no brakes-hard pedal

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  #1  
Old 05-18-03, 08:30 PM
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Unhappy no brakes-hard pedal

I have 1990 Merc Cougar LS with ABS. About 1 week ago yellow ABS +red brake lights came on and soon my brake pedal became hard and I had almost no control over the car.From then on brake pedal would lock up after some driving and then relese itself when car wasn't running. My ABS and regular brakes linked together and if something goes wrong with ABS I don't have any brakes.I tried to bleed -no difference . Also I've noticed brake fluid overflowing the tanc.On the brake fluid cap Isee yellowish film-it wasn't there month ago(I had to replace gasket,old one was dried out and I noticed leak thru the cap). What's wrong with my brakes? Please help! What I should look into and how to fix it? Update:today no brakes whatsoever from moment I started car
 
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  #2  
Old 05-19-03, 04:09 AM
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Stop driving it and let the dealer look at it ABS is a DIY'r no no.

Let them diagnose and go from there.
 
  #3  
Old 05-19-03, 09:15 AM
Joe_F
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I agree. Professional service is required at once. Do not gamble with brakes.
 
  #4  
Old 05-19-03, 07:21 PM
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I've been to the dealer and three other shops as well .The shops told me that my ABS master cylynder is bad and needs to be replased .Dealer said ABS pomp only is bad-the downside:that pomp will cost me almost $1500.00 plus labor.I have 140000 miles on my Cougar. At 112000 miles I had my transmission rebild at a very good place(paid them big bucks),at ninetysomething thousand miles Ihad engine heads reserfased and head gaskets replased,last summer-fall(about 125000 mi) took care of AC-I live in florida-had it compleatly redone and converted .Now comes the QS:do I go all the way and change the entire ABS unit ?(I've found someone thru frends willing to put brand new unit for under $1800) .Or should Isave and get one from junk yard(I've called around , they 're available for $200-$450). The saving of $1300-$1500 is very tempting,depends on who I'll use to put it in.Even if I'll have no luck first time and will have to pay again to reinstall it's still alot cheaper .My only concern-safety(and a big one too).I drive about 90 mi a day-hway and streets,+ carpooling kids.Got any advice? P.S. I like my car and plan to keep it some more.So do I take a chance with a cheap staf or put a new part in (with a better warranty of corse)?? How good are my chances with junk yard part?I'll appreciate any and all of your help! Looks like my time is running out on me-my brake pedal is locked all the time,doesn't get released anymore.Thank you and I apologise for a long note.
 
  #5  
Old 05-19-03, 08:45 PM
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I don't know... around $400 is a big gamble for used parts too. Would they be guaranteed?

If the car is in good shape, and you want to keep it for a while I'd consider the new unit.

You have spent enough on it so far to keep it going for a while, providing the rest of the car (besides the engine/tranny) is in good shape.

Now you better spend to keep it stopping as well.

Man that's steep! But worth the peace of mind.

Sounds like the most expensive things have gone on it..... it's all cheaper from here. lol
 
  #6  
Old 05-19-03, 10:06 PM
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Original poster:

You should be able to get a rebuilt unit through an auto parts store at a much cheaper price. A-1 Cardone is the company that comes to mind that does reman ABS items like this.

These cars are wicked heaps and very poor quality. Nice looking vehicle, but the love affair ends there......my sister had one, I didn't shed a single tear the day she pitched it. It was a poor quality car.

Do not gamble with used brake parts. It is not worth the safety issues. Buy rebuilt or new.
 
  #7  
Old 05-20-03, 01:17 AM
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All ABS systems are required to be redundant. And donít forget you have an emergency break. Your car has a hydro boost setup. I think hydraulic pump is what he is talking about. I would try to buy a reman unit if possible. But if you can find one or it is to expensive I would not worry about having a used one put in. Just make sure it comes with some kind of grantee most will give you 30 days. But new would be a better option, on the other hand I realize that money will not always allow that. Do not fool around with it yourself, your system has a high side pressure of around 2000psi, hydraulic fluid can cut a finger off.
 
  #8  
Old 05-20-03, 03:20 AM
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Thank you all so much!I've been looking into finding a rebild part with no luck.Do you have any more suggestions on rebilds? On the oter hand many shops said that they will not put any thing that is not new.I know they make profit on parts too,looks like they're trying to rip me off.I have someone who want to do it privetly at his house(QS:is it even possible giving that it 's high pressure sistem?)and someone in the little shop (who 'll charge me more ).Guy who gives me good price on a newsistem(he said it'll be Ford wich worth alone about $2300) is on vacation,so I've got until monday LOL.Men,I'm telling you it 's very stressful to drive this thng now.But Ihave no choice.Got to go. Thank you all.
 
  #9  
Old 05-20-03, 03:27 AM
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DO NOT drive it as you could possibly lose the brakes and cause an accident. It's a risk to you and others around you!

You already mentioned that the brakes were gone by editing your first post...that is a warning sign of problems!

Again, call up your local parts stores and ask if A-1 Cardone (that's a brand) makes the part you need for your car. Ask for the price. Get the part #. You can go to www.rockauto.com to check out the prices and such. It probably has to be ordered as it is a rebuilt item. In rare cases, yours has to be sent out to be rebuilt as no cores (rebuildable units) exist. Probably not the case here.

No, I wouldn't trust the backyard guy with your life. Saving a few bucks is not worth the chance of losing your brakes if he/she doesn't have the proper know-how of the system. Get it fixed by someone competent so you have recourse if there is a problem.
 
  #10  
Old 05-20-03, 04:30 PM
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In one shop they offered to convert my brake sistem to a regular(get rid of ABS for good).Will charge about $800.Any sudgestions on that one?My 'backyard' guy is from big shop,and the shop wouln't deal with junkyard part-for a reason definetely .So Iasked if he would do it privetly.
 
  #11  
Old 05-21-03, 12:51 AM
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If he is a professional technician I would not worry about having him do it at his house. At the dealerships I have worked at you could use your bay for anything you wish after hours. 2000 psi would not be a problem to any one familiar with how to take the load of the system. In fact most technicians could do it with a very small set of tools. I have no idea where to find a re-man unit for it, but I would try what Joe suggested. I tried Autozone and Advance Auto for you with no luck.
 
  #12  
Old 05-21-03, 03:19 AM
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Thank you,WELDGOD .What 's your take on brake convertion?Anyone seen it done or knows about it?Stil trying to decide beetween all new unit with ABS or maybe convert?When I'd converted my AC it changed alot:used to blow freezing cold air,now one can never get cold when sun is out,LOL .Then they told me that temp is good(for air that's coming out) but new sistem will never work as good with different tipe of freon. Thats why I wonna know before Ido the brakes.Another thing:when the unit sits on junk yard it's probably gets rusty inside?I've heard if brake isn't functioning it's no good ,corrosion from brake fluid eats it up .Thank You,all.
 
  #13  
Old 05-21-03, 03:49 AM
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Do not purchase used brake parts and do not deviate from the factory brake set up. You're stuck with what you have here and it must be repaired properly.

Again, contact A-1 Cardone (look them up on Google.com) and explain your situation. See if they will reman your unit if they do not offer it in their line.

Also make sure the person working on it is competent and you trust him. Only you can make that determination .
 
  #14  
Old 05-21-03, 03:44 PM
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Joe F,I appreciate your advice,thanks! .I contacted A-1 cardone last night,but they didn't ansvered me yet.I'll try again tonight
 
  #15  
Old 05-22-03, 09:18 AM
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Just a few thoughts, and questions;

1. Were the abs brakes bleed properly?
2. When you first had a problem was the brake fluid level low??
3. How are the brakes themself, need replacing or set up etc.?
4. Have you thought about a bad wheel brake sensor being faulty?
5. Was the battery diconnected during bleeding or to reset the pcm?


If the brakes are in good condition and the system was bleed properly with no air left in the system. And the fluid level is correct. To narrow down the possibility of a bad wheel sensor I would disconnect them. While applying the brakes they will be a little sluggish but you should still have brakes. If you have brakes that would say the rest of the system is working fine and the problem lies with a faulty sensor/s.


-----------------
 
  #16  
Old 05-22-03, 06:13 PM
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O'k,here goes.First problem I'd in august of last year-when I took car to change pads.They told me my rear caliper is locked and needs replasment.After job was done red brake light started to come on and off randomly(sort of-after I've pressed brake-but not every time,stay on a couple of minutes and go off).Fluid level was o.k. so I went back.He took car for a test drive to see the light coming on,been gone for an hour,came back said he never seen light on and wouldn't teel me if he did anything to fix it,but I didn't see brake light coming on when Iwas driving for next maybe 5 month.I think he added brake fluid,weird tho that he denied that .So in 5 month brake light came back,fluid seemed o.k,but he added some,light went off,then in march I first saw the ABS light alone w/red br. light ,again without any cheking he added some fluid.I've spotted that I'm loosing it from where hose that goes out of fluid tank connected to the unit.So it's possible that there is some air in the sistem,but air will give me spongy pedal,I've got the opposite.I'm not sure if bleeding was proper for ABS-how it's should be done?Brakes in a good shape.Two days ago lost alternator and replased battery,so comptr had a chance to reset ,nothing changed maybe only pedal gets locked and sometimes releised again but it started same way .When it first happened fluid went allway up to the cap,when brakes work fluid comes down to where it should be,when gets locked goes back up to the top
 
  #17  
Old 05-23-03, 08:20 AM
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I really suggest that you get this car to someone competent who will go through it soup to nuts for you. Gambling like you have with brakes can cost you your life in an accident. This is not the way to go.

With an ABS system, both the ABS side and the hydraulic (regular brakes) must be in good working order, or one can counteract the other. If there are fluid leaking issues such as bad hoses, leaky calipers and the like, they must be corrected. If you have to add brake fluid to the master cylinder, bottom line is you have a leak and it must be corrected.

While in turn it will cost more, the dealer is the way to go. In this respect, if there is a problem, you will have recourse. If not, choose a good shop that's ASE Certified (www.asecert.org to find one) and has no complaints with the Better Business Bureau.

Again, do not gamble with brakes.
 
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Old 05-23-03, 09:03 AM
87QuestTSI
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Originally posted by Irina
In one shop they offered to convert my brake sistem to a regular(get rid of ABS for good).Will charge about $800.Any sudgestions on that one?My 'backyard' guy is from big shop,and the shop wouln't deal with junkyard part-for a reason definetely .So Iasked if he would do it privetly.
On many cars, you can just ditch the ABS components and still have a safe-braking vehicle. I would suggest that you go that route unless you want your Ford ABS parts to keep breaking. I know quite a few Conquest and Starion owners remove the ABS parts on their high HP cars to save weight and a headache with old breaking parts.
 
  #19  
Old 05-23-03, 10:25 PM
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Yes, you can ditch ABS but I would not. You really donít notice it until you need it then you are real glad you have it. Did you fill your brake fluid? If you added to much you will get lock up. You need to have it ĺ full.
 
  #20  
Old 05-24-03, 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by Irina
I've been to the dealer and three other shops as well .The shops told me that my ABS master cylynder is bad and needs to be replased .Dealer said ABS pomp only is bad-the downside:that pomp will cost me almost $1500.00 plus labor.I have 140000 miles on my Cougar. At 112000 miles I had my
Ask the dealer if he pulled the codes out of the ABS. If he did,
ask him what codes were found. And how he came to the
conclusion the pump was bad. The fact that the amber ABS light is still lit indicates there's still a condition that is unfixed and codes are being stored. Also, is the pedal hard at the top of it's travel or on the floor, with the engine on or off? The working
pressure of 2600 lbs on that ABS system can be released simply
by shutting off the car and pumping the brakes approximately 25
times. The system is relatively safe after that. Also check that all
the fuses in the car are good. One more thing, on the mid-ninties
GM's, there are codes set and the ABS light comes on when
certain brake light bulbs fail (third brake light), so make sure ALL
the brake lights on the car work too.

Christopher

Edit:
The more I look into this the wierder it gets on it's face value. She's complaining that the brake pedal is hard and the car isn't
stopping. In 99% of the cases, assuming the hydraulic system
is sealed, a hard(firm) pedal anytime would be a good thing. The ABS pump is moot. It should only operate when the system
needs the pressure to cycle the brakes during a stop requiring
the ABS system activate. All other times, the normal vacuum
booster and master cylinder are sufficient to stop the car. If the
system wasn't sealed, then the pedal would be hard only after
going to the floor. Lack of an ABS pump shouldn't make the car
unsafe to drive. I'm beginning to wonder if the proportioning
valve on the car isn't rotted closed?
 

Last edited by ChristopherT; 05-24-03 at 09:06 AM.
  #21  
Old 05-24-03, 08:57 AM
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Dealer didn't want to explain wich codes came out and how they figured out the pump.He said that his tech is qualified to make that call ,What a waist of time and money!How can I make them give me full report?Iwasn't present at the dealer's inspection,but other shops no better-no one even looked at brakes or even took the weels off the car!!! MY brake pedal gets hard at the bottom and gradually gets hard to the top.To start the car I 've got to hit brake pedal (some sort of safety future),so with motor off pedal was hard and when you turn the key it 'll go to the bottom.Now it's both ways-if it locked-its hard sometimes from moment one and on,sometimes it works at first but eventually gets harder and locks
 
  #22  
Old 05-24-03, 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by Irina
Dealer didn't want to explain wich codes came out and how they figured out the pump.He said that his tech is qualified to make that call
Find another dealer! Any Ford, Lincoln, Mercury dealer would
be equipped to diagnose the problem and fix the car. If that's
too much, then any Midas, or Mieneke shop should be able
to do the work too. The important thing to find out is what
the problem really is.

Christopher
 
  #23  
Old 05-24-03, 09:59 AM
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Depends on what you asked the dealer to do for you, but I agree.

If you said, "Give me a quick test drive and tell me what's wrong", you didn't ask for much.

If you said, "Look at it, diagnose it and inform me what is wrong and what is required to fix it", then you deserve an answer.

You might call the dealer back, speak to the dealer manager (not the service manager) and demand an explanation. It's like going to the doctor and he says "Take this", but doesn't tell you why or answer your questions.

Never be afraid to ask. If you paid the dealer by credit card, call your card company and dispute the charges, and explain it in detail.
 
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Old 05-24-03, 09:59 AM
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Bottom line. Gonna cost you bucks. The more mechanics you have fool with it, the more it is gonna cost you. I never liked working on anything 3 or 4 other guys has messed with because perhaps more harm was done than good. Never saw a dealer who didnt give you a sheet on labor and parts and what was done to justify the amount paid. Brakes are not to trial and error with. If you are going to keep the car, then take it to a dealer, drop it off and say call me when it is ready. New veh's are more complicated than they were 50 years ago. Also costlier. To buy and repair. Shops will probably average 70 bucks an hour. This is to help pay for all the computerized equip they must have.
dont hassle them in any way or for that matter question them or their ability. They have the service manuals. Be prepared for a good shocker money wise. With them, you do, as joe sez, have a recourse. Some shade tree's will attemt to repair, take your money and when it is still not right, they shake their heads, BUT they dont refund any dough, and you may end up R.I.P. Dont jerk around with used parts, the 1500.00 fee is probably as close to what it is going to cost you than anything else. In this particular situation, probably more.
 
  #25  
Old 05-24-03, 11:11 AM
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Joe,when I took it to dealer,I told them what the problem was and I asked them to computer diagnose it.When he was ready,he said ABS pomp is bad,told me price on part and labor,plus some other things Ihave to take care of(bushings,rod etc.) which Iknew about.I didn't even got it printed!He gave it to me handwritten after I asked 3 times! It's a Mercury Dealer,shame on them.Idon't think I wanna go back to fix car at that place.To go another dealer it's gonna cost me again.Is autozone can crack the codes?So far nobody really worked on this and nothing much is done exept some bleeding.
 
  #26  
Old 05-24-03, 05:01 PM
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Ok, so the dealer did what you asked them to do, but didn't give you a printout. As Darrell says, it's rare that they would do that. Most dealers have computerized systems and can print a job ticket showing what the tech found.

Other than giving you a printout of what is needed and and estimate to fix it, the dealer owes you nothing. They did what you asked of them----"tell me what's wrong with it". The fact that it's expensive and you don't like the price is another thing.

As I said, these cars are flat out junk. ABS brakes take skill to work on, as Darrell, myself and others have stated. You wouldn't trust your life to a quack, so don't trust your transportation to anyone who isn't competent. Same idea here.

Bringing it from shop to shop to price "shop" nets you zero. Most shops get their parts from the same types of sources, so you won't save much here. The parts ARE expensive as this is a very early ABS system.

What you can do is to do a little homework on the parts and such based on someone's competent diagnosis. If a new pump is 500 bucks, and you're getting quoted 1500, ask why. However, if the part is 500 and you're being quoted 600, chances are it's a legit markup.

If you cannot do the work yourself, the best thing to do is to be an informed consumer. Ask the technician what went wrong, can he/she show you, and ask if the parts are OEM Ford or aftermarket and what warranty they will provide. Be smart by asking, but don't be a pest. Shops that believe you are meddling will call you up saying that they'd rather not work on your car.

Even if Autozone can read the ABS codes, it won't net you much. Like Darrell stated, hopping around from shop to shop is going to cost you---that money can be put torward fixing it.

My vote is get the vehicle fixed and a) run it into the ground, b) drive it a while, c) don't fix it and pitch it and get something better, banking the money you'll spend in this winner to something else.

Ask friends, neighbors, and such about good shops in your area. As mentioned, check with another Ford dealer (doesn't have to be a Mercury dealer) and tell them what the story is. But the price of the parts won't likely change there.

What did A-1 Cardone tell you? Try calling them if no e-mail reply.
 
  #27  
Old 05-24-03, 06:18 PM
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Joe,pomp from Ford runs $1478!And the all unit is discontinued at Ford!they told me tho it was about $2300. Cardone said that they need my part to try reman. and chance that they'll be able to is 80%.They need two weeks This car is my only transportation,so I'll stick with one of local shops.I've found one who gives me same price like dealer but will replace all unit not only pomp .Sounds good but still wandering if it something simplier that gives me such problem.What alerts me is the tendency to point at most expensive part without thorouth inspection.By the way with the shop I'll get warranty for 12 month/12000 mi,wich is the best available from what I can see
 
  #28  
Old 05-25-03, 09:39 AM
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Doubt it. Chances are the pump is the problem. As I said, this is an early system and it's riddled with problems and very expensive to fix.

You're into this winner for a lot of dough already (based on previous repairs), so bailing out now will really soak you. Get this fixed, drive it for a year or so, and pitch this money pit, as they are really costly when they get old.

Again, getting it to someone who will give it a thorough check is what it's all about here. Chances are they will have to order the part and it will be costly too. They may have to send yours out for rebuilding to the likes of Cardone or another remanufacturer.

Let's see what the shop's diagnosis reveals. Again, shopping on price is a sure fire way to get ripped off and left with a broken car again! You need competence here, and it DOES come at a price. Those that can fix these things charge accordingly due to the labor and knowledge involved to do so.
 
  #29  
Old 05-25-03, 07:22 PM
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One thing to understand here. Most ABS parts you are going to get from a dealership are going to be reman from the get go. OE's dont generally stock NEW ABS units, and especially for something this old.
If the aftermarket suppliers do not or can not get it, then the independent shops are going to have to get it from the dealer as well. They are most likely going to mark it up more than the dealer can sell it to you directly, because they generally only get 20% off of list anyway.

NEVER EVER USE JUNKYARD BRAKE PARTS!!!!!

The working pressure on ABS units can be as high as 3900psi and can KILL someone who doesnt know what they are doing. Do not trust just anyone to do this type of repair. THIS IS NOT A BACKYARD REPAIR!!!!

The best suggestion is for you to suck it up and take it to a different FORD dealer and have it repaired. Tell them what you were told at the other dealer. They are still going to charge you for diagnosis, but that is SOP, and you will get that anywhere you go.

Good Luck
Billy
 
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Old 05-25-03, 10:21 PM
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-complaining that the brake pedal is hard and the car isn't
stopping. In 99% of the cases, assuming the hydraulic system
is sealed, a hard(firm) pedal anytime would be a good thing. The ABS pump is moot. It should only operate when the system
needs the pressure to cycle the brakes during a stop requiring
the ABS system activate. All other times, the normal vacuum
booster and master cylinder are sufficient to stop the car. If the
system wasn't sealed, then the pedal would be hard only after
going to the floor. Lack of an ABS pump shouldn't make the car
unsafe to drive. I'm beginning to wonder if the proportioning
valve on the car isn't rotted closed?


When I've said hard I meant HAARD,it's faaar from firm.It starts from nice soft working pedal and progresses to pedal that would't go to the floor no matter what strenth one 'll use. So it's like having some sort of manual brake.To give you an idea- I have to switch to neutral gear every time I'm waiting for traffic light bc its really tough to hold it still even when I'm holding pedal w/both feet. As I understand for a couple of years FORD made hudraulic brakes that would stop functioning once something is wrong with ABS.That's what I'm dealing here with.So there not much left to stop the car with.
The only problem I have with dealer is that if I'll let them fix the pomp that is THE ONLY part they'll garantee.Maybe once they got the car taken apart they'll come up with another component that needs to be replaced(something more than just lines+hoses ).Or it'll naturally will die a week/month later.That's why I'm trying to find someone less of a rip off than a dealer .There gotta be other qualified techs outthere.By the way I've cheked out the ASE shops-there is only two about 30and35 miles away.Does it sounds like a right info?Does the shop needs special license/equipment/something special to do a good job on ABS I should look for?
Thank you, ALL and have a nice Memorial Day!
 
  #31  
Old 05-26-03, 05:17 AM
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Irina,

I have been a mechanic for over 20 years and at one time I thought ASE certification was a big deal. Now that I have worked for dealerships and independents with ASE techs. I have changed my mind for sure. I am not about to start bashing them here, but let me tell you this, ANYONE CAN READ A BOOK AND TAKE A TEST! If the dealer says that the pump is bad then that what the code is telling them. Any time you are working on systems such as brakes, you have got to fix the obvious first. There very well may be other underlying problems, but more likely than not, the tech is going to find it once he replaces the pump. I have seen that too many times myself. It would be in your best interest to use the dealer or at the very least a reputable indepentent with vast experience in ABS brakes. NOT necessarily an ASE shop. There are many Ford exclusive shops around, although maybe not in your area, since we have no idea where you are located. Try the phone book first, Yellow Pages work wonders.
Good Luck,
Billy

P.S. And by all means STOP driving with these conditions. You are putting yourself as well and any passengers and other motorists at very high risk. BE SAFE, NOT SORRY!
 
  #32  
Old 05-26-03, 06:35 AM
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Thank you,Billy What's the sure way to find out about shop's expirience especially with ABS and reputation(besides asking at that very shop)? I live in Florida.Is there any site Ican checkout on that?
 
  #33  
Old 05-26-03, 06:40 AM
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The best thing for you to do is stick with the dealership, but there is definately no harm in asking an independent shop. You can judge there experience by there response. If they hesitate then I would definately move on. What part of Florida?
Billy
 
  #34  
Old 05-26-03, 07:08 AM
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Down here in Florida dealerships is for moneybags only
 
  #35  
Old 05-26-03, 07:13 AM
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Thats a good thing.... FOR ME!!!!! Cause in about 5 years thats where im gonna be......LOL
 
  #36  
Old 05-26-03, 07:37 AM
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Billy,tried to PM-ing you,I think something isn't working right Why wait 5 years?It's nice here!
 
  #37  
Old 05-26-03, 08:52 AM
Joe_F
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Too hot, humid, buggy, and cars fade and rot there. LOL

Original poster:

If a shop is ASE certified, they are less of a chance of ripping you off because:

1) You can contact the ASE and complain to them;
2) It's embarrassing to them if they do not comply and fix the car correctly because they DO care about getting a bad rap;
3) Chances are shops that are ASE certified go for more continuous training and have more resources at their disposal than those that do not.

As I mentioned, the dealer is your best bet. Because, if they do not fix the car right, you can complain to Ford Motor Company, as they are the ones that franchise the dealerships. If you go to "Joe's Auto" around the corner, chances are if there is a problem, your recourse is less.

This is because: a) Joe's may pack it up and move to Hawaii and leave you high and dry, b)Joe's may never have worked on an ABS system like yours. Again, you wouldn't go to a dentist for a gall bladder problem, so why go to a non-specialist for your ABS problem???, and c) chances are Joe's may not have the literature, tools and procedures to fix your car correctly, which may cost you more money in the long run if they have to guess.

Yes the dealer will cost you. So will independent shops. The parts are expensive. In all honesty, the car is only worth these repairs because you have sunk too much into it in the past .

You may be able to go to Motorcraft's website (www.motorcraft.com) and see if they have authorized Ford/Motorcraft shops that specialize in work on Ford vehicles like yours. Again, ANY competent (that's the key word) shop can handle this repair.

Ask whoever you bring it to if they have the proper tools, literature (including maybe the factory Ford manual), and procedures at hand to fix the problem. Also, tell them that you want them to diagnose the problem, and give you a written account of what is wrong and what is needed to restore the car to 100% braking performance. In this light, ask the technician to explain what is wrong to you. If lines are leaking, let him/her show you and explain what's happening. Ask questions. You would of your doctor.

Think of the technician as a doctor for your car, because essentially he/she is.

Billy: It is not clear what our poster was told because as she stated, nothing was given in writing from the dealer in a formal fashion. If the first dealer didn't give me a computer printout of what was wrong and explain it to my satisfaction, I'd feel ripped off.

However, if the first dealer prints out a written account of what is wrong with the car, they are off the hook. She merely brought it there asking what is wrong.

My .02: Spend the rest of today locating competent shops and Ford dealers that you think can handle the problem. Tomorrow, call them up and ask some questions and see what they tell you. Ask if they will give a free estimate as to the problem and if they have experience working on ABS systems.

Then, today, I would log onto your local Better Business Bureau and look up how many complaints each shop has which you are considering. Those with many complaints or outstanding problems are likely warning signs of trouble to come.
 
  #38  
Old 05-26-03, 10:45 AM
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Something else is going on here! it takes alot longer for engine to reach norm.temp,when it does,it stais in normal range,but lower than middle point where it used to be before.I've recently changed alternator.Should I be alarmed? Oil is fresh+ full.Failing termostat ? Or engine problem?
 
  #39  
Old 05-26-03, 11:34 AM
Joe_F
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Shouldn't be a cause for concern.
 
  #40  
Old 05-26-03, 12:01 PM
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Thanks,Joe,takes a load of my sholders,but it's sooo hot outthere,why temp is lower than usual?
 
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