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Clutch symptoms?


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12-24-02, 02:02 PM   #1  
Clutch symptoms?

I don't think I have any clutch problems right now, but... 1994 Saturn SC2, 1.9 DOHC, 145,000 miles, manual. The thing still gets between 30 and 34 mph. I let a friend borrow the car for trip to the store and mentioned that the clutch seems to need to come off more before the car started to move. I on the other hand I can tell no difference. Any pointers on what to look for? Far as I know the clutch has never been worked on. How long should the clutch last for(ballpark)? Can the pedal throw be adjusted?

thanks

 
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12-24-02, 03:52 PM   #2  
Joe_F
Depending on the mileage and type of driving, it's anything from "overdue" to "just breaking in". Depends on the driver and driving.

Check autolibrary.org through my signature file below for information on clutch adjustments, specs, etc.

Let us know what you find. A clutch job probably runs about 400 bucks or so on this car.

 
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01-02-03, 05:37 PM   #3  
If your clutch is cable operated, see if you can adjust it. If you don't know how, pay a local shop $20 to do it. If it's hydraluic, don't mess with it.

To test if it's slipping, try this. Take you car out and get your speed up to about 30-35mpg and put the car in 5th. At this point, floor it until you hit about 50. Did you notice the RPM's to rise, but the speed not increasing? If so, it might be slipping. However, if the RPMS went up smoothly at the same progression the speed of the car did, it's probably fine for everyday use.

Another trick is to take off in first and take the car to just shy of redline and shift into second very fast. If you are able to "bark" the tires going into second, it's fine. I don't reccommend this method as it's hard on the car. If it's a weekend warrior, then go for it. If not, use the first method and then don't worry about it.

Curt B. Shumaker

 
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01-03-03, 12:30 AM   #4  
Joe_F
Curt:

Your second method isn't only not valid, it's surely not recommended as you allude to. There are proper ways to check a clutch for slippage and wear. That isn't one of 'em.

Case in point: I could bark the tires in EVERY gear with my 79 Trans Am and it wouldn't tell me the clutch is good--just that it will go like a champ when you even blip the throttle.

Autolibrary among other sites have specs for clutch pedal play/give and this is an indication of a worn out clutch.

I recommend BSB go that route.

 
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01-03-03, 05:21 AM   #5  
Originally posted by Joe_F
Curt:
Case in point: I could bark the tires in EVERY gear with my 79 Trans Am and it wouldn't tell me the clutch is good--just that it will go like a champ when you even blip the throttle.
Ahhh, that car has nearly triple the horsepower of his Saturn which would almost require it to chirp any gear at any speed even with a blown clutch.

That test is valid and is used by folks who race their cars in SCCA events as well as local drag events. It's really to test the holding power of a car with bolt-ons and maybe even nitrous.

As you properly reminded folks of what I orginally pointed out, I don't think it's the best method. However, the first method I pointed out would be perfect for the everday driver like this individual sounds to be. However, the clutch may pass that test, but not be able to chirp the tires on the 1-2 shift. Does that means it's "bad?" No, just that it may not be good if you start performing modifications to the car. I could chirp the tires on a buddies Metro on the 1-2 shift so it has little to do with hp. It's about how strong the pressure plate is--clamping force--and how well the throwout bearing is releasing the pressure plate.

My point? I have none! .

Thanks,
Curt B. Shumaker


Last edited by Joe_F; 01-04-03 at 07:04 AM.
 
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01-03-03, 07:20 AM   #6  
Joe_F
Curt:

I replied because as you now admit it is the WRONG way to test a clutch. If it were the way, it would be commonly written in OEM literature that way.

No car should be shifted at the red line if you want it to last. And I know you know that. That's an excellent way to break something in any car by spooling it up to the red line.

Can you give the forum an OEM reference to testing the clutch in the manner you described? My 1979 Pontiac Service Manual doesn't say anything in that regard. It does show you how to check for clutch freeplay with a finger test on the pedal though.

Perhaps you have an OEM backed reference from a service manual you can provide us?

I also know that anyone who reads one of my posts and thinks it's spam or that I'm trolling around has a lot to learn on these forums. Got over 11k in posts on this forum helping folks everyday, yourself?

I'm a busy guy and I make sure accurate statements are given in this forum. I'm waiting for one from you, haven't seen it yet.

Provide the OEM reference for what you're talking about, and we'll talk shop. Maybe then I'll have that accurate statement I'm looking for .

As for reading posts correctly, you replied in another post to a poster with a '90 Accord that the O2 sensor was his problem due to rich mixture, open loop, etc.

Fact is the O2 sensor has NOTHING to do with open loop operation, it's a closed loop sensor as Stevo pointed out in that post and I agree with (as does the OEM literature ). I refrained from initially answering, but I knew it was wrong . Stevo gave an accurate picture of how the O2 gets involved in closed loop.

So, before trying to turn the tables and shoot your mouth off, do us a favor and look in the mirror first.

No one's "trolling" anyone here. Get over that and move on---you'll learn something.


Last edited by Joe_F; 01-03-03 at 07:57 AM.
 
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01-03-03, 08:04 AM   #7  
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe_F


Joe,

You know, you are right. I can't find a single reference that points to this being a valid test.

What was I thinking?

Curt B. Shumaker


Last edited by Joe_F; 01-04-03 at 07:06 AM.
 
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01-03-03, 10:26 AM   #8  
Joe_F
A lot of jabber from you, but no meat.

Where's the OEM reference to back it up? AAAAAHHHHH, you haven't one. Just as I suspected.

Tell me Curt: Would a ASE certified transmission shop, an OE dealer or a corner garage use your method to test for a worn clutch? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

There goes your experience. Hands on or not, you can't prove what you say is recommended. If it's not recommended, WHY WOULD YOU DO IT??????????

Newsflash: Here's where you're wrong. The OEM manual helps you fix the car. For a slipping clutch, for a clutch adjustment, for stalling, whatever. I suggest you read one. You need an education. The rest of the forum has one.

Curt: Once again, it's obvious you need some education in auto repair. For anyone to try to attack someone the way you do, it can only mean one thing---you can't hack it in the big leagues or hang with the crowd. Let's see some SOUND advice from you. Again, I have 11,000 posts worth on this forum. I've yet to see one from you. Years of experience, kindness, and dedication are on this forum.

Get on board or get off the board. Your choice.


1) You gave a poster advice to redline a car to test a clutch---wrong and not recommended. You can't prove that ANYONE recommends that procedure.

2) You told someone that an O2 sensor affects open loop operation---wrong again.

Shall I go for strike three or will you just intentionally strike yourself out and have a seat?

You got it straight---I'm a busy guy. But, I find time to come here and help out folks for free on this forum as do countless others here. That's what makes this forum great. Either you'll do the same, or you'll be removed.

I'd advise you to do the same----if you have the know-how. So far, I've yet to see anything of value from you.

Please don't make yourself the bug on the windshield---we all know what happens to folks who do that .

 
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01-03-03, 12:18 PM   #9  
Be careful with your threats...

I am done trying to argue with you.

 
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01-03-03, 12:40 PM   #10  
Joe_F
As am I. However, the forum administrator has been contacted with regard to your disparaging remarks about me, moderators and this forum. It is in their hands now, but knowing their track record, they do not take kindly to folks that seek to ruin a good thing we have here.

The forum is still waiting for you to provide an OEM manual reference to redlining a vehicle to check the clutch. Please provide us that piece of data as your advice states:

"Another trick is to take off in first and take the car to just shy of redline and shift into second very fast. If you are able to "bark" the tires going into second, it's fine. I don't reccommend this method as it's hard on the car. If it's a weekend warrior, then go for it. If not, use the first method and then don't worry about it. "

---Where in the OEM manual, TSB, or service literature is this recommended? The forum is curious to know it. Please provide backing for your statement.

Thanks

 
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01-03-03, 12:45 PM   #11  
Joe_F
FYI:

Autolibrary states for BSB's vehicle as follows on the clutch:

"The clutch is operating properly if:

It will stall the engine when released with the vehicle held stationary
The shift lever can be moved freely between 1st and Reverse gears with the vehicle stationary and the clutch disengaged "

I don't see anything with regard to redlining the vehicle to check for "tire bark". Curt, can you enlighten us on the printed source/URL/service manual page #/TSB that substantiates your advice?

Also, can you kindly draw up a post similar to what we use here called "The Basics" with your test procedures/knowledge and links for possible addition to the forum?

Knuckles, Davo and myself will review them and add to the knowledge bank we have.

I encourage you to do that. Thanks!

 
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