R12 to R134 conversion

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  #1  
Old 06-17-03, 08:14 PM
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R12 to R134 conversion

I have an 88 Accord LX. I got a rock through the condensor last night and I have a question about switching over to R134. I know the dryer needs to be changed and the compressor needs to be cleaned out along with all the lines. Do I also need to change the expansion valve/orifice tube when going to R134?
 
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  #2  
Old 06-17-03, 09:01 PM
Joe_F
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I'd suggest you change it, yes. However, AC repair is not DIY work unless you have all the tools, knowledge and service know-how at hand.
 
  #3  
Old 06-17-03, 10:48 PM
knuckles
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Your car is a poor candidate for a R-134a retrofit. You'll be money ahead if you simply replace the condensor & drier & recharge with R-12.
 
  #4  
Old 06-17-03, 11:35 PM
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Why should I stay with R12? The cost to get the R12 recharged is going to be in the $300-400 range after i replace the parts. Or I can switch to R134 for the same price and then I will be on the inexpensive side of repairs if and when something else goes wrong.
 
  #5  
Old 06-18-03, 03:19 AM
maadi_griffin
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call or email these people...they are very helpful.

www.autorefrigerants.com
 
  #6  
Old 06-18-03, 03:54 AM
Joe_F
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"Nothing" should go wrong because on an old heap like this, you're going to have to replace everything anyhow, it's probably all shot .

Certain vehicles don't bode well with conversions and you'll be that much poorer in a sweatbox! That is Knuckles' point.
 
  #7  
Old 06-18-03, 10:47 AM
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"OLD HEAP", do you know all the work my grandmother, while she was alive, hada done to this car? Do you know the condition of this 74,000 mile car in perfect condition? Did you know the entire A/C system was new 6 years ago because of a crappy mechanic, who was out to make a buck?

Please watch your mouth.
 
  #8  
Old 06-18-03, 11:15 AM
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Thankyou to Maadi_griffin, the people at the site you suggested were VERY helpful.
 
  #9  
Old 06-18-03, 01:03 PM
Joe_F
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Lol. Any 1988 Honda is a heap in my book, even more so with broken A/C .

You just happen to have a better version of it that still runs in one piece .

My 1989 Cavalier was my grandmother's too---far from a stellar car and it's MINT for a Cavalier . LOL.
 
  #10  
Old 06-18-03, 04:10 PM
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So you are telling us a place is charging 200-266 dollars for a pound of r-12, you car only holds 1.5 lbs.I'm sorry I don't believe that,even with labor.Good luck with your drop in refrigerant.
 
  #11  
Old 06-18-03, 05:56 PM
Lanny
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Make the conversion

Just had an engine replacement on a 1985 GMC Safari and had the AC converted to R134 in the switch cost 150.00 and working great
 
  #12  
Old 06-18-03, 06:54 PM
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This is what I got as a quote to get R134 put in.

Labor $150
Dryer $74
Orifice $85
Conversoin kit $95
Freon $30
Oil $15
Cleaning solution $25
I tried 3 places and all gave the same price.

Replacing the R12 was going to be roughly $250 to $350 as quoted by phone by two diff shops.

This might be the reason I do all my own work except for automatic transmissions and A/C.
 
  #13  
Old 06-18-03, 08:53 PM
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89Blaze....... My suggestion since you said the A/C was new just a few years ago, is have the R12 replaced. Its gonna be way colder than R134a anyway, if done correctly. Anytime you do this conversion you should replace the lines, not clean them. So there is more expense. You are likely to have problems out of the lines after the conversion. I have seen this unfortunately. The prices you quoted about the R12 recharge are pretty much right on the money. You have to figure the labor is pretty much standard at 1.5 hours and they are charging you anywhere from $50 to $75 for the freon and most quotes are set at 3 lbs of freon just for quoting purposes. They arent going to look up your specs just for a quote. Considering the numbers you stated you are probably looking at somewhere around $60 per hour for labor.
Hope this helps with your decision.
Billy

Joe...... why are you always telling EVERYONE their car isnt worth fixin? Thats just wrong man. maybe some people aint wealthy like you and cant afford 6 frikin cars..... Geez man show some tact. Maybe you are not cut out for this job.Sorry im just tired of idiocy.
This is supposed to be a help forum, not a bash the little guy forum.

Billy
 
  #14  
Old 06-18-03, 10:00 PM
knuckles
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I recommended staying with R-12 because it provides the best performance & causes the least amount of problems. It's the best value in the long run.

Most Hondas are poor retrofit candidates due to their overly small condensor size. Some models also use rotary compressors which do NOT take well to the higher high side pressures that will come with R-134a.

Their are many so-called "drop in" replacements. All are bogus as there is no such thing as a 'drop in' replacement for R-12.

Beware of flammable refrigerants such as duracool and envirosafe. These refrigerants contain mostly propane and isobutane. Not what I'd want circulating through my system, especially in the event of a collision or a leak.

I suggest you visit http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrig.../macssubs.html for the EPA's alternative refrigerant rules & regs, as well as a list of "approved" alternatives & their requirements.

If your car is in good condition & truly has only 74K miles, repairing the a/c system & keeping R-12 is the most cost effective long term fix. OEM Honda a/c systems are very tight & work quite well for a LONG time. My great aunt has a 1989 Civic with 33K miles. The a/c still has the OEM R-12 charge & it cools like a new car.
 
  #15  
Old 06-18-03, 10:43 PM
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Knuckles,

It was pure pleasure to hear your r12 recommendation. I stopped preaching it when people stopped listening. I want to pat you on the back and buy you a frosty bottle of Miller Lite.
 
  #16  
Old 06-19-03, 03:35 AM
Joe_F
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Billy:

With all due respect, you're missing the point. First, I was joshing with 89Blazer, and he knows that .

As a moderator here, I have answered over 15,000 posts on this forum, so to say the least, I've been around here for a bit. As have my two comoderators.

I can tell you flat out that some folks will put a dollar into something worth 50 cents and not realize it. I have seen it time and time again. If you're going to put 2 grand into a 3.8 Ford Taurus which is also known for a bad transmission costing 2 grand, you've potentially banked 4,000 into a car worth 1,000 bucks.

You'd be money ahead scrapping the Ford and putting 2 grand into something else. That is economic sense. It should be presented as an option. Sorry, I won't change that. I'll give folks an option. When you become a moderator here, post to suit your style and experience.

As for being "wealthy" and owning six cars, I can tell you:

1) None is newer than 1989;
2) Everyone is paid for;
3) None of them have ever seen a mechanic;
4) I have labored nights, hours, weekends, holidays, etc, on them perfecting them to the best of my knowledge;
5) I maintain them religiously as per the severe service category in all the OEM manuals/maintenance schedule
6) I own the OEM manual for EVERY one of my cars---I also own manuals for appliances, small engines and the like. Information is knowledge, and my house rivals a small public library.

There is a large difference from someone like myself or Knuckles putting major repairs into old heaps versus other folks, because he and I have access to the knowledge, tools, parts (I do), and other things to make it worth it. To the average Joe, he'd be better off pitching the car---sad, but true.

Do the math and you'll simply realize there are cars out there which are a BAD investment to fix. One time, two times, every time.
 
  #17  
Old 06-19-03, 05:59 AM
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Joe...... I believe YOU missed the point. This forum is for do-it-yourselfers! It is not for you or anyone else to ridicule or bash someones project, no matter if it is junk or not. YOU are not the deciding factor as to wether they repair or replace the vehicle they own. You can not possibly for a solid opinion on a particular vehicles condition or life expectancy mererly by a single question. You need to show the folks who come here courtesy, tact and profesionalism, instead of your OPINION clouding your judgement. I do not care how long you have been around or how many times you have replied or "helped" anyone here, this is irrelevant. Your attitude precedes you.
As far as "joshing" with 89Blaze, I am not sure he took your antics the way you supposedly intended. I think you should go back and read the post again, because unless I am blind, he was clearly aggitated and offefnded by your "old heap" comment.
I have only been on this forum for a short time, and in that short period I have seen enough points like this one to turn this post into a whole page or more. But I will digress and drop it at that. Consider this the end of this discussion. I merely wanted to necessitate the need for professionalism in an open forum such as this.
Billy
 
  #18  
Old 06-19-03, 06:33 AM
Joe_F
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Billy:

I didn't miss the point at all---you need to look further at things and understand them from a moderator's point of view---something you are not at this forum.

Knuckles, Davo and myself understand this as we sacrifice our time in and out every day, for free, helping folks on this forum. For no pay. For free. Nights, weekends, holidays. Helping each other---you can ask anyone at this forum who I have helped personally, and there have been many. For the satisfaction of helping a complete stranger save a few bucks.

Your being insensitive to that fact and just dismissing that among other facts such as economics tells me you have missed the big picture.

Fact: Some cars are not worth fixing. As terrible as that sounds. If you love your 1988 Honda, your 1988 Oldsmobile, your 1972 Pinto, your 2003 Honda, your perogative. If it's a heap, it's a heap . I cannot tell a poster what to do. I can however offer my opinion of 15+ years of being in this industry. I have seen good, decent folks throw money at a money pit. It's not a good scene.

I always offer more than just my opinion of whether a vehicle is worth fixing or not. Every post of mine contains a very informative signature file, which took me a long time to do. The forum didn't ask me to do it, I did it on my own. It has benefitted people over 15,000 times on this forum and beyond

Experience dictates alot, Billy. I know you know that .

I agree, the discussion is to be dropped. 89Blazer has what he needs to make a good decision.
 
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