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10-02-02, 02:37 PM
#1
misnomerny
Check Engine - Same Dance Different Day
Okay I spoke too soon - I was having the old check engine light dance with my 1994 Ford Taurus LX - 3.8L 6 cyl. I replaced the sensors and everything seemed great for two days. Then I was stuck in stop and go traffic for an 1 hr and 45 minutes. After I got through the traffic I came to a stop light and bingo the dance was on again. I noticed that if I shifted to neutral the check engine light went off right away. When I shifted into drive and started moving it took about 20 secs for the light to go out. Any deceleration like from 65 to 55 by applying the break or sudden demand for power like going up a hill causes the light to come on for the 20 seconds. I hooked up a test light and pulled these codes:
KOEO 11 111 111 - Key on engine off code indicating systems passed
KOEC 326 327 326 327 - Key on engine continuous memory codes
326 - from haynes - EGR Circuit voltage lower than expected.
326 - from MAP website - Pressure feedback EGR shows low pressure. EGR not seating or not seating intermittently
327 - from haynes - Value Pressure Transducer/Position sensor circuit below minimum voltage
327 from MAP website - EGR vaslue position is/was low
Does this seem to indicate that the EGR value is bad? Is there a quick test to determine that? If that is not the problem any ideas. I found one vacuum hose that was cracked and replaced it and that did not solve the problem. I don't want to dance this dance anymore. Thanks for any assistance
KOEO 11 111 111 - Key on engine off code indicating systems passed
KOEC 326 327 326 327 - Key on engine continuous memory codes
326 - from haynes - EGR Circuit voltage lower than expected.
326 - from MAP website - Pressure feedback EGR shows low pressure. EGR not seating or not seating intermittently
327 - from haynes - Value Pressure Transducer/Position sensor circuit below minimum voltage
327 from MAP website - EGR vaslue position is/was low
Does this seem to indicate that the EGR value is bad? Is there a quick test to determine that? If that is not the problem any ideas. I found one vacuum hose that was cracked and replaced it and that did not solve the problem. I don't want to dance this dance anymore. Thanks for any assistance
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10-02-02, 04:15 PM
#2
Joe_F
Sounds like a bad EGR valve and position sensor (if so equipped...it's the thing on top of the valve).
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10-07-02, 04:00 AM
#3
misnomerny
Ready to fly the surrender flag
Well let's see here is the manifest of components changed during this chase my tail drill:
2 oxygen sensors
1 vaccum hose
1 EGR/PFE value
1 EGR Position Sensor
1 PCV valve
1 Fuel Filter
upgraded gas grade from 87 to 89
unrelated - changed transmission filter and gasket.
The Check Engine still comes on. Have cleared the code each time so I get a clean reading of the diags when they occur. Guess I will need to throw in the towel and take it to a pro
2 oxygen sensors
1 vaccum hose
1 EGR/PFE value
1 EGR Position Sensor
1 PCV valve
1 Fuel Filter
upgraded gas grade from 87 to 89
unrelated - changed transmission filter and gasket.
The Check Engine still comes on. Have cleared the code each time so I get a clean reading of the diags when they occur. Guess I will need to throw in the towel and take it to a pro
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Posts: 11,474
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10-07-02, 04:26 AM
#4
Check the other egr vacuum line? Had to replace both on my sister's Windstar (same engine) due to deterioration (did NOT use OEM at $20/ea; substituted generic vacuum hose).
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10-07-02, 06:55 AM
#5
Joe_F
Did you clean out the EGR ports thoroughly? It will reset the light if you do not.
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10-13-02, 05:44 AM
#6
misnomerny
Rsolution to Check Engine Light on 94 Taurus
Finally got the check engine light situation resolved but not without having to bend over.
Took it to my mechanic and explained all the info about what I had changed out and what I read from the codes and suspected the problem to be.
Turns out they still had to put it on their test machine to pull the codes -
and it did turn out to be the vacuum solenoid control. Now here's where I bend over. The final bill was 281.00 and 102.00 of it was for then to hook up the diagnostics machine to tell them what I already told them. Their justification - In order to guarantee our work we need to see these codes for ourselves.
I just wish I had some avenue to have been able to order the vacuum solenoid myself but I could not find it anywhere online or in the auto parts stores.
In summary - learned a lot of neat things but also learned the mechanics will get their money some way some how.
Thanks Joe for your patience
Took it to my mechanic and explained all the info about what I had changed out and what I read from the codes and suspected the problem to be.
Turns out they still had to put it on their test machine to pull the codes -
and it did turn out to be the vacuum solenoid control. Now here's where I bend over. The final bill was 281.00 and 102.00 of it was for then to hook up the diagnostics machine to tell them what I already told them. Their justification - In order to guarantee our work we need to see these codes for ourselves.
I just wish I had some avenue to have been able to order the vacuum solenoid myself but I could not find it anywhere online or in the auto parts stores.
In summary - learned a lot of neat things but also learned the mechanics will get their money some way some how.
Thanks Joe for your patience
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10-13-02, 09:00 AM
#7
Joe_F
You can look at this a couple of ways:
1) You learned something.
2) The cost of this repair could prompt you to get a repair manual (such as the OEM manual) and be prepared for the next bout of trouble (Unfortunately, with a Ford Taurus, it comes fast and frequently).
3) The shop is right. In order to diagnose a problem you have to see the problem for yourself. If they took the word of the other shop and it didn't fix the problem, you, the customer would be an angry person and someone would be eating the repair, and you'd think the shop screwed you.
My vote is for getting some manuals if you want to repair it in the future yourself.
1) You learned something.
2) The cost of this repair could prompt you to get a repair manual (such as the OEM manual) and be prepared for the next bout of trouble (Unfortunately, with a Ford Taurus, it comes fast and frequently).
3) The shop is right. In order to diagnose a problem you have to see the problem for yourself. If they took the word of the other shop and it didn't fix the problem, you, the customer would be an angry person and someone would be eating the repair, and you'd think the shop screwed you.
My vote is for getting some manuals if you want to repair it in the future yourself.
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Posts: 11,474
FL
10-13-02, 02:41 PM
#8
You couldn't find the part??? I got replacement solenoid for my sister's Windstar (3.8L, I would assume same solenoid?) from CarQuest for about $50 wholesale.
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10-13-02, 08:24 PM
#10
sunday246
Oh Dear. I hate to be the only one but dare I suggest the salvage yard when you can't find or afford new parts.
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10-14-02, 02:03 AM
#11
misnomerny
Footnote - TAR - US (F)ix (O)r (R)epair (D)aily
Well guys I knew you'd treat me "kindly" but I thought it was worth it to post the resolution and just what it feels like from an ordinary joe's perspective of trying to do some car repair myself.
I deserve the acerbic insights.
In the end in summary I did end up replacing all the emissions control components that the Haynes Manual ( BTW I do own this manual. Very poor on the specifics for a 94 Taurus) says an individual can change out. If I can save someone else the pain of what I enjoyed it was worth it to glean the wisdom and advice offered here.
I deserve the acerbic insights.
In the end in summary I did end up replacing all the emissions control components that the Haynes Manual ( BTW I do own this manual. Very poor on the specifics for a 94 Taurus) says an individual can change out. If I can save someone else the pain of what I enjoyed it was worth it to glean the wisdom and advice offered here.
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10-14-02, 03:37 AM
#12
Joe_F
Using a Haynes manual to repair a car in depth is like using an adjustable wrench to build a house. Sure you might get there, but it will take you a while.
When you go to the doctor, you wouldn't want him to say, "Take this aspirin for your heart trouble and when it stops beating, call me". You'd want him to use the best to treat you.
In the same way, your car requires the right diagnosis, information, and repair to get it back to health. Which is why the Haynes manual is a table prop for any serious repairs.
When you go to the doctor, you wouldn't want him to say, "Take this aspirin for your heart trouble and when it stops beating, call me". You'd want him to use the best to treat you.
In the same way, your car requires the right diagnosis, information, and repair to get it back to health. Which is why the Haynes manual is a table prop for any serious repairs.
