Don't tell your children, "Just wait until your Dad gets home." You are the parent. You enforce the rules. The Captain doesn't tell his men, "Just wait until the the General comes." You are the Captain. Deal with it. You must earn the respect of your children as a parent.

Say what you mean. Mean what you say. Say it in a calm voice. Be consistent. If the kids can't play outside after dark unsupervised. That means never. Not just today or this week. That doesn't mean that can stay out late next month catching lightening bugs or playing hide and seek in the dark. It means never, unless you are outside with them.

A lot of negative behaviors in children are unconsciously and unknowingly taught to children because parents get into a cycle of reinforcing negative behaviors. Some kids will do anything for attention, even if it is punishment. Learning to pick and choose battles and to ignore attention-getting, inappropriate behaviors tends to minimize reinforcing negative behaviors and our training them to behave inappropriately.

Attention Deficit Disorder
http://www.ld-add.com/Whatis.htm

A Different Twist on ADD--a must read!
http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/index9.html

 

My mom let me read what you posted and I wanted you to know that it helped me just to ignore him.
Its going to be hard though he can be an annoying brat!!!!! Well I got to go
Love Always
Meagan

 

Hello, Meagan!

I had three brothers and a mother and father. I learned early on to ignore inappropriate behaviors. I usually kept my nose in a book. In school, there were always those smarty pants kids looking for attention. I simply ignored them. Some people are desperate for attention. Any kind! One of the dirtiest tricks is for kids to call other kids names. If you let them know it bothers you, you will be stuck with that name for life! My initials were P. P. You can imagine how many kids tried to get me on that one. I just bit my tongue and ignored them. I knew if I got upset, I'd be stuck. Other kids were stuck with names like 'Fatty,' 'Bobby Socks,' 'Stinky,' 'Zit Face.' You get the picture? Don't ever lower yourself to someone else's level, no matter how much you are tempted to do so.

I got an inappropriate email today from someone I knew. I would just love to write them back and tell exactly what I think of them. I will just bite my tongue, not give them the pleasure, not lower myself to their level, or engage myself in unintelligent conversation. I am not a kid any more, I'm over 50.

If you learn the lesson early on, it will carry you through life. Ignore inappropriate people and inappropriate behavior.

Regards,

P.P.

 

Hi As you may now know My screen name here is Furball ( the name of my cat) and I think you know my 9 yr old demon brother!!! (About the way he acts) One day he will get over it and one day he'll find out that the way he acts is not a soultain to any thing , and its going to lead him to NO friends what so ever!!!
He will find out the hard way I guess
Furball
Meagan

 

Great advice, twelvepole. My son is also 9, and you could have taken your words right out of my mouth. I rarely ever have to tell my son anymore that it doesn't matter what so-and-so gets to do, or how late the other kids get to stay up, or whatever it is. I've been telling him since he was a toddler - I'm the mom, I love him and I want him safe, therefore I make the rules for my son - no one else can do that because no one else loves him like I do. He rarely even questions me anymore - he just knows that I make the rules that I do because I love him so much. He does not traipse around the neighborhood like many of the other kids. Other parents come to my house looking for their kids, assuming that they are here. Many times they are not. My son sees that, and believe me he understands why my rules are what they are. I cannot even fathom not knowing where in the neighborhood my child is, or who he is with. Rules are rules, and you are right - say what you mean, and mean what you say. Yes it is hard, but wow is it worth it.

 

I think my biggest key to success today with Ian was remaining calm. Almost mono-tone in my manner of speaking. Usually I 'fake' being calm, but he can tell the difference. I remained totally calm cool and collected all day today, no matter what he could dish out. In fact, I was very casual about what I said. I wonder if sometimes when I speak to my children, how does it actually sound? Am I condescending when I speak to them causing them to act out (I'm not a baby scene), do I say things with such distraction that they feel I'm not paying attention to them anyway (doing what I just told them not to do), or maybe I say things with an I dare you tone of voice. Today, in my mind I said 'I love you' before I actually spoke, and afterwards, I actually said it. I wanted to make sure that whatever rules I set for my son were pure no-because I love you and care OR yes-because I love you and this is a good choice for you.

Patricia, I wholeheartedly agree with you on the ADD ADHD deal. I thought maybe I had been ADD or ADHD as a child growing up, but in my 30's I saw a therapist. Through her help, I discovered otherwise. I had two, mom is still alive, very wonderful parents. I had everything a kid could want (point 1 for mental illness). I usually obeyed my parents, I was just that kind of kid in that everyone seemed to know better than me what was best for me ("because I said so", and another point for mental illness), however, I was missing uncondition acceptance for ideas, dreams and hopes of my own. I soon lost them. I also didn't feel that my parents cared (Meagan suffers from this) because I was the 'good' kid so I didn't get the attention my brother's got. I was also never spanked because I was a 'girl'. All in all it boiled down to that I never trusted my own heart since I 'believed' everyone else knew better (boy did that one get me in some spots!), and also believing that my parents loved me but didn't care about me. That last discovery was the most freeing in that those two feelings don't make sense together. My mom today does tell me that even though she doesn't understand why I chose to be different (I don't wear makeup often, cut my hair short, don't like dresses-although I'm not really different, just different than she imagined a little girl growing up to be, no Miss America wanna be here!), she tells me how proud she is of me, and best of all, how proud she is that I'm her daughter.

I think that maybe in trying not to be like my parents, I have gone over too far in the other direction, plus still have some of my parents' parenting techniques in there too. I just need to let go off it, and follow my instincts and my heart. Thank you all for both affirming my instincts (still need that after all these years) and also helping me see life and my children as individuals with a 'different' set of glasses.

-Kay

 

Most opt to either parent the way they were parented or to do the opposite. I chose to do the opposite. As an abused child, I realized when I was 9 that all was not right with the world. I also realized kids deserved better. Being a kid, I knew what kids needed. I never forgot it. I gave it to my kids. My parents never gave it me. I have never used their shortcomings as an excuse for any of my behaviors, and I pray that my children will never use my shortcomings as an excuse for theirs. We hear too often today the excuse, "Well, you can understand. His parents were ..." We live in a society that tends to place blame and fails to teach responsibility for one's behavior. How many kids do we know that got out of speeding tickets or other trouble because they were the son or daughter of someone 'special' in our community?

I gave my children love, understanding, respect, encouragement, support, motivation, and a happy, healthy environment in which to thrive. When it came to discipline, I was always firm and consistent with explanations why we have to have rules. I was not always very popular with my children.

Kids need limits. They need to know their limitations and boundaries. If not, they will keep testing until they find them. And, they will do it for attention, even if it is negative attention. You've seen the kids at the mall with the purple and green hair and all the metal and body piercing. Now you know why they do that.

My old standbys were "When you do ........, then you can do......." "If you do..........., then you can do........." That always produced more positive results than, "If you don't do......., then you are going to be punished." The latter, tends to challenge a child to go ahead and do....... just to see if you will carry through with the punishment. A smart parent won't set a kid up.

Always use a calm voice, even if it does sound forced and monotone to you. Don't lose your cool. You lose your cool, and they know they gotcha. Again, there are many behaviors to which you should offer no response, such as the "I am not a baby" scene. Or, one of the worst scenes I've seen, "I hate you. I hope you die." Learn to ignore.

Kids start throwing tantrums when they are very young. Remember the terrible twos? How did you react? Did you rush over during the tantrum and try to soothe the child who is throwing a tantrum because he did not get his way? Such a parent says no. Then reinforces the tantrum with hugs in trying to calm the child. And, many parents end up letting the child have its way anyway. What did the parent teach the child? The child learns he can get a lot of attention with those tantrums, and, if lucky, may end up getting what he wants. If it worked once, why won't it work forever and with everyone? Did you ever see someone in line at the bank or a store who throws a tantrum because they have to wait or they did not get what they wanted when they wanted it? Wonder where they learned that?

As we parent our own children, we tend to reflect on our own parenting. We know in our soul what our parents would have done to us. Now, we are being tested. Do we do what they did? Was it right for us? Is it right for my children? Am I a better parent? The only way to break the cycle of bad parenting is to become a better parent than our parents. Hopefully, we can model good parenting to our children, and they will be good parents for our grandchildren. That should be our goal. No one has perfect parents, even those parents who had good parenting can do a better job.

There have been a lot of books written about learning to parent yourself. These can be helpful for adults who need to learn to set aside the emotional baggage that burdens them. Many have suitcases full of pain and sorrow because they were robbed of many things their parents failed to give them. Today, there are many kids who get everything they want, but are they getting what they need?

We don't get a handbook with all the rules and answers for parenting. We simply have a baby one day and our job is to keep this kid healthy and alive and prepared to go out into the world to be a successful, happy, responsible adult. How are we suppose to do that? They gave the recipe for the chocolate chip cookies, and that was all.

 

I will just stand firm. For some reason that is hard for me. I've been taking care of myself better lately, and seeing to my needs. It is helping with my attitude with the kids since before I would end up resentful. I have a long way to go, but I believe that the kids and I can grow up together beautifully. There are times I would like to send them away to their father's house, but I do remember why I left him and don't want him to abuse the kids like he did me.

Just loving myself and my kids, respecting myself and my kids is going to be the first priorities and the rest should follow into line. How can my kids love or respect me if I don't...love and respect myself. How can they love or respect others if they don't love and respect themselves. Could be a terrible cycle to be passed on throughout their lives and their children's lives if I don't break my bad cycle now.

Thanks again!

-Kay

 

Like I said before, Kaybyrd, you are one helluva woman.

 

Why, oh why, did it take me this many years to finally start getting a clue? May be due to the fact that therapy/self therapy was taboo or frowned upon 20 years ago when I had my first child. Or maybe since "it wasn't proper to air your dirty laundry", even if it is concerning the welfare of your family or a question on how to handle a problem situation. Mom always said (I know, flick her off my shoulder) that these types problems sound like a soap opera (she prefered to ignore the situation than to deal with it). I beg to differ, my kids aren't married to their dads, since they're not really their dads, their evils twins aren't lurking around the corner......soaps are so silly I can't even watch them. Which is kind of funny considering back when I had my first child I used to schedule my life around my soaps and when they aired.



-Kay

 

I grew up with the same rules about "airing the family's dirty laundry." Of course, no one knew what went on behind closed doors at our house. We women grow up not sharing the pain of being a victim of domestic violence. We don't air our dirty laundry! Besides, we will look stupid. Or, if we call the cops, our significant others will kill us!

Tell one and tell all when it comes to domestic violence. Get witnesses and pictures of your bruises. Document. Keep a journal. Call the cops. Get a restraining order, despite the threats. No one else will look out for you. It's your responsibility. I've been there and done that.

There are, however, people who love to air dirty laundry--over and over again. You've met those people and you hear the same story over and over again. You begin to wonder. When in this world are they going to do something about their situation? They often never do. You tire of listening to the same story. You've offered your advice. Did they really want it? Do they thrive on their pain? Is it easier for them to complain than to take action and do something about their situation? It's difficult to learn new dance steps. To learn new behaviors. New ways of reacting to situations. To make changes. The soap opera drags on forever.

There are also those who thrive on the dirty laundry and pain of others. My mother was one. She lived a life of pain and did nothing about it. She loved to share the pain of others. I always wondered if it made her pain less significant. Soap operas occur in real life and on TV, and people do get addicted to the pain. Why? Do they make their problems less significant. My mother always said, "No matter how bad you think it is, someone has it worse."

Most of our coping mechanisms and how we deal with problems are learned from our parents. If they did a poor job of it, how is a kid really suppose to know? Unless, they figure it out on their own or are exposed to other parents with different coping styles? Some aren't intuitive enough to figure it out on their own and have not been exposed to alternative ways of coping. Sometimes it is necessary to seek the advice of a professional or perhaps a support group, a priest, or a good friend.

Good friends can become sticky situations. Real friends, of course, are not suppose to be judgmental and are suppose to love you despite your shortcomings. Yes, but most can not take the feedback of someone that is close to them. It is often best to share your situation with a stranger, someone who has an objective viewpoint and is in no way related to you or those involved in your situation.

Self-help books can be helpful. It's a zillion dollar a year industry. The book stores and book clubs and libraries have tons of these books. You can read them. Unless you have the motivation to change your situation based on what you learned in the book, you wasted your money and/or time. Thus, for most it takes that objective person, the expensive counselor, the priest, or perhaps someone on an internet forum. Someone who will tell you that you need to wake up and smell the coffee, to get motivated. Only you have the power to change your situation and how you react to those around you.

Guilt! Oh, my! If I do change, then what? I may lose my significant other. My kids may not like me. My friends may not like me any more. It is not a popularity contest. To change our lives, we must grab the bull by the horns and ride it--a day at a time. We learn from our mistakes. And, gee, we have made many of them. Yes, we could blame our parents, our significant others, our kids, or anybody but ourselves. But, we made the decision to react and do what we did whether it was appropriate or inappropriate, productive or nonproductive. We have to accept the responsibility for our own behavior. Chalk it up to "no one is perfect." Learn from it. Never make the same mistakes again.

With age comes wisdom, so they say. I don't know if it is so much the aging or that it is more so the fact that after so many times that we finally get the message. For some, like myself, being the good-hearted, give-the-shirt-off-my-back type of person who wants everyone around me to be happy, it seems to take longer for the message to sink in. To finally realize that I deserve better. That all is not right with the world. A lesson I thought I learned when I was 9.

Despite the grossly dysfunctional relationship of my parents, they remained together until death. The research reveals that over 50% of families today are 'blended' families where there are multiple marriages and siblings from those marriages under one roof. For people like myself who has no personal experience or background dealing with the problems of stepparenting or stepchildren, I realize such family situations tend to be far more complicated than the ones with which most of us baby boomers are familiar.

Stepfathers married the mother, not the children, as you say, Kaybyrd. At best, the research tends to show that the most successful stepparenting situations are those where the stepparent builds a good friendship relationship rather than one that is a parenting relationship. Thus, in your situation, the parenting technically falls upon your shoulders. To expect the stepfather to "step" in and parent like the real father should, is expecting too much. And, to expect your children to respect and to respond to the demands of a stepparent is also too much.

Kids have a way of resenting stepparents. "He's not my real father." "She's not my real mother." Such responses can cut you to the quick and put you on a real guilt trip. They can also make some people resent their kids because they don't fall head over heels in love with their new father like you did.

"He is not your real father. No one can take his place. Your real father did...... or did not do .............. I had to make a decision that would be best for me and you. I love him, ........... I do not expect you to love him. I would, however, appreciate it if you could cooperate and appreciate this man. He loves me. He loves you. He has our best interests at heart. Can you try to be friends? He is really a good person. Give him a chance."

 

I was married to two abusive men, one verbal the other physical. Run. Talk to the police, talk to social workers, talk to your neighbor...it could save your life and your children's lives!

Mike is a friend to the children, and I would never dream of shoving him into the 'father' role because they already have fathers. They have to respect him as an adult in the home. We back each other up in everything, and if we disagree on something the other has done regarding the children, it is always discussed later and NEVER in earshot or site of the children. We must have a united front or they will manipulate us.

My favorite self help books are those by John Bradshaw. Like Twelvepole said, you have to be willing to work what they offer, no matter how painful. Facing what has happened to you, or what you've done is painful, but can end up being the most freeing experience of your life.

I am fortunate to have a friend that wouldn't hesitate to drive the 3 hours it takes to get from her house to mine to stop me from doing something stupid. I don't hesitate to drive up there either. She and I don't hesitate to tell each other when we're way off base. Susie loves me, and everything she talks to me about is with love, even if it isn't something I want to hear. I am the same way with her. We gave up aiding, abeting and enabling each other years ago. That happened when we realized that we had a tremendous friendship and friends don't do that to friends. We love and protect each other to best of our ability, and DON'T lie to each other. We also discovered that not telling the whole story is just as bad as lying. Most times an email or a phone call is enough. We respect each other enough to listen to each other. I have the same relationship with my husband. I always hoped that I would find a man just like her, and I believe I did with Mike.

I will note that today has been a much nicer day with Ian. Explaining things to him the way that Twelvepole recommended has done wonders. I know your not a baby. I love you and no matter how old or young you are it isn't safe to play on that corner. The cars turn into the cove very fast and may not be able to stop in time if you're in the street....I love you (all) and would like you to stick around for a very long time, and not in a hospital bed, either! I even got a yes ma'm from Ian, and an I love you too from him.

I've always believed that words are ineffective without the proper presentation. Thank you all for helping me to see others ways to "present" my meanings and thoughts to my children.

-Kay

 

My closest friend is 4 hours away. A numb-butt drive for a skinny and overactive person who can't sit still longer than 5 minutes unless they are on the computer.

Mike sounds like a great guy. John Bradshaw was the life force of my graduate classes which were years ago. He cut no crap.

The perception of the family as a "mobile" reins in my mind. Any person or anything that upsets the mobile will tend to set it off in a state of imbalance. The others that hang from the thread will offset or imbalance themselves on purpose to maintain the balance, whether productive or not.

 

I still have an analogy that my ex-father in law gave me in my head...your's is much more vivid. I think of my family within a circle. There are other circles that are partially inside my circle-those being other family members (like Geometry) since I am also in my mother's circle.....

However, I have learned the hard way, or maybe could call it a painful way that I have to not allow my mom's circle in mine...detaching with love....maybe not totally pushing it out of my circle, just a little closer to the edge so its not in the middle. The other circles that intersect into my circle are also by choice. I do have a choice. I am now going to expand on my analogy to include the mobile analogy as well. My family's mobile is hung from a circle, if another mobile-also hung from a circle- moves too close and intersects with mine I will watch to see what affect is has on MY mobile. If it disrupts the flow, or causes imbalance then they will have to move their mobile away from mine, once again detaching with love.

Tumbleweed, thank you again for helping me to see clearer and more vividly my ability to control some of the environment around me. I can't change someone else, but I do have a choice as to how they can affect me and mine.

-Kay

 

If he is nine yrs old you should take him over your knee and spank his little butt. That will teach him.

 

Sorry, but spanking is not an appropriate parental behavior. I was beaten as a child and it only makes a kid more defiant. I am living proof and so are my siblings.

 

twelvepole,
I applaude your disdain of domestic violence.
However.
There's a HUGE difference between "spanking" (discipline) and a "beating" (abuse) to tie the two together (in my minds eye) limits the validity of your noble stance.
You're addressing two different scenarios with the same footnotes.

 

If you beat kids,you teach them violence and rebellion. I am living proof. I am 55 and you don't mess with me. I pack my hunting knives and wear big boots and hunting clothing. Yes, I am a lady, a prominent member of my community, and a major mover and shaker among community volunteer organizations. I am a Sunday school teacher and do everything I can do for my community. Yet, an abusive childhood and adulthood have left me ready to defend the folks I love and myself. I hate violencel but will deal with it if I have to.

 

twelvepole stated in a previous reply:

"If you beat kids,you teach them violence and rebellion. I am living proof. I am 55 and you don't mess with me. I pack my hunting knives and wear big boots and hunting clothing. Yes, I am a lady, a prominent member of my community, and a major mover and shaker among community volunteer organizations. I am a Sunday school teacher and do everything I can do for my community. Yet, an abusive childhood and adulthood have left me ready to defend the folks I love and myself. I hate violencel but will deal with it if I have to."



You obviously still have some issues that need to be addressed, and I wish you the very best....

 

That is just what I said Pucker Factor when I was ready her story.

I was beat DAILY for absolutely nothing (98% of the time). I don't carry knives nor were boots. I have 2 kids of my own and the belt comes out for attention and occasionaly gets used (but not BEATINGS...ya dig). There are plenty of 'time-outs" in the laundry room with a cooking clock that they can not argue with.

They are almost 5 and 6.5 yrs old....girl and boy and the boy was just diagnosed with ADD (no hyper)...thank God someone listened.

The almost 5 girl can read & write basic words...count to about 20 and colors like an artist.....the boy is a little pain but is a wiz at computers and music but has a rough time focusing and remembering easy things. We work with both of them every day....all day.

There is a right time for any discipline.....we as adults must use our brains and determine the appropriate action for the "crime".
...........i.e. If my boy STEALS green bears again from school (or steals anything else for that matter) he WILL receive the belt....a grounding.....removal of privledges....and whatever else I can think of. It has been about 10 months now since he was caught for the SECOND time and I doubt he will ever try something along that lines again. He has learned there are repercussions for HIS actions.....just like in REAL LIFE!

I say take action KayByrd and get involved with the solution....and the solution is NOT to have him locked in the room were he can fester. Tell him flat out NO...and mean it!!!!!!!!! You don't need to explain squat to a 9 year old. The answer is NO and game over....gotta problem with NO....You are the boss.....your boss says NO, right???

When my little girl started to "board up her door"....we took EVERYTHING out of the room. EMPTY baby. Then I took the door off. problem solved. She then EARNED back her bed....her toy(s).....her desk...her 'colors" and her door.

I always tell them..."They can get mad. They can get REALLY mad. That is OK to be mad. Everyone gets mad sometimes. But, they can not throw a fit, break things or be disrespectful to others. That would not help anyone."

Done

 

twelvepole,

You continue to swap "beat" and "spank" as if they're interchangeable terms. They are not.

 

Exactly. There is a world of difference. I have occasionally spanked my child, when it was warranted (granted it's not been often - he did not misbehave much), but I NEVER beat him. Ever. I also received the belt when I was a kid - went to school with welts on my legs. Did not consider it abuse then - but I hated those episodes. THAT was a beating. I'd never do that to my child.

 

If you disipline your children using fear they will never learn to self regulate their behaviors. If there is no fear to stop them from doing something then they may do it.
Of course there is a difference between beating a child and spanking a child. There are, however, many effective ways to disipline that do not include spanking.

 

Providing postive reinforcement for good behaviors tends to be far more effective than providing negative reinforcement for bad behaviors.

 

I agree with twelvepole on this. mellymel, did you have a question?

 

Unless I am loosing my mind. I was replying to a large thread on spanking??? I don't know what happed to the thread called "Disiplining Children". Looks like I started a thread but I did not. Then again maybe I am just loosing my mind.