pontiac Grandam quad 4 overheating

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  #1  
Old 06-25-03, 03:59 PM
nightwing
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Angry pontiac Grandam quad 4 overheating

Ok heres my problem i have a pontiac grandam quad4 i believe 2.3 liter As of Now i have had the head gasget replaced the head polished as necesary when replacing the head gasget thermostate changed 3 times now a new radiator put into the car YET IT STILL OVERHEATS!!!!!!!!! conditions summer right now when it over heats when it runs i have to constantly speed up to keep the temperature down on the care Yes you heard it right when looking at the dashboard (for fyi the gauges are shot) it reads about 270 but is actually about 50 degress suposidly cooler anyways when i drive the temperature gauge fluxuates from 0 to 280 i have no idea as to why it is still overheating as i am not a mechanic and am not that verse in car reprarations Any Suggestions or Help would be greatly appreciated as i have lost my mind with this car and am considering taking a sledge hammer and repitidly hitting the car wich would be a shame being that the body has no rust and is in perfect condition (I FORGOT TO ADD that i have had the system completely flushed all lines have been changed and all lines that deal with heating in the engine in general have been likewise cleaned out or changed)
 
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  #2  
Old 06-25-03, 04:13 PM
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Is it really overheating? If the gauge is shot, how do you know it is getting that hot? If it is getting hot and you have to keep up the speed to keep it cool, the fan is not working properly. whoever is doing all this work should be testing the car before 3 thermostats get changed. If not, find a different mechanic.
 
  #3  
Old 06-25-03, 04:18 PM
nightwing
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fan

ok fan has been checked and it cycles when it is needed to keep the engine cool that was checked some diagnostic as to how i know that it is overheating my radiator coolant overflow keeps dumping it out over the overflow cap and i end up with an empty resevoir where there should be radiator fluid any ideas?
 
  #4  
Old 06-25-03, 04:19 PM
darrell McCoy
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Sounds from description, you need a guage that can tell you what temp it is actually running. a flux - reading from 0-280 Almost sounds impossible. Got to see what it is actually running, else you are spinning your wheels trying to fix it. Was the head properly machined and checked for a crack or warpage? Lots of problems with head gaskets on these engines in the past.
 
  #5  
Old 06-25-03, 04:27 PM
nightwing
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Yes i do know that the head was machined properly it was done by the best and reputiable up here where i live i should also add just for information that the axel boot serpantine belt and alternator were also changed at the same time on the car doubt that that could lead to overheating but just the same
 
  #6  
Old 06-25-03, 04:35 PM
nightwing
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found paperwork

ok EVERYTHING DONE TO THIS CAR

Head Gasket head set head bolts antifreeze tensioner thermostat crank case hose crank case heayer ho

maintenance tune lube oil and filter

serpentine belt

alternator

trans fluid

serp belt tensioner

plug boots

axel boot right outer

radiator

water pump
 
  #7  
Old 06-25-03, 06:06 PM
darrell McCoy
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OK, if overflow tank is bubbling or blowing out, sounds like you still have a gasket leak, pressurizing the coolant system. Simple solution, You need to have the system pressure checked, else see if you can rent or find the equipment and do it yourself. I think you are getting combustion gas in the system.
 
  #8  
Old 06-25-03, 06:08 PM
nightwing
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ill see about that though i do not know if that is the case thank you though
 
  #9  
Old 06-25-03, 07:44 PM
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There is 1 thing I don't see mentioned, and is often overlooked..The radiator cap.. Have it checked to see if it holds the proper amount of pressure..
I do agree that it's important to get an accurate guage to see exactly how hot the car is really running...Can't afford to get it too hot, or you'll definately be redoing the head gasket again!
 
  #10  
Old 06-26-03, 02:51 AM
Joe_F
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I agree with Darrell and MsArgent. Throw the cap away, if the vehicle overheated, everything in the cooling system is questionable. A cap is cheap insurance.

Darrell is right, you have to get to the bottom of it all. Unfortunately, you are kinda sunk in this thing because of the expense you've put into it thus far. These cars are really not worth repairing. The gasket will blow again, and again, and again. Poor design .
 
  #11  
Old 06-26-03, 07:49 AM
nightwing
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would changing the entire engine solve the problem of the gasket or woul that just be putting more money where it is not needed?
 
  #12  
Old 06-26-03, 08:10 AM
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You really need to find out what the problem is. You will be wasteing any more money until you find the true caus of the overheating. If it happens to be the gasket or cracked head, you can get that fixed 5 times for what you will sped on an engine. Like i suggested before, you might want to get a second opinion from another mechanic...
 
  #13  
Old 06-26-03, 08:21 AM
darrell McCoy
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A rebuilt would only temp solve problem. Do a little research on that engine and you will have a better understanding of this demon. Bad from day one, some had extended warranties but they just kept pumping those engines out and then left a guy holding the bag of repairs and woes. I'd take the rebuilt engine money and put it toward another vehicle. If engine is bad, unload the whole car, regardless. I would still get to the cause of your problem before you make a decision. Maybe a rad cap but unlikely. Have system pressurized and then go from there. You can probably get the test equip from autozone or a rad shop would check it for you for a minimum fee. Only takes a few minutes.
 
  #14  
Old 06-26-03, 08:35 AM
nightwing
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i myself would invest in a new car if not still paying on this demon as it is that was why i was wondering about a new engine say a straight 4 thought that probabbly involves alot too
 
  #15  
Old 06-26-03, 08:54 AM
Joe_F
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As noted, find the cause of the problem. If a coolant check reveals a blown gasket, back to the guy that did the work and ask for a free repair. Shouldn't happen so soon.
 
  #16  
Old 06-26-03, 09:59 PM
nightwing
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well so far the mechanic has repaired the car 3 times at his own cost so as to if hes good or not i would say so to do something like this and repair it at his own cost is preaty good. Anyways up to date on it the gasket is fine so is the head as is the fan thinking that it is somewhere along the lines of the thermostate (planning on removing and driving without it to see if temperature build up happens or not) if not that possible somethign inside head deteriorating and clogging collant tubes
 
  #17  
Old 06-30-03, 10:08 AM
nightwing
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sorry about that here is the original post my fault ok thermostate taken out after all the above done and it still overheats any ideas???
 
  #18  
Old 06-30-03, 10:21 AM
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Did you ever get a temp gauge that works?
 
  #19  
Old 06-30-03, 10:37 AM
nightwing
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yes but as i said still when running without the thermostate it overheats still and i am very confused
 
  #20  
Old 06-30-03, 11:23 AM
Joe_F
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How do you know the gasket and head are good? Have the guy check it with a gas analyzer or cooling system analyzer. If HC is found in the coolant, the gasket or head is wasted again
 
  #21  
Old 06-30-03, 03:28 PM
nightwing
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were ahead of you on that much joe yes they have done another analysis on the head and gasket they detected no leaks there was no gas's in the coolent ect. i dont remeber what they called it but now they are as baffled as i am they even did a dye check to see about other leaks any ideas as to what it might be *im going off a whim but its probbably close to home could possible be that the engine block is screwed up???*
 
  #22  
Old 06-30-03, 04:48 PM
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Did you ever get the radiator cap checked?
 
  #23  
Old 06-30-03, 08:24 PM
nightwing
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NOT THAT I AM TRYING TO SOUND SARCASTIC OR ANYTHING BUT YES I GOT THAT FRIGGIN CAP CHECKED LIKE 5 TIMES EVERYTHING PEOPLE KEEP ON SAYING HAS BEEN CHECKED 5 TIMES IM SORRY FOR BEING BLUNT BUT THIS IS FRUSTRATING NOT ONLY HAS ALL THE ABOVE LISTED FIXED BEEN CHECKED RECHECKED RERECHECKED RERERECHECKED BUT IT ALL CHECKS OUT OK IM ASKING DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS OTHER THAT THAT LISETED AND COVERED ABOVE??? PLEASE I NEED THE HELP I HAVE NO IDEA AND AM TOTALLY BAFFLED
 
  #24  
Old 06-30-03, 09:48 PM
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maybe a few things to check(i'm not replying because of your screaming last post)

-some engines, like a chrysler 2.2/2.5 have different year belt configurations, some years the water pump spins clockwise, some years it spins counter-clockwise on the same styled engine, one is driven by a v-belt, the other is driven by a serp. belt, mixing up the two pumps WILL cause it to overheat and you can't tell by looking at it, you HAVE to compare the internal fins from the old one to the new one, it wouldn't be the first time a pump was boxed wrong.

-i knew someone who owned a late 80's firebird, that ran hot all the time, when he reinstalled the front air-dam the temp dropped so low, he almost didn't have heat it ran so cool, the air would fly right under the car and bypass the radiator until the dam forced a steady airflow through it.

-ever think of 'calling' a dealer and talking to a foreman, maybe they've seen one or two of these cars before and might have a suggestion that can help(be pleasant and tell him everything that's been done)

-not to knock on the any shop, but three strikes and your out, a reputable shop might get a good name by finishing brake jobs on time, tune-ups, alignments, new tires or struts when promised, but with a rare oddball engine like this, maybe they've never seen this kind of car before and don't know any better or are hoping you'll take it somewhere else. i wouldn't take a head off three times unless i knew for a fact the gasket was bad, and the second time it would be getting a remanufactured head, some heads like on neons are NOT recommended to be resurfaced at all, it doesn't mean someone can't do it, but they 'might' have the problem you are having, who knows?

- i know a few people who 'slip' head gaskets in, take a few bolts out, pry the head up an inch, slide the old one out and the new one in, this leaves gasket parts on the head and block, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but they still take the chance.

-some thermostats in different applications have unique ones, when they open at 195F, they also close off a bypass port in the same action(cadillac), some discount parts stores will give you anything that comes close to your car, sure it fits in the hole(close enough) but it isn't doing both functions, a dealer will almost always sell you the correct part(going by the vin number)

- if there's no HYDROCARBONS in the coolant(as measured by an emissions tester), it's not a headgasket, period! it's in the cooling system, not removing heat. hydrocarbons are/is gasoline and the only way it can get to the antifreeze is a bad gasket or bad head, NO other way.

some things for you to check. (can i help you with the sledge hammer if it comes to that, i have a 16 pounder!)
 
  #25  
Old 07-01-03, 03:22 AM
Joe_F
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Original poster: Crack it down a notch please. We know it's frustrating!!

Mike gave you some EXCELLENT advice because all of what he said is very true.

NEVER ASSUME something was done. Think about it. This guy has seen your car and again and again. At this point, he could tell you anything. "Yea, we checked that". His hope? Shoot, you'll go away and just give up. Every minute he spends on your car is lost time---something he'd rather not do. Giving him the benefit of the doubt is noble, but something's being missed here.

Be there when he checks it. ASK him how these items were checked. Post back and tell us what he tells you. A lot of folks believe just because parts are new, they can't be defective. Hogwash. They can and are. Yes, even GM ones, I have had it happen to me.

THROW THE RADIATOR CAP AWAY!!! The cap is $20 at most. The vehicle has overheated, the cap may be useless. It is cheap insurance to change it! Try the simple stuff first. If the cap solves the problem, shoot, I'd be back at this guy's shop in a huff!

Mike is 100% right about missing air dams. On the model he's talking about, the dam is CRITICAL to prevent overheating.

Remember, we are not at the machine and can't be the eyes and ears of the operation. Only you can .
 
  #26  
Old 07-01-03, 04:40 PM
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Nightwing, I surely didn't mean to irritate you!! I was reading the posts, and didn't see (and I surely might have missed it) that you;d had it checked... I have had overheating problems drive me nuts, only to find a faulty cap..At thsi point, I respectfully bow out of the thread.. You've already got good advise, and I can add nothing further... No hard feelings here!
 
  #27  
Old 07-01-03, 06:39 PM
Joe_F
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MSA:

Why? You've given just as good of suggestions as the rest of us .

The original poster is very frustrated, and somewhat rightfully so. He/she paid for a repair and still has a broken/overheated vehicle.

Seemingly the shop is not able to figure out why, yet they have charged this poster. Seems like something is being missed in my opinion.

Certain parts are throwaway items when you do cooling system service---especially when there's an overheating condition. The cap would have been the first thing I pitched for a new GM one!
 
  #28  
Old 07-02-03, 12:35 AM
nightwing
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hey argent you should not bow out all your guys help has been helpfull i let my frustration get to me and i apologize im still working on the problem and am going to see what is up with all the checks they have done i might run to a nother shop to have a test for gasget leak done though maybe the guy is screwing that up or something other than that im at a loss still ill keep posting up dates and appreciate any and all advice so please do keep posting it in the long run is helping it keeps my mind flowing with ideas thank you all
 
  #29  
Old 07-02-03, 12:44 AM
nightwing
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i thank you mark for you ideas and one of them seems really plausable and i will deffinatly have that one checked out and YES you can help me if it comes to a sledge hamer lol as to the idea that really sticks to my mind is this my car is driven by a serpentine belt well in that situation for heating what not so then it would be a different pump as you said and quite possible that is differnt i did just have the pump changed because it went bad so quite possible and most likely it is it im not goin to say it is because i dont know yet but i am checking that out first and formost this would be one of the most simplest ideas in the world and one quite that i would overlook I THANK YOU MUCH FOR YOUR INPUT
 
  #30  
Old 07-02-03, 05:25 AM
darrell McCoy
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nightwing:
I have mentioned this on other post at various times, but if you take the waterpump off, just for curiousity, see if the impeller is possibly spinning some on the shaft under a load. Very rare, but I have seen this happen. Guy brought me a jeep one time, ran him nuts and he changed everything but the pump. Seeing he had changed everything else I removed the pump and walllaaa. Impeller was slipping on shaft.
 
  #31  
Old 07-02-03, 06:17 AM
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Cracked overflow tank.

Radiator coolent overflow tanks will not bubble over unless they are overfilled (or there is a head gasket leak). You said both, that the overfilled has bubbled out, and it is empty. If one sees an empty overflow, one may logically conclude an incorrect cause.

Here's my point. Your problem could be as simple as a leaking overflow tank. A misdiagnosed overflow crack can lead to endless efforts trying to find the problem where none exist. Pour water in the tank one evening and peek in the morning to see if it is still there.
 
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