Engine replacement

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  #1  
Old 02-13-03, 11:24 AM
peanut44
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Engine replacement

I want to have a engine taken out of another car and put into mine. Is there any way for me to know that the correct engine was put into my car?
 
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  #2  
Old 02-13-03, 12:21 PM
Joe_F
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It would be a large help to know what model and year of vehicle we are talking about, as well as what the engine is coming out of and what it is going into.

The answer to your question is multifaceted. If you mean a COMPATIBLE engine, yes, it can be found out. You'd have to take the codes off of the donor engine (the "new" one) and find a resource that would have those codes and what they mean.

This is usually not an issue unless we are talking about classic cars where having the original engine that came with the car from the factory is key to the value of the vehicle.

If you blow an engine in an everyday car, a junkyard has resources to tell them which model the "new" engine should be removed with and what models they have in their yard inventory would have an engine which would work with your vehicle.

This resource is the Hollander Interchange manual. It tells which models use the same parts and assists the junkyards.

The short and sweet answer is to just call a junkyard and say, "I'm going to get an engine from X car. Will it my car which is this make, model and engine size.". The yard can tell you which vehicles use a compatible engine.
 
  #3  
Old 02-13-03, 12:51 PM
peanut44
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Engine replacement

Hi Joe,The engine is coming out of a 1992 Dodge Shadow and going into a 1989 Dodge Aries. What i meant was is there a number on the engine itself, so that I can be sure that I got the engine that i bought. I have been ripped off so many times in the past.
 
  #4  
Old 02-13-03, 01:07 PM
Joe_F
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If you buy the engine at the yard and then you see it show up at the shop that is doing the work, it will be tough to know if you got the one you paid for. You'd have to follow it through the process to where it comes from to where it goes to .

Any used engine is a gamble. You could buy one with low mileage and it could be junk. You could buy a high mileage one and it could last forever.

You may be able to run the codes off of the engine (you'd have to have a dealer look for the codes and what they mean in the parts books----even then it may be tough to pin down an exact model or year that it came out of ) to determine what you are looking for.

The bottom line is to get any attributes about the engine in writing. Make sure the yard notes which stock # it was removed from, what year, make and model it came from and the known mileage on the donor engine. This way, if down the road, there is a problem, you will have proof you were misrepresented.

Bear in mind that most yards give anything from a "taillight guarantee" on used engines (none) to 30 days against major knocks or internal problems.

Why is the engine being replaced?
 
  #5  
Old 02-13-03, 01:38 PM
peanut44
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Engine replacement

It is being replaced because my engine blew. It had high mileage on it. The replacement engine is at a place called Newman Auto Recyclers. The 1992 Dodge Shadow had been rolled and the body is no good. As far as I know the replacement engine is still in the car and has 94K on it I think.
 
  #6  
Old 02-13-03, 04:02 PM
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Do you have any idea which engine you're dealing with? My guess is it's a 2.2l.

If you're willing to take on an engine swap you can probably get any chrysler front wheel drive 2.2 to work. (Although with some modifications in some cases with fuel delivery or mounts)
 
  #7  
Old 02-13-03, 04:22 PM
Joe_F
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As mentioned, the best way is to make sure the engine being swapped in is compatible with your make and model.

Question the salvage yard. Ask them to show you the Hollander interchange manual that proves it will work. Inspect the engine yourself. Listen for knocks and make sure the engine works well before buying it. It should sounds smooth, not smoke or knock, nor should it miss. If the salvage yard goes "HUH???" when you ask them about the Hollander Interchange or says, "HUH??" when you ask to hear the donor engine run, you are buying the engine at the WRONG place.

Depending on what is actually wrong with your particular engine, it may be worth it to rebuild it or buy an off the shelf rebuild. A used engine is a rather large gamble.
 
  #8  
Old 02-13-03, 04:23 PM
peanut44
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Engine replacement

Yes it is a 2.2 L
 
  #9  
Old 02-13-03, 08:28 PM
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Great advise on the rebuild. Used motors are quite a gamble.

I called the junkyard to see if the 2.2 from an ‘87 charger would be compatible in an '87 Caravan. The guy said the computer system said they were not compatible.

What needed changed to make it compatible? I had to change the carb from a feedback to a non-feedback.

The fellow I talked to at the junkyard said the computer software isn't something to take at face value necessarily. He said if I can compare the engines and they look like they'll swap they probably will. The software will identify engines that will swap exactly (which is a plus). It will not give reasons for non-compatibility (at least not at my local junkyard).

This Caravan was a vehicle where probably was acceptable (which may or may not be so in your case). I did the swap and got 4500 miles out of it before the head gasket blew.

Now it's on the back burner 'til spring when I will not freeze my buttootie off.

So… as per usual…… Joe’s advice is the best course of action. Mine is the shadetree, cheapo, probably will work, other way to possibly get your car going.
 
  #10  
Old 02-13-03, 10:35 PM
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Jason---Emission controls are different for cars than trucks.

I am willing to bet that that caravan is classified as a truck, and therefore has less stringent emission and gas controls than the charger will. That is my best guess why the computer systems would be incompatible.
 
  #11  
Old 02-14-03, 03:38 AM
Joe_F
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Jeremy: Actually, the minivan is considered a CAR in the hierarchy/pecking order/parts layout/catalog system of Chrysler .

The emission controls vary because of a multitude of reasons (goes for anything):

1) Engine option.
2) Transmission
3) Optional equipment
4) Required regulation
5) Layout in that specific chassis
6) Payload

etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. That is why you should only go with what is directly compatible and nothing else .
 
  #12  
Old 02-14-03, 06:50 AM
peanut44
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Engine replacement...Rebuild???

Thanks alot for the advise guys.I think I'll pass on the used motor. I have one more question. If I have my motor rebuilt what price range would I be looking at? I have no idea and I don't want to be over charged.
 
  #13  
Old 02-14-03, 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by Joe_F
Jeremy: Actually, the minivan is considered a CAR in the hierarchy/pecking order/parts layout/catalog system of Chrysler .

The emission controls vary because of a multitude of reasons (goes for anything):

1) Engine option.
2) Transmission
3) Optional equipment
4) Required regulation
5) Layout in that specific chassis
6) Payload

etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. That is why you should only go with what is directly compatible and nothing else .
Everything I've read so far puts the minivan in the truck category. And yes, the pollution control rules were less stringent for trucks at that time. So the truck (Caravan) had no O2 sensor or feedback carb (or altitude compensator) in 1987.

When you go to Wal-Mart and use the little computer things that tell you the part number for parts like oil filters and wiper blades... you have to do go dodge trucks to find the listings for Caravans.

When you go to allpar and get a TSB reports, it says right at the top "Dodge trucks, Dodge Caravan 2.2l)

On the 2.2 it absolutely does not matter if it was attached to an automatic or manual tranny. The carb from the '84 Caravan that I now have on my '87 Caravan came off of a Caravan with a manual 5 speed. It still had all the necessary linkages to hook the automatic tranny to. You will have to change the flywheel to the flex plate for the auto... viola. Ready to rock.

Layout in the specific chassis? If it's FWD then it sits in there sideways. I was never advocating that he could cram a RWD 2.2 in there. (So don't go to any pickup trucks for your engine if you decide to do that.)

Payload? You mean there are different 2.2 configurations for different payloads? The engine I used in my big heavy Caravan came out of a puny little charger. They were the exact same engine except for the carbs (and exhaust manifold.. because the charger has an O2 sensor screwed in there... no biggie).

The engine does not know what it is supposed to be in. If everything is hooked up correctly, it will push any vehicle that is supposed to have a 2.2 FWD in it. It will bolt right in and everything will hook right up. Long gone are the days of specialized engines for specific models. A few small things here or there might need converting, but nothing catastrophic or that time consuming even.

Required regulation? You might have me there. I'm in a very lax state. BUT if you were going to have to do any converting of the 2.2 to get it to work in your vehicle, then convert it so it is like the original engine that was in there. Viola... now you have a 2.2 that runs and puts out emissions like the original engine that was in your car.

Like I said, the junkyard told me that my engines were not compatible... yet they absolutely are compatible.

As for a rebuild... I priced a block rebuild / head replacement at about $800 for parts (including pistons, connecting rods, and oil pump). I have no idea how much a mechanic is going to charge though. I’m sure it’d be cheaper than a new car.

Good luck.... With regular maintenance the 2.2 is a long lifer.
 
  #14  
Old 02-14-03, 07:58 AM
peanut44
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Thanks again!!!!!!! Peanut44
 
  #15  
Old 02-14-03, 10:23 AM
Joe_F
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Jason:

Go to any Chrysler dealer and ask where the parts for for a 1984 Caravan.

Hint: They are included with the regular passenger cars that year.

Newsflash: The Caravan is actually based on the K-car platform. Old Hal Sperlich (the brainstorm behind the minivan) had an engineering wonder by doing this.

So, yes, the vehicle is technically a car from the pecking order that Chrysler (the company that made it) dictates as such.

There are different categories of engines, and not all are the same. You got lucky in a lot of regards with your swap, and you also took the time to research it and go through it all. You also, as I recall had to cobble some things together and do some adjustments.

Can you use a 2.8 Camaro engine in a 2.8 Cavalier? No, won't work. Could you "make it fit"? Sure, but the 2.8 like the 2.2 is as common as dog poo and you could find a million donors that are a correct drop in. There are TONS of 2.2's in junkyards, so why not make it easy ?

Not faulting you in any way, but most shops wouldn't want to do that, nor would they guarantee anything if the customer were to supply an engine and insist it fits the vehicle .

Again, the reason why your swap worked IS because the 2.2 engine and platform in a Caravan IS based on a car...the K-car .

Chevy truck blocks differ. So do their emission controls. Fooling around with that can get you into trouble and for what "savings" you would attain, you could find a direct drop in for the same price. .

Another thing about using a compatible engine---you get spare things such as alternators, throttle bodies, oil pans, etc, which may come in handy to replace damaged originals. If you get something different to "Make it fit", you don't have that luxury .

Peanut: Go with a compatible engine for your vehicle as recommended by the yard's Hollander Interchange manual.
 
  #16  
Old 02-14-03, 12:13 PM
motyen69
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Peanut,I have bought several used engines and all have been reliable.If you know who has the engine and its still in the car,ask to hear it run.You can see if its a smoker and listen for any unusual sounds.Check the VIN number on the front left dash and look that particular vehicle up in a chilton.The VIN number will tell you what engine is in that vehicle.I'd be sure the engine's ignition system was capatable with your car.Good luck.
 
  #17  
Old 02-14-03, 12:52 PM
peanut44
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Motyen 69, Thank you for your response. I didn't know to check to see if the ignition system was compatible. I am planning on running a check on the vin number through car fax. Thanks again!
 
  #18  
Old 02-14-03, 03:52 PM
Joe_F
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I definitely agree that you should hear it run! Listen closely to it and make sure it's what you want before buying it, or else it will be a hassle for you later on. A shop will still charge you the labor if the motor turns out to be bad.

Get whatever warranty you are promised on the engine in writing. Most places will, as I said, give a 30 day guarantee against knocks and internal damage. A Carfax report will only show the donor car as totalled, and frankly with junkyard cars, the mileage is always suspect.

Again, the easiest way is for the yard to simply tell you from the Hollander Interchange manual which years, models and combinations work. Remember, if the shop has to swap things or play with the engine, you will be charged labor. You want the easiest drop in you can get---and I'm sure there are numerous ones for that car. Probably any 2.2 vin code D (8th digit of the vin code on the dash will be a D) will work, but again, check the listings in the interchange manual to be sure!!!!

If the yard doesn't have the Hollander system, or refuses to let you hear the engine or test what you are buying, do not buy from them. If the motor runs good, they should happily let you hear it run. Also, Hollander is far more accurate than the owner's head and "I know it will fit". Most better yards are computerized and can tell you in a few keystrokes if they have the needed engine. If not, they can call out on the Teletype machine and get it from another yard.

Check for smoking from the tailpipe, check engine lights illuminated, knocking, strange noises, engine missing and other things. Start it and stop it a few times, and have a helper look for puffing and soot in the tailpipe when you do.

I would stay away from an engine out of a rolled vehicle as it could have had very severe damage. Also, the vehicle may not run anymore due to it being squished and you won't be able to hear the engine, which is what you want.

Again, a used engine is a risky endeavor. It will probably run you about 300 to 400 bucks, depending on the yard and condition.
 
  #19  
Old 02-15-03, 05:09 AM
peanut44
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Joe, thank you very much for the advise!
 
  #20  
Old 02-15-03, 05:13 AM
motyen69
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Peanut, Joe's advice is as good as it gets.The yard should have the Hollander that tells you what vehicle engines will interchange without any modification.
 
  #21  
Old 02-15-03, 05:45 AM
peanut44
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The biggest thing with me is, I don't trust those places. I live on a small income, so I sure can't afford to get ripped off. I can't see a engine out of a rolled vehicle not having sever damage. I agree with Joe on that! I ran accross a 1993 Mazda 626 in the paper. Can you guys tell me if that car has a good reputation?
 
  #22  
Old 02-15-03, 07:45 AM
Joe_F
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It's an OK car. If you're going to go with something in the foreign range, you are better off with a Toyota product. Better screwed together, easier to fix and cheaper on parts in the long haul.
 
  #23  
Old 02-15-03, 08:39 AM
peanut44
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Thanks again Joe!
 
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