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No fuel pressure,'91Olds98, fans on...


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03-02-03, 10:13 AM   #1  
C210
No fuel pressure,'91Olds98, fans on...

Unrelated systems malfunctioning, low speed fans on with ignition in run position on cold starting, purging motor on at same time, intermittent transmission failing to shift accompanied by speedometer failure, and no fuel pressure. All relays test ok. Grounds and connectors are in place and tight. It appears that the fuel pump maybe one problem, but with the unrelated systems involved cofuses the issue. The car did set for about 3months but had fuel in the tank. Did replace ignition module recently. Car has been fine until now. They only common link I can think of is the ECM, or wiring harness. I appreciate your thoughts.

 
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03-02-03, 01:52 PM   #2  
Joe_F
See the posts and links below.

 
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03-03-03, 03:20 AM   #3  
Have you tried to pull the error codes off the computer? Connections at the PCM ok?

 
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03-05-03, 08:22 AM   #4  
C210
On the '91 olds I'm not getting any codes, in fact it doesn't even give me the diagnostic mode code of "12" When I tried to discover the problem Sunday I jiggled and tightened the connectors on the computer, and the car started and ran fine for about a five mile trip but after setting while in the store, 10 mins. it would start but had to put in low for the trans to take hold. Drove straight home ,5 miles, turned off, and then would not start.

Best Regards.

 
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03-05-03, 09:30 AM   #5  
Joe_F
you are close. You probably have a bad ground or wiring problem more so than anything else.

 
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03-05-03, 11:09 PM   #6  
Yuk!!!!!! Got to hate those electrical gremlins. My first thought is ECM and wiring harness. The bad news is unless you have access to a factory diagnostic computer you will not know what the problem is. The fact that you are not getting error codes suggests the computer is not even working good enough to give you codes. I think you would be time ahead if you just bite the bullet and take it to the olds place for an estimate and a diagnosis. It should cost you nothing for the estimate and diagnosis. If the dealer dose not allow you to watch the mechanic at work because of ďinsurance reasonsĒ find another dealer that will allow you to watch. If nothing else you will walk away know what the problem is if you want to fix it your self. But keep in mind the mechanic will make no money if he dose not do a job AND you just wasted 1-3hr of his time. Take if form some one who has been there he will greatly appreciate it if you let him change your fluids for his trouble.

 
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03-06-03, 01:47 AM   #7  
Do you get any kind of Service Engine Soon or a check engine light? If not, check the ECM fuse make sure it ok and not corroded(just a thought). Could water have leaked into the ECM? Still sounds like a bad ECM, wiring/ground, maybe a screwy connection with the prom inside the ECM?

 
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03-06-03, 03:39 AM   #8  
Joe_F
Weld:

No need to do that. The computer can be sent out through a parts store to their electronics supplier for testing to confirm if it is bad or not.

I suggest the original poster go this route at this point and go from there in checking the grounds and so forth.

 
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03-06-03, 12:04 PM   #9  
C210
91 Olds 98 unrelated failures

I would like to thank everyone for their help in this matter. I have taken the car to the dealer for a diagnostic write-up and should have something Friday. I will post the results so as you can see what came of it.
Again, Thank You All.
C210

 
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03-06-03, 01:12 PM   #10  
Yes you could send it off, but why not get instant resutls? Dose it cost you any thing to send it off? Cause 99% of factory shops will test if for free.

 
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03-07-03, 05:59 AM   #11  
Joe_F
Ummm, not many dealerships in my belief will do ANYTHING for free. The minute you drop off the keys and talk to the service writer, the clock ticks once you've given authorization .

 
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03-07-03, 05:34 PM   #12  
I can tell you I cant think of even one that works for free near Pittsburgh Pa.Something that always strikes me funny is why people think Auto Technicians should work for free?Please tell me other professions where this is expected.Or maybe Im missing the boat is there a place where auto techs get everything free?I believe you will find a bad ecm with the fans running this way if the a/c and defrosters are turned off.

 
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03-07-03, 11:50 PM   #13  
Speaking from my experience as a factory technician for GM, Ford, BMW, Land Rover, among others we gave free estimates all the time. All of our shops offered free estimates on vehicles that were out of warranty it was the service advisors job to convince them to get the repair. You were not responsible for any time the technician spent diagnosing the problem. And the service advisors were encouraged to sell services. But, it might be different there. But here people expect and get a free estimate. The only time I have seen money charged for services of diagnosing or estimating was in larger trucks. When I worked in large truck and heavy equipment repair and service you were charged on an hourly rate regardless of what the technician was doing. But that is a totally different market. In most light duty vehicle dealerships, you get paid a flag rate per job. My advice about seeing a technician for the consumer is simple.

1. All ways ask for an estimate first and tell them not to do any repair until you ok it.

2. Ask to watch him work. They might tell you that insurance will not let you in the shop area. If they will not let you work go some place else!!!! You might have to put on eye protection and stay away from the lift, but you should still be allowed to watch.

3. Ask to see the old part. After the repair is completed. I have seen some technicians not change the part they said was defective. But if you followed rule #2 this would not be a problem.

4. When in doubt ask for a second opinion, if he is honest he should not have problem letting you get another opinion. And ask to talk to the technician not the service advisor, it always better to skip the person whoís main job is to sell you a job.

The other side of that is if you do live some place like here that gives free estimates think about the technician. If you go there to get you car or truck diagnosed so you can fix it your self at least let him change your fluids so he get paid for some job.

 
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03-08-03, 06:12 AM   #14  
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An estimate is one thing. Checking it out for free is another .

I cannot see a dealer offering what might be wrong with this poster's car free of charge. It could be a multitude of things. A good technician will probably recheck all the basic items even if the owner has checked them him/herself. This is because they cannot assume the owner has the tools, service literature and know-how to spot the basics. It also would mean they could waste their time and then have to convince the customer of the problem, causing an argument.

A service advisor is a salesman with a pen and a work order in many, if not all cases. Sure, some were former technicians, but the repair work is up to the technician or lead service guy, not the advisor. The advisor is the interface with the customer. In theory, he/she should put the problem in the customer's language so that it is understood by the customer.

1) I agree about asking for the old part and even asking the technician to explain why it is bad afterward so the customer can see what's going on.

2) If a customer is going to stand over you to watch and question things, you might as well hand him the tools, charge him for rental of the bay and go get a cup of coffee---it's cheaper that way. You don't go to your doctor and say to him, "Hey doc, let me grab that tongue depressor and I'll do it myself. You run along now". Watch from afar in a safe distance? Sure. Be in the shop area? No way.

3) An appliance technician coming to your house will charge you a service fee to tell you what is wrong with the appliance. If you have the repair done, they will waive the fee. However, if you say, "I'm going to think about it", in most cases, they will charge you. Why? The techs time, fuel, and expertise in nailing down the problem. Someone has to pay for all that .

4) An estimate is usually an estimate of the repair cost and an estimate of the problem. As you know, when you get into something, you inevitably find more than you thought. Many a time we had to call a customer and explain that trouble was found inside. They were always given the option to come down so that it could be explained to them what was going on.

 
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03-09-03, 11:36 PM   #15  
All of the dealerships I have worked at the customer got a work order that identities the suspected components there cost, and labor costs. At that point you could tell them to put it back to gather and you wanted another opinion. But you still get to keep the work order with the diagnosis, even if you the Dx has to be adjusted it give you some place to start. I canít believe they donít give free estimates and diagnosis everywhere. All of the places I have worked have done it pretty much the same way. I have been a shop director for a lot of different automakers, and in this environment everyone from me to the service advisors and technicians were expected to sell services. The operation of a dealerships service department is judged on dollars per bay. So are you saying they charge for an estimate? I guess I just have worked at a lot of really nice shops. In fact myself as well as other technicians have worked for free for people that we thought really needed it. I really hate to hear that sprit is dying. I am glad around here it is still alive and well. Most of the service advisors at the places I worked were never technicians. But I disagree that you should not watch the technician work, we use to have all sorts of people in the shop area. This is more common in the higher end car markets where they want to make you think you are buying in to a family with the car or truck. I should clarify what I mean by watching. Talk to the technician when you bring your car in or when you get your estimate. If it sounds reasonable go get a cup of coffee and come back in 30min while he is working and ask him if anything new has come up, stand and watch him for a few minutes then go sit and watch some TV, repeat this every little while until the car is done. There is a big difference between watching him and bugging him.

 
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03-10-03, 03:21 AM   #16  
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If someone came over to me and watched and asked every five minutes if something new came up, you'd want to throw him/her out.

The proof is in the old parts, which you should gladly show the customer. After the repairs are done, then you can explain what the problem is. Or, when needed, you can call the customer over and show him/her what's going on and why you are doing what you are doing. Or they can watch from where the car can be seen as well.

An "estimate" may be a test drive with the customer, or a quick analysis without breaking out any tools. Once the customer is advised of what the problem might be, then if and when they authorize the repairs, the charges start.

 
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03-10-03, 03:55 AM   #17  
Most technicians donít get upset when you ask them questions. The only ones you got mad at where know it all types. Those that thought they knew everything. Yes you did want to kick those people out but for the most part people were not annoying at all. And you had to remember that even know it alls we the customer, and if given good service would return. Some would even ask for a technician by name, even if it meant they would have to weight longer. I am sure all shops are do not think like this, that is why I think it is important to stick with ASE certified technicians with factory training A professional technician with proper tanning will not be offend by questions and even if he is, he still knows its his job to answer them. After a few years in the bays working, its nice for the occasional customer to take interest in what you are doing. We were all ways trained to keep in mind that there car was a large investment and itís only natural to be concerned about a large investment. I no longer work for a dealership, I now work in the private sector, but when I take my wifeís BMW in for warranty work I always check in on the technician at work and ask him a question or two, I donít stand over him, but I do observe him. I donít even tell him I am BMW factory trained, I want to see how he treats the average person and if he lies or makes stuff up. If he tell me the truth and dose not try to sell me jobs I donít need I remember his name, so if my wife ever has go in alone she can ask for one of the techs I trust. Alot get pissed at us and think we are trying to rip them off or donít understand that it takes time to do this stuff. Most of our estimates included a drive, a hook up to the computer, and maybe a trip to the internet to investigate the problem. Some times parts had to be removed to get a proper estimate. But we never spent much time on taking things off until we had to go ahead for the repairs. But even with out picking up tools a good technician can pretty much narrow it down. As far as I am concerned the drive and computer diagnostics are worth there weight in gold for the average consumer. It narrows it down quite a bit. And lets face it most people come in to have the work done not just get a diagnosis, so it goes along way in generating good will. The reason most dealerships in this area do it like this is because you will get a lot of return customers. I hope people are getting something out of our discussion Joe.

 
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