Electrical diagrams

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  #1  
Old 01-25-03, 06:06 AM
bigdane
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Electrical diagrams

Howdy,

I'm the more or less proud owner of two European Fords

1985 Ford Scorpio 2,0 injection
1991 Ford Sierra XR4i 2,9 inj.

Typical of these European Ford is that the electrical systems seem to be constructed by a bad mannered alien from outer space. Ford Motor Company states quite clearly, that the don't give a damn, and refuse to sell workshop manuals.

Anybody out there with w/s manuals for above cars (original or copies - not Haynes)???

I also own a '74 Dodge, no problem with manuals there - Chrysler Corp has an outlet through which they sell the manuals - prices from USD20 and up.

Ma nex ol' car's gonna be a Mopar!!!
 
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  #2  
Old 01-25-03, 08:18 PM
Joe_F
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You could try helminc.com who supply the US Ford manuals to see if they could help. I can't see why Ford of Europe won't sell you the manual.

Then again, Ford has always been strange. We do not get those versions of those vehicles here. We did get the XR4TI and other Merkur variants and all were colossal bombs not worth bus fare when new. I see a TON of those in the junkyards I frequent. I also don't see them there the next time---they get squished right away. LOL.

Is it a Ford dealer that is telling you they won't sell it or Ford of Europe? Inquire with another dealer. I cannot see why the dealer wouldn't sell you the manual---they can mark it up how they please!
 
  #3  
Old 01-26-03, 05:37 AM
bigdane
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Thanks a lot for the idea

It is unfortunately both dealers and Ford Motor in Sweden, who are totally uncooperative - Ford Motor Co., Sweden even suggested scrapping the car - "if you cannot afford a Ford workshop" - bloody cheek - I know more about cars than the complete staff at Ford Sweden.
 
  #4  
Old 01-26-03, 07:29 AM
Joe_F
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Sounds like an answer they would give. LOL. Might be tellin' ya something .

I would search outside Sweden----the product is probably well supported in England and in other European countries. In such case, use the internet (www.google.com is a great search engine) to locate someone that will sell you the right manuals and has them.

If you think that's far fetched, you might ask yourself why through Ebay, a gentleman bought a set of Accel 8.8mm wires from me. The catch is that he lives in Poland where parts are just not available for American cars there.
 
  #5  
Old 01-26-03, 11:42 AM
bigdane
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Thanks for your advise, but unfortunately, it seems to be a Ford Europe thing - I've been in contact with Ford connections in England, Denmark, Holland (which is normally a good try for such hard to get things), and the reply I get everywhere is: no go!!

I know, that several people have posted questions and critical remarks directly to Ford's European headquarters at Cologne, Germany, but those gentlemen not even bother to reply - that's the kind of treatment you get from one of the big three!!

I've tried Google, where I found a funny link to a Scorpio site in Estonia, where somebody put up the whole Haynes manual in PDF format - unfortunately the electrical diagrams are of a quality of use to noone.

I've been in contact with Scorpio/Granada forums - you name it, I tried it, that's why I took the odd chance of maybe somebody got a "rear entrance" that I didn't know about.

Thanks again

Regards

bigdane

 
  #6  
Old 01-26-03, 02:23 PM
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Smile

Here's something off the web that might interest you.


Many visitors here have asked where to buy Scorpio literature: owner manuals, service manuals, public relations material and so forth. There are several reputable dealers in obsolete automotive literature. You'll find some names & addresses in any issue of Hemmings Motor News, usually available at any significant newsstand in the first week of each month.

You'll want two manuals for certain: the shop manual and the electrical & vacuum troubleshooting manual. Ford is useless on this subject, but there are alternatives for the official FLM Scorpio publications.

The manuals were originally sold by Helm Inc.
Helm Inc.
Publications Divisions
PO Box 07150
Detroit MI 48207
(313) 865-5000
www.helminc.com

Here are two literature sources I've found helpful and honest.

Walter Miller
6710 Brooklawn Parkway
Syracuse NY 13211
(315) 432-8282
E-mail: [email protected]
www.autolit.com/home.htm

Bob Johnson's Auto Literature
21 Blandin Ave
Framingham MA 01702
(508) 872-9173
E-mail: [email protected]
Bob has obtained permission to republish the fully updated service manual for the Scorpio and for the XR4Ti. This is a breakthrough for Merkur owners, for which we owe Bob a huge round of applause. I urge you to contact him if you don't have a copy of the manual for your car, as there's no substitute for having one.
www.autopaper.com/top.htm

These are internet prices only.

Walk-in orders and telephone orders may cost more.

MERKUR Original Reprint Reproduction
XR4T1 all years $ 165 $ 125
Scorpio all years $ 165 $ 115


Every Scorpio owner should subscribe to the International Merkur Owners Network and its superb mailing list. Click on its name here for details.I guess that special cars and special people are just naturally attracted to one another. Thanks to Roland and all the others who've been here in the moments of need.
www.merkurowners.org
 
  #7  
Old 01-26-03, 02:36 PM
bigdane
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Thanks a lot - I'll get right down to it

There are, I have discovered some more or less important differences between the Fords and the Merkurs, but it seems to be mainly on the engine side, so I'll check up on your bright ideas, and as soon as I know something new, or get a good link or supplier, you can be sure that I'll post it here.

And you're right about Ford - them guys ain't no good - I just got off the phone with a bloke from England - he has "harassed" the Ford people there, why the heck, they won't sell manuals, and he finally got a letter from them, stating that "no major manufacturer sells original workshop manuals to the public" - No wonder Lee Iaccocca left Ford and went to Chrysler - it seems like the Ford people not only are negative to their own customers, they don't even know, what the ..... is going on in their own line of business!

Anyroad, (or is it anyway??)

Thank you very much for your ideas

Kind regards

Sven
 
  #8  
Old 01-26-03, 05:20 PM
Joe_F
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It might be Ford of Europe, because Ford here will gladly sell you the manual for the US Fords (It's done through Helm as Stevo said.)

Try them to see if they can help out. As Stevo said, used works too. I have all used (almost all) manuals for my cars...same information just with some "well worn" pages .

See what Helm can help with.
 
  #9  
Old 01-26-03, 10:17 PM
trendar
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I've got the OEM manual and wiring diagrams for the Merkur Scorpio; is there anything in particular you were looking for, or just for general reference at this point?

While some sections may not be directly applicable for your car, there may be a great deal of commonality, so if there's something specific you'd like, I can look it up for you-
 
  #10  
Old 01-27-03, 07:28 AM
Joe_F
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Be careful---the European unit may differ from the U.S. counterpart that came here.
 
  #11  
Old 01-27-03, 12:14 PM
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bigdane...just curious...do you have any of the original owners manuals for these vehicles? Here in the states they usualy tell you where to order service manuals from.
 
  #12  
Old 01-27-03, 12:33 PM
Joe_F
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E-mail Ford of the US and tell them your discontent with Ford of Europe and that you want to BUY the manual. They should be able to help you out and get you an order form for one.

Good luck.
 
  #13  
Old 01-27-03, 01:48 PM
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Yes email them and give them.....!

www.fordvehicles.com/help/contact
 
  #14  
Old 01-28-03, 12:10 AM
bigdane
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Hi guys,

Thanks a lot for all your kind responses and good ideas.

I'm going to take all suggestions, top to bottom (and back again, if I have to) - and try getting the manuals.

I'm quite aware that there are quite a lot of diffs between the Euro XR4i and the Merkur, but they are basically the same cars, so quite a lot of info should be the same.

(By the way - do any of you have a couple of Merkur hood/trunk emblems?? - Would be interested in purchasing them!!)

Again, thanks a lot for your advice, I'll get right down to it!!

kind regards

Sven
 
  #15  
Old 01-28-03, 03:41 AM
Joe_F
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Just be careful as there ARE critical differences in your model and the heap we sold here. Try, in all ways to get the right manual for your car---having "close enough" could mean a lot of frustration, problems, and maybe injury. Don't gamble.

As for parts for those---many parts here for that are obsolete with good reason. The vehicle sold poorly and was lackluster. Ford has dropped a ton of parts for it here, but it was a "hit" in Europe.

Try www.fordpartsonline.com to see if they can help you out. Again,the emblems may differ from the U.S. destined version.
 
  #16  
Old 01-28-03, 05:56 AM
bigdane
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Thanks a lot Joe_F

I'm quite aware that there are a number of differences, which may be critical - I've, however, scraped knuckles for a few years now, and quite apart from those specs. parts that are identical between the two cars, I have no intention of trying to rebuild my poor Sierra into a Merkur.

But thanks for the warning - I quite agree with you that wrong info is worse than no info.

As a foot note I can mention that I'm one of those squirrels (you know, with the etenal sound of the wifes: -"Must you really keep that old car junk?" in the ears), and I've succeeded in keeping every single workshop manual for every single car I've owned thru my 52 years, and that's quite a few feet of book shelf space.

From the start I was a Mopar man, and even though I've owned quite a few other brands, I suspect that I'll die a Moparist, too, - but Fords ain't bad either - they just got some different quirks than the Mopars.

btw: my oldest son (he, who thinks, he's gonna get the Sierra) wondered, if you know somebody with a couple of Merkur hood and trunk emblems - he claims that it surely would put some grey hairs in some heads this side of the pond.

regards

Sven
 
  #17  
Old 01-28-03, 07:45 AM
Joe_F
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I think if you do enough digging, you can get the needed manuals. If not, order the closest U.S. version. But, again, the wiring differs, the engine options differ and some of those engines may never have been offered here. All depends.

Use google.com to search for whatever you are looking for. It is one of the best search engines out there.
 
  #18  
Old 01-28-03, 07:35 PM
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Sven...Did you get the Email I sent you? Here's another address that has a ton of overseas links. http://ifn.cx/english.shtml

www.ebay.com had a few Scorpio Manuals for sale..one of them the description said he got the book from overseas Ford engineering. Also if I can help you out any further you can Email me. I am currently working on sending a fuel pump(93 Dodge Ramcharger) to a guy in Belgium..its been a challenge. Regards-Stevo
 
  #19  
Old 01-28-03, 11:42 PM
bigdane
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Hi Stevo2

Sorry, yes I got your e-mail.

I've already checked most available links through google and other seatch engines, but the e-bay, I missed for some reason - I'll check up on it

Thanks a lot

Sven
 
  #20  
Old 01-29-03, 04:14 PM
bigdane
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Originally posted by Stevo2
Sven...Did you get the Email I sent you? Here's another address that has a ton of overseas links. http://ifn.cx/english.shtml

www.ebay.com had a few Scorpio Manuals for sale..one of them the description said he got the book from overseas Ford engineering. Also if I can help you out any further you can Email me. I am currently working on sending a fuel pump(93 Dodge Ramcharger) to a guy in Belgium..its been a challenge. Regards-Stevo

Hey Stevo - what engine in the Ramcharger? - isn't that a V8 (or am I too old for this ....?)

The funny thing is, that the old Mopars, of which we have many here in Sweden, are quite easy to find parts for.

In the old days (read: pre-1980) SAAB used to be general agent for Chrysler, and that was, of course, a joke, letting one car manufacturer be general agent for another, but when they got kicked out by Chrysler (Oh, yes KICKED out), a very good friend of mine and his dad went all over Sweden an bought everything Mopar from SAAB, that they could put their clammy little paws on.

Result: A large warehouse filled with the most incredible parts and spares for pre-80 Mopars, that you can imagine.

This summer, the guy had a customer from Norway with a rather run down Dodge Lancer 62 - the front end was badly rusted, and the poor guy came to purchase a new rear axle for his love, at the same time mentioning, that he was going to a place further North in Sweden, because somebody there had a glass fibre flip front (second hand) at a price of around USD 800.

My friend looked at him, took him (litterally) by the hand, went down to the "sheet metal department" pulled out new (1962) front fenders, hood, front splash shield, front bumper and a few other goodies, looked at the Norwegian, and said: I'll have to have USD600 for the lot!! - The poor guy almost cried, - hired a motel room nearby, and used his week end to repair his inner fenders, and replace all the rusted parts.

So, if you have people contacting you from Europe with Mopar problems, throw a line or two via e-mail to me, and I may be able to help !!

Regards

Sven
(bigdane)
(these days, maybe I should change it to "fatdane" no PT in the wintertime here, Sir.)
 
  #21  
Old 01-29-03, 04:17 PM
Joe_F
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Parts go all over the world. I sold Accel wires to a guy in Poland, I mailed catalogs to Australia today, I've sold GM parts to a guy in the Canadian forces, etc,etc, etc.

No more does it only stay in the states. I think it's cool to see our stuff overseas. There is a VERY big appetite for American cars in Europe.

I get guys from Europe e-mailing me all the time about Trans Am stuff.
 
  #22  
Old 01-29-03, 07:11 PM
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Hey Stevo - what engine in the Ramcharger? - isn't that a V8 (or am I too old for this ....?)
He has 2 Ramchargers and both are 318 ci. One is a daily driver and the other for messing around. They wanted well over $250 for a fuel pump over there and he posted on www.ramchargercentral.com for some advice and help. Turns out he removed the pump from one and installed it into the driver so he could get to work at his Air Sea Rescue base. I'm partial to the older Mopars and GM's. My regular drivers are a 77 Dodge W200 Pickup with a 440ci and a 72 Pontiac GrandVille with a 455ci. I don't care for the new plastic cars, their high payments and high insurance. Keep in touch and I will keep you in mind about the old Mopar parts.
 
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