89 Toyota Truck lost compression on cylinder 3

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  #1  
Old 07-09-03, 05:41 PM
tjkwak
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89 Toyota Truck lost compression on cylinder 3

Hello,

I have a 89 Toyota Pickup 4x4 SR5 2.4l 4 cylinder.
It was running well and passed emissions a month ago.
Then it wouldn't start in the Home Depot parking lot.

It would crank but very fast.

I had it towed to the shop, and they agreed
that the problem was the timing chain.

Now to the fun part.

After they replaced the timing chain and cover with a new kit.
(Was told the old chain had come off )

The engine has now lost compression on cylinder 3

Does this problem have any correlation with the
timing chain?

Could the timing chain have damaged the valve?

Is this an inteference engine? 2.4l 4 cylinder

Is there anything that they could be missing?

Could this truck run on only 3 cylinders?

Thanks in advance.
Tony
 
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  #2  
Old 07-09-03, 06:06 PM
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i don't know if it's an interferance engine or not, i heard some manufacturers use a chain when it is interferance and a timing belt when it isn't interferance, the one i work for definitely is not $though$.


have them do a leakdown test to see where the compression is going, there is a big difference between LOW compression and NO compression, have them tell you the readings. also the leakdown test has to be done with the valve cover OFF and the rocker arms backed all the way off, sometimes just a tight valve adjustment will cause a low cylinder.

yes a car will usually run for a long time on three cylinders. depending on how low the compression is, it can just idle rough, but run fine at highway speed, or it can run terrible ALL the time, depends on the amount of damage.


if it is a bent valve, sometimes if it's bent real bad, you can see it when the valve cover is removed, look for the rocker arm with the 1/4" of clearance when all the rest are .010"
 
  #3  
Old 07-09-03, 06:48 PM
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
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That engine will bend valves when the chain jumps
Good advise by mike

Larry
 
  #4  
Old 07-09-03, 08:12 PM
tjkwak
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Thanks for the information.

Do you think they should have checked the valves
for damage, before starting work on the timing chain?

It is an expensive repair to replace the timing chain.


Thanks again.

Tony
 
  #5  
Old 07-09-03, 08:16 PM
tjkwak
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Also how much to fix/replace the valves?

Thanks

Tony
 
  #6  
Old 07-09-03, 08:49 PM
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hint: not cheap


sometimes it's not too easy to check for slightly bent ones, but it's something that should be checked as soon as the chain/(or belt) is reinstalled with a compression/leakdown test, which is where you are right now, you should have also been made aware of this possibility BEFORE you sunk any money into a timing chain.
 
  #7  
Old 07-09-03, 09:19 PM
Joe_F
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The timing chain and front cover gazorch are one of the sore spots on the 22RE 2.4L. Pretty solid engine overall.

Yes, the shop should have caught this when they did the timing chain.

In lieu of that, you may be able to get a rebuilt cylinder head quite reasonably. One company out of California, Marnal is the name seems to be pretty good.
 
  #8  
Old 07-10-03, 07:03 PM
tjkwak
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Thanks for all the good advise.

I got an estimate to replace the valves on cylinder
3 for 8.8 hours of labor + parts. ($650 total)

Is that estimate reasonable?

would it be better to get the rebuilt cylinder head?
$450 complete with valves and springs. ( www.marnal.com)
How much labor would be needed to install it.

Thanks again.
Tony
 
  #9  
Old 07-10-03, 08:36 PM
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i guess that's an average price, maybe lower than what i would see(in a dealer)

when they are giving you an estimate, they are asking you if you will pay xx amount of dollars to fix it, (meaning sometimes negotiable) if you're a cool person who is always nice to the people at the counter and to the people who actually work on it, perhaps bring in a dozen doughnuts for everyone once in a while, maybe if you ask very nicely if they can help you out a little because in this circumstance they just had the engine apart, maybe, maybe they will cut the labor down a little, but don't expect it!

rebuilt/remanufactured heads can be good or bad, you can get one that was problem free, just freshened up--or you can have one that is all welded up because it was severly cracked and warped, nobody knows the truth. i also read the warranty policy and nowhere does it say they will reimburse the shop performing the labor to replace a warranty cylinder head, someone has to pay the technician to work on it, it's either marnal(not) or you if there is a problem with it, like a crack that only shows up when the head is all warmed up

my vote: have a good machine shop selected by the shop already working on your truck to just do a good valve job, that way it's between THEM if there's a problem, not on you.
 
  #10  
Old 07-11-03, 06:39 AM
Joe_F
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True. Either way is fine. In many cases, you'll have to file a labor claim with the company if it's their fault and you have to pay double labor.

Marnal is one of only a few companies that do rebuilt cylinder heads. It was the first one that came to my mind .
 
  #11  
Old 07-21-03, 01:03 PM
tjkwak
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Unhappy Got the truck back, now oil pressure gauge is not working

Hello,

I got the truck back, it has a new timing chain and cover.

Also 3 intake valves got replaced.

It seems to be running very well.

One problem though.
The oil pressure gauge is not working anymore,
it was working before.

I had the mechanic come over to the truck.
He looked and listened to the truck and said that it was safe
to drive.

He pointed to where the oil pressure sending unit wire
was plugged into the harness.

He told me to come back later for his technicain to
look at it.

How can I verify that the truck has oil pressure?
How do I attach a mechanical oil pressure gauge?

Thanks again,
Tony
 
  #12  
Old 07-21-03, 01:08 PM
Joe_F
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The sending unit is likely bad---any part store would have a replacement.

You would remove the sender and attach a mechanical gauge in its place to check for oil pressure.
 
  #13  
Old 07-21-03, 07:27 PM
tjkwak
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replaced the sender, no change

I swapped out the sender with an aftermarket sender.

It did not fix the problem.

How does the sender/ gauge work?

Is there a way to test the gauge by itself?

THanks again,
Tony
 
  #14  
Old 07-21-03, 09:43 PM
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first, what's the difference between the mechanic and the technician who looked at but couldn't fix your truck.

second, i'm glad to hear that it's fixed, finally.


third, unplugging the wire will usually send the guage to zero, grounding the wire will usually send the guage to full, try that with a jumper wire, if it does go all the way up, it can only be a sender unit, probably the wrong one they gave you, the one for a light is different than one for a guage.

if the guage still stays at zero(when grounded, key on), look for a broken wire where they were working, or, the connector got spread a little, try tightening it with pliers and see if it works now
 
  #15  
Old 07-22-03, 03:43 AM
Joe_F
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Agreed, was it the right sender?
 
  #16  
Old 07-22-03, 06:06 AM
tjkwak
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The mechanic is the owner(he did'nt work on the truck),

the technician was the guy who fixed the engine problems,
but is out of town for a few days.

The aftermarket sending unit has the same single connecter as the original unit (flat round plate where you slide the connecter)

The aftermarket sender has a pressure hole that is alot smaller
than the original unit.

The aftermarket sender I am pretty sure is for a gauge not
for a light.

Thanks,
Tony
 
  #17  
Old 07-22-03, 06:40 AM
Joe_F
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Do as Mike suggested first.

Barring that, I'd get an OEM sender. Make sure the wiring didn't get pinched during the repairs.
 
  #18  
Old 07-22-03, 07:48 AM
tjkwak
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The gauge does not work when you ground the gauge wire
or if you set it to 12V.

So it looks like the problem is on the gauge side/wiring
side.

I guess I will try to rewire and see what happens.

Thanks,

Tony
 
  #19  
Old 07-22-03, 09:58 AM
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,531
Hold up!

Never ground the signal wire on a Toyota gage, you will burn out the gage. You have to use the resistance of a test lite to ground the sender wire.

I have never changed a gage type sender on a Toyota except for leaks.

Have to think if it was working before the head was removed they had to do something to it. Very easy to forget the sender wire when removing the head. The harness goes with the head while the sender is on the block. Maybe they pulled on the wire and it broken inside?

Larry
 
  #20  
Old 07-22-03, 08:42 PM
tjkwak
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Oil Pressure Gauge not plugged in

Hello,

I found that the wire leading from the sending unit does
not appear to be plugged in.

Where does the oil pressure sending unit wires get
plugged into the instrument panel. I can't locate
the plug for it.

From the lenght of the wire, it would be somewhere around
the middle (left to right),
towards the back (front to back) of the engine compartment.

it is a 2.4 22RE engine.

Thanks,
Tony
 
  #21  
Old 07-22-03, 08:54 PM
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whew! my heart stopped there for a second, i thought i contributed to the guage getting zapped. i never heard of that for a toyota guage, i guess i'll just limit my technical answers to dodge and isuzu from now on. if it was working before the head came off, now it doesn't, it's obviously something they did, like not hooked up, or wire forgot to get unplugged and stretched like larry just said, i would look there or let them look there. sorry
 
  #22  
Old 07-22-03, 09:00 PM
Joe_F
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Do you have a plug dangling or a bare wire there?
 
  #23  
Old 07-23-03, 04:48 AM
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,531
That wire comes from the harness for the head. It runs between the plenum and the head. I think some where near the middle wires drop down between the runners. Should consist of oil sender wire, starter and knock sensor (if equipped).

Larry
 
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